BREGZIT (GE 2019) - Labour - the average household spends £2k p/a on rail season tickets.

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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    pblakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:

    Same could be said of the Telegraph ;)

    New World Order conspiracy theories are much older than Wikipedia.
    Which takes me to my point.
    You disbelieve right wing rags. But left wing rags say the EU will ruin us too. Different stories, same end.

    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
    Please enlighten me to a centre politics publication?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    pblakeney wrote:
    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
    Please enlighten me to a centre politics publication?
    Nope?
    I can't think of any worthwhile ones either.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    pblakeney wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
    Please enlighten me to a centre politics publication?
    Nope?
    I can't think of any worthwhile ones either.

    Sorry I thought you were joking, given, yknow, "centre" still sits on your one dimensional axis.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    pblakeney wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
    Please enlighten me to a centre politics publication?
    Nope?
    I can't think of any worthwhile ones either.

    Sorry I thought you were joking, given, yknow, "centre" still sits on your one dimensional axis.
    No. I take all information from all sources.
    And tend to find flaws as they are all lean one way or the other. Guardian one side, Telegraph the other. Any neutrals?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    pblakeney wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Might come as a shock to you but the political world is a little more complex than a one dimensional 'left-right' scenario.
    Please enlighten me to a centre politics publication?
    Nope?
    I can't think of any worthwhile ones either.

    Sorry I thought you were joking, given, yknow, "centre" still sits on your one dimensional axis.
    No. I take all information from all sources.
    And tend to find flaws as they are all lean one way or the other. Guardian one side, Telegraph the other. Any neutrals?

    Mate, you're missing the point. I was saying that there is more to politics than sliding along a spectrum of left-to-right.

    That's it. I'm not interested in plotting which paper or publication sits on that one axis. Guess what, people can be pro or against Europe for any number of reasons which will colour how vehemently pro or against they are and they will have any number of ideals or what is best or not; and that can sit anywhere along your one axis.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    That's it. I'm not interested in plotting which paper or publication sits on that one axis. Guess what, people can be pro or against Europe for any number of reasons which will colour how vehemently pro or against they are and they will have any number of ideals or what is best or not; and that can sit anywhere along your one axis.
    You are missing my point too. It is not my axis.
    When the vote comes the sheeple will vote according to what they are being told. I therefore predict an out vote.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    It's fairly close to call. Betting odds have stay as slim favourites, and let's face it, neither campaign has picked up in earnest.

    The Cameron renegotiation is a tricky complication ahead of the debate but it will come out in the wash towards crunch time.

    Britain is naturally small c conservative and tends to opt for the status quo for big decisions.

    Brexit's main problem campaign wise is it's full of frothy mouthed idealists. Brits tend not to vote for them; they tend to vote for the more level headed 'we'll muddle through' type politicians. It's the same argument people hold against Corbyn, and it's a fair one.

    Stunts like this: 3500.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=d2f8d19fa8ebec7dbd64a6b48045d01e will tend to put people off - plucky sure, but silly and too keen by half.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    Britain is naturally small c conservative and tends to opt for the status quo for big decisions.
    That will depend on how the issues are laid out.
    It could be argued that the EU is changing so an exit would be the status quo for the UK.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    No.

    Staying in is status quo. Leaving isn't.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    No.

    Staying in is status quo. Leaving isn't.
    If you think that the EU is stable and not evolving, then that will be your view.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • I reckon we'll leave. Cameron is fannying around, knowing that we he goes to the people, he can claim he did his best. But he will lose, resign and take a peerage. Then Osbo can take over.
    Ultimately, it boils down to foreigners. The UK has never really got this EU thing. Yeah, it's useful if it means quicker transitions through the ferry ports, and buying beer/wine at Euro prices is great :wink:
    But, ultimately, Brits don't like foreigners. Some are tolerated. Especially if they come here with their own money. The Brits do respect money. Even my elderly neighbours, for whom this means little, are scared of the numbers of people coming here. Or so they told Mrs BBG when they cornered her the other day.
    FWIW, I do not believe this. I believe we should stay in. And play a full part in this EU project. Take it over, in effect. If only to annoy the French.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    pblakeney wrote:
    No.

    Staying in is status quo. Leaving isn't.
    If you think that the EU is stable and not evolving, then that will be your view.

    That's not what i said.
  • pblakeney wrote:
    No.

    Staying in is status quo. Leaving isn't.
    If you think that the EU is stable and not evolving, then that will be your view.

    That's not what i said.
    I'm not sure any EU politician/state would say "job done". The fact it's evolving gives it it's momentum. Unlike the UK.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    edited January 2016
    Does anyone know where the UK 's borders are likely to be?
    at the mo, they are in French ports but presumably, they d move to UK ports?

    So a migrant problem in Calais becomes a UK one? cant see the french allowing the status quo.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    mamba80 wrote:
    Does anyone know where the UK 's orders are likely to be?
    .

    What does this mean? What orders?
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    mamba80 wrote:
    Does anyone know where the UK 's orders are likely to be?
    .

    What does this mean? What orders?

    *borders :)
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,616
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • Mr Goo wrote:

    yes and totally predictable, the EU cannot give away too much or other euro sceptic countries will threaten to leave.

    whether its this or google tax fiasco, DC and Tories will claim what a great deal for UK :roll:
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,815
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,616
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.
    As for Europe, CaMORON is using the benefits system as a means to control immigration - WRONG!
    Strict Border Controls are used to control immigration. Something completely lacking in UK and Europe.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    Mr Goo, who is the UK border force failing to keep out in your opinion, and how many of those have they let through?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    I ask because who it is depends on if the EU has say over it or not.

    There's a good case for free movement of labour within the economic area which is textbook economics.

    If it's non EU citizens the EU has nothing to do with it.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,616
    I ask because who it is depends on if the EU has say over it or not.

    There's a good case for free movement of labour within the economic area which is textbook economics.

    If it's non EU citizens the EU has nothing to do with it.

    Well it looks like CaMORON has failed to deliver a single promise on his new deal for the UK in the EU.

    As for immigration MR Rick, it is actually the free movement of non professionals, especially from the new states that is causing a problem.
    How many super market car washers does the UK actually need?
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    I ask because who it is depends on if the EU has say over it or not.

    There's a good case for free movement of labour within the economic area which is textbook economics.

    If it's non EU citizens the EU has nothing to do with it.

    If a business gave a salary to anyone who walked in the door and demanded a job then the business would rapidly go bankrupt. Anyone can see this. Businesses pick people with the skills they require as and when they are required. Nobody objects to this so why the objection to a nation doing the same? If a nation accepts anyone regardless of whether they are needed while the businesses within only accept people who are needed then you will just have an oversupply and unemployed people.

    It is unlikely there will ever be a shortage of people who want to come here so we can take people as and when they are needed. The task is for businesses to make it known when there are skills shortages and inform authorities.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    Mr Goo wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Sure we aren't the US/China, but we still have the 5th/6th biggest economy in the world (depending on measure) and that definitely gives us a place on the world stage comparable to the other countries that fill out the top 10.

    The people who make these kind of statements seem to be very keen to play Britain down, which I think is unfair.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,616
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Sure we aren't the US/China, but we still have the 5th/6th biggest economy in the world (depending on measure) and that definitely gives us a place on the world stage comparable to the other countries that fill out the top 10.

    The people who make these kind of statements seem to be very keen to play Britain down, which I think is unfair.

    Not playing GB down at all. But this government and the previous have harped on about the country being 'world leaders' in various facets of industry and life. Why the obsession with this small country trying to be number 1 all the time?
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,783 Lives Here
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Sure we aren't the US/China, but we still have the 5th/6th biggest economy in the world (depending on measure) and that definitely gives us a place on the world stage comparable to the other countries that fill out the top 10.

    The people who make these kind of statements seem to be very keen to play Britain down, which I think is unfair.

    What do you think is the manifestation of having a "place on the world stage"??

    What does that mean practically?
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Sure we aren't the US/China, but we still have the 5th/6th biggest economy in the world (depending on measure) and that definitely gives us a place on the world stage comparable to the other countries that fill out the top 10.

    The people who make these kind of statements seem to be very keen to play Britain down, which I think is unfair.

    What do you think is the manifestation of having a "place on the world stage"??

    What does that mean practically?

    I did write a much longer post but deleted most of it as I was only trying to make a small point and I didn't want to get sucked into it... The point I was trying to make is that if you take some people's views at face value, Britain is some tiny irrelevance and we should be pursuing some sort of isolationist policy which I don't agree with (particularly isolationism).

    I personally feel the UK government has done OK on a global level (e.g., our position in the EU, G8, Nato, and joining initiatives such as the Asian infrastructure bank and so forth) but I am sure that plenty of people would disagree.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,616
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I wonder if Westminster finally realises it's place in the EU?
    And the World come to that. The days of being a World power are gone.

    The UK shouldn't even be attempting to be a world power. There are plenty of countries that thrive without having to dine at the top table.

    I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Sure we aren't the US/China, but we still have the 5th/6th biggest economy in the world (depending on measure) and that definitely gives us a place on the world stage comparable to the other countries that fill out the top 10.

    The people who make these kind of statements seem to be very keen to play Britain down, which I think is unfair.

    What do you think is the manifestation of having a "place on the world stage"??

    What does that mean practically?

    I did write a much longer post but deleted most of it as I was only trying to make a small point and I didn't want to get sucked into it... The point I was trying to make is that if you take some people's views at face value, Britain is some tiny irrelevance and we should be pursuing some sort of isolationist policy which I don't agree with (particularly isolationism).

    I personally feel the UK government has done OK on a global level (e.g., our position in the EU, G8, Nato, and joining initiatives such as the Asian infrastructure bank and so forth) but I am sure that plenty of people would disagree.

    I really do not think that our position within the EU has improved at all after CaMORON's failed attempts this week. Everything that the country now wants to do (control immigration, reduce benefits etc etc) now appears to be decided by a vote by the leaders of the member states. They are not going to say OK are they?

    A few months ago I was actually coming around to voting to stay in the EU. If only for the protection of the average Joe/Josephine worker. To ensure that they were not exploited. Now I will vote to leave, simply because CaMORON has failed on all fronts, is lying about the strength the UK has within Brussels, and mainly now as a protest.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
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