BREGZIT (GE 2019) - Labour - the average household spends £2k p/a on rail season tickets.

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Posts

  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    Looks like I was ahead of George Osbourne on this one.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35249887
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    edited January 2016
    The big guns are jumping in now. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan all pumping massive $$$ into the in campaign. Notice how news outlets such as Sky run an article about them for a day before it gets buried. As if its obligatory to report on it but just not for too long or people might notice that government is bought by business. And don't forget business only has its own interests in mind not the interest of the 'millions' of people with jobs dependent on the EU. Not to mention they are American businesses!
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    the EU is finished, their complete inability to address millions of the worlds poor coming into europe will ensure we leave, their only response is to try and enforce refugee quotas across the EU....... fantastic!

    the UK will vote OUT regardless of anything big business says.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 13,026
    mamba80 wrote:
    the EU is finished, their complete inability to address millions of the worlds poor coming into europe will ensure we leave, their only response is to try and enforce refugee quotas across the EU....... fantastic!

    the UK will vote OUT regardless of anything big business says.

    I find myself in agreement with Mamba. The latest refugee debacle is just another example of the EU, for all its delusions of being a world power, of being shown up for what it is. A talking shop, hamstrung to take decisive action.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    earth wrote:
    The big guns are jumping in now. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan all pumping massive $$$ into the in campaign. Notice how news outlets such as Sky run an article about them for a day before it gets buried. As if its obligatory to report on it but just not for too long or people might notice that government is bought by business. And don't forget business only has its own interests in mind not the interest of the 'millions' of people with jobs dependent on the EU. Not to mention they are American businesses!

    Plenty of jobs depend on their success or failure too.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    earth wrote:
    The big guns are jumping in now. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan all pumping massive $$$ into the in campaign. Notice how news outlets such as Sky run an article about them for a day before it gets buried. As if its obligatory to report on it but just not for too long or people might notice that government is bought by business. And don't forget business only has its own interests in mind not the interest of the 'millions' of people with jobs dependent on the EU. Not to mention they are American businesses!

    Plenty of jobs depend on their success or failure too.

    i dont doubt that, but unless you are directly employed in an industry with bases in holland or germany, people dont see it, what they see is the EU is being invaded and thats what it is.

    i listened to a Radio 4 program yesterday, a very intelligent and well meaning Dr was talking of her success over many months and years that ONE Kosovan refugee was now crime free and what a success this was, well it is and she talked a lot of sense but who has paid for that?
    there is a finite resource of money in this country and with the best will in the world we cannot take every person with a war torn childhood and fix them up.

    Myself and Bally come from opposite ends of the political spectrum but there is such a thing as common sense and what we'll do here is eventually become some sort of fortress europe that will mean that people who really do need help and refuge wont get.
    europeans have also turned on minorities before and i d not like to see a repeat of that either.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    For the last time, EU has no say over non-EU immigration laws other than to be vaguely humane.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    earth wrote:
    The big guns are jumping in now. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan all pumping massive $$$ into the in campaign. Notice how news outlets such as Sky run an article about them for a day before it gets buried. As if its obligatory to report on it but just not for too long or people might notice that government is bought by business. And don't forget business only has its own interests in mind not the interest of the 'millions' of people with jobs dependent on the EU. Not to mention they are American businesses!

    Plenty of jobs depend on their success or failure too.

    On this, FT reports 30,000 London employees for the big 5 is investment arms. So it's not insignificant.
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    earth wrote:
    The big guns are jumping in now. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan all pumping massive $$$ into the in campaign. Notice how news outlets such as Sky run an article about them for a day before it gets buried. As if its obligatory to report on it but just not for too long or people might notice that government is bought by business. And don't forget business only has its own interests in mind not the interest of the 'millions' of people with jobs dependent on the EU. Not to mention they are American businesses!

    Plenty of jobs depend on their success or failure too.

    On this, FT reports 30,000 London employees for the big 5 is investment arms. So it's not insignificant.

    A few thoughts on that. It is the big London financials that are throwing money at the in campaign so they are just protecting their interests. Of those 30,000 employees how many are from overseas and may well decide to leave if they no longer have a job? My point is they are in finance and will find other employment here or abroad easily and therefore will not be a burden.

    Regardless of who they are and their motives there is no arguing that they contribute to the economy and that contribution will be missed. But then their influence on this country has hardly lead to prosperity for all has is it?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    I know everyone imagines all employees of IBs to be big d!ck swingers in expensive suits and porches but they sit at the top of a very big pyramid of people in middle & back office and support functions. There aren't many of them, even the high earners who have the will or inclination to relocate. This has literally been my job for 5 years so I know a bit about this.

    Don't forget FS is the jewel in the UK economy. It's what car making is to Germany.

    Roughly 10% of GDP.
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    Don't forget FS is the jewel in the UK economy. It's what car making is to Germany.

    Roughly 10% of GDP.

    It is a jewel it's just a shame we don't have more jewels. While it is no doubt too big to lose and too big to fail we are only just keeping our necks above water and given so much hinges on FS it has a disproportionate amount of power.
  • earthearth Posts: 934
    Don't the FS feel a bit under pressure? I know when I worked for a company where my department was the only one making any money, the management were always pushing for changes to eek out even more from us. This made me feel uncomfortable because I knew any wrong move could break the department and then no body would be making any money.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    well, i doubt anyone, out side of London, will care one jot about FS, its meaningless to the vast majority of people regardless of its undoubted value.

    the vote will almost certainly be decided on immigration, people dont really see the difference between non and EU migration - its a subject that anyone can see the EU has completely lost control over, Schengen and Dublin convention are in tatters and UN predicts another 1 million plus will cross into EU this year.

    Should UK vote to leave, let alone another Paris style attack, i suspect it ll be the beginning of the end as more will try and leave too.
  • Still not sure how leaving the EU will stop people coming here?
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    earth wrote:
    Don't the FS feel a bit under pressure? I know when I worked for a company where my department was the only one making any money, the management were always pushing for changes to eek out even more from us. This made me feel uncomfortable because I knew any wrong move could break the department and then no body would be making any money.

    Under pressure by what?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    mamba80 wrote:
    well, i doubt anyone, out side of London, will care one jot about FS, its meaningless to the vast majority of people regardless of its undoubted value.

    the vote will almost certainly be decided on immigration, people dont really see the difference between non and EU migration - its a subject that anyone can see the EU has completely lost control over, Schengen and Dublin convention are in tatters and UN predicts another 1 million plus will cross into EU this year.

    Should UK vote to leave, let alone another Paris style attack, i suspect it ll be the beginning of the end as more will try and leave too.

    Outside of London it still averages 4% of GDP, and bear in mind London has 9 million inhabitants - more than Finland, so it's not so easily discounted.

    Within London it's 18% of output.

    FS is just one example, but a big one, that will likely be negatively affected by a Brexit. After all, what London has over 'tax friendly' Switzerland, other than being a place under 30s want to live, is the fact it's part of the EU, and there are a bunch of bilateral financial trade agreements the Swiss couldn't negotiate with the EU but the UK can due to being part of it.

    Bottom line is the Brexit lot can't even agree on what Britain does after the Brexit. Britain hasn't made a bilateral agreement in 40 years, and most people expect them to take 5 years.

    I don't see why the EU would grant the UK the same access to free markets etc, unless the UK pays for it.

    What you see in Norway is they pay to be included in it, have to comply to the rules anyway, and then have no say over what those rules are.

    In Switzerland it's similar, only they don't want to comply as much, so they don't get quite the same access (hence my example above).

    Ultimately if you want to trade with Europe - and a fair part of UK commerce will, they'll have to play by EU rules anyway - just like Chinese companies do, just like US companies do etc. Only, they won't have a say.

    Brexit is an emotional move - staying in is being level headed.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    Don't forget FS is the jewel in the UK economy. It's what car making is to Germany.

    Roughly 10% of GDP.
    Just how well are VW doing these days?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    Corporates like to bend the rules, who knew?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    Corporates like to bend the rules, who knew?
    So, your point is that the financial sector bend the rules?
    Just like VW? No, not surprised.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    No - more the comment is irrelevant to the discussion.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    even the French PM is saying EU needs sort out migrant crisis or it will see the end of EU dream... well i never?

    But his solutions are pathetic and just talk, getting Turkey to stop refugees crossing to Greece! holding & registration centres, diplomatic solutions in Iraq and Syria,- like any of these things are going to happen - a immediate ban on selling RIBs to Turkey would have more effect.

    the nation states of the EU have cut and cut defence and now they ve zero chance of doing anything constructive, meanwhile we p1ss around debating spending 100billion on something we ll never use or even threaten to use.

    Without a strong conventional defence, Europe cannot do anything about Iraq or Syria, years of air bombing in Iraq hasnt stopped IS doing what it pleases.

    the peoples of europe can see the EU is growing increasingly pointless (what has it done about China dumping steel, against WTO rules?) and so, the UK has a chance to leave and i think it will and it wont be the last either.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    Seem to be conflating a lot of irrelevant issues with the EU referendum mamba.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,797 Lives Here
    Appreciate EU is a lightning rod for a lot of complaint about current govt but a lot of is is nothing to do with the EU.

    UK defence spending being one. What Britsin does with non EU migrants (I.e. Syrian, Iraqi and Libyan refugees) is also decided by the UK not EU, save for making the UK treat them humanely. That's another.

    Refugee crisis does need to be solved, agreed. It's not the EU's fault there is civil wear on the other side of the Mediterranean and nor does it have a say over where the non EU refugees go. Hence Germany's predicament.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    No - more the comment is irrelevant to the discussion.
    Ah, so you are saying that your analogy is irrelevant.
    Okay dokey.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ukiboyukiboy Posts: 891
    mamba80 wrote:
    well, i doubt anyone, out side of London, will care one jot about FS, its meaningless to the vast majority of people regardless of its undoubted value.

    the vote will almost certainly be decided on immigration, people dont really see the difference between non and EU migration - its a subject that anyone can see the EU has completely lost control over, Schengen and Dublin convention are in tatters and UN predicts another 1 million plus will cross into EU this year.

    Should UK vote to leave, let alone another Paris style attack, i suspect it ll be the beginning of the end as more will try and leave too.

    Spot on! Regardless of what conceited London centric folk like to imagine, it's not all about FS and the London gentrified smug elite. Most folk in the UK have had enough of that.
    And I speak as a born and bred Londoner - used to love the Big Smoke, now I can't relate to it at all and it in no way represents England or the UK..
    Outside the rat race and proud of it
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    I was looking for a more right wing paper to cover the story on TTIP
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... th-service

    When I found this on the EU
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... nment.html

    Any truth to either story is a scary prospect.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,717
    pblakeney wrote:

    Same could be said of the Telegraph ;)

    New World Order conspiracy theories are much older than Wikipedia.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,817
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    pblakeney wrote:

    Same could be said of the Telegraph ;)

    New World Order conspiracy theories are much older than Wikipedia.
    Which takes me to my point.
    You disbelieve right wing rags. But left wing rags say the EU will ruin us too. Different stories, same end.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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