BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,665
    edited June 2019
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    :?: 8
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Let’s be clear here, had he been caught in possession he’d have lost his career.

    So either he stands by his own convictions (pun intended) and resigns from his career or he accepts his politics on drug use are misguided and unfair, both in principal and application.
    According to your lot it shouldn't be an offence, so what are you moaning about?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-drug-decriminalisation-personal-a7637161.html

    Understand what I wrote better.

    I’ve highlighted the relevant bit to help.

    If he believes in the criminalisation of drugs he ought to practice what he preaches. Ooooooor he should rethink it.
    Dont be patronsising Rick, I understand the point above very well thank you. I'm more interested in your hypoctical stance on this.

    OK. I will spell it out for you.

    If you are a politician who believes using cocaine is something that is against the law, you must surely abide by your own beliefs and apply them as fairly to yourself as you would others?

    If he is willing to have others fall in trouble with the law for cocaine, why is he not willing to accept he should too?

    I would be more sympathetic to him if he used cocaine and decided that it ought not to blot his career and figured that that same logic be applied to everyone else too. But he does the opposite. He thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

    I am calling him out for not applying his own views on cocaine users on himself.

    I’d be happy for him to help legalise drugs but since he passes laws to further criminalise it he ought to apply that to himself

    Who knows what he really thinks. Trying to extrapolate from one admission of drug use 20 years ago and his brief spell as Justice Secretary feels like too few pieces of the jigsaw to me. His views on cocaine use could quite plausibly have changed over the intervening period. Or, like pretty much every other person on the planet he's just inconsistent. If he had been caught at the time he might have lost his job, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it would have ended his career, especially in journalism. But he got away with it and now it's too late even if he handed himself at a police station.

    More generally, how on earth do you legalise an industry run by the cartels and organised crime?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    :?: 8
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Let’s be clear here, had he been caught in possession he’d have lost his career.

    So either he stands by his own convictions (pun intended) and resigns from his career or he accepts his politics on drug use are misguided and unfair, both in principal and application.
    According to your lot it shouldn't be an offence, so what are you moaning about?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-drug-decriminalisation-personal-a7637161.html

    Understand what I wrote better.

    I’ve highlighted the relevant bit to help.

    If he believes in the criminalisation of drugs he ought to practice what he preaches. Ooooooor he should rethink it.
    Dont be patronsising Rick, I understand the point above very well thank you. I'm more interested in your hypoctical stance on this.

    OK. I will spell it out for you.

    If you are a politician who believes using cocaine is something that is against the law, you must surely abide by your own beliefs and apply them as fairly to yourself as you would others?

    If he is willing to have others fall in trouble with the law for cocaine, why is he not willing to accept he should too?

    I would be more sympathetic to him if he used cocaine and decided that it ought not to blot his career and figured that that same logic be applied to everyone else too. But he does the opposite. He thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

    I am calling him out for not applying his own views on cocaine users on himself.

    I’d be happy for him to help legalise drugs but since he passes laws to further criminalise it he ought to apply that to himself

    Who knows what he really thinks. Trying to extrapolate from one admission of drug use 20 years ago and his brief spell as Justice Secretary feels like too few pieces of the jigsaw to me. His views on cocaine use could quite plausibly have changed over the intervening period. Or, like pretty much every other person on the planet he's just inconsistent. If he had been caught at the time he might have lost his job, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it would have ended his career, especially in journalism. But he got away with it and now it's too late even if he handed himself at a police station.
    When get older and you see the misery it brings to those at the source, it kinda changes your mind on things.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,665
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    What being harassed by the police for minor drug use is like, since he is such an advocate of it
    Either one is in possession of class A drugs or one isn't. If you are repeatedly searched and never found to be in possession then that would be harassment. But you are suggesting some were found on more than one occasion.

    People like Gove don’t run the risk of being caught in possession as they are never stopped and searched.

    Not sure how much I am like Gove, but me neither. The misuse of stop and search, is something of a separate issue from drugs policy.

    @DHL: precisely.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    There's a lot of hypocrisy on here this weekend.

    Now older people are being praised for the wisdom and experience that age brings them
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,665
    Praise? Don't think there's any of that, but spin it whichever way you fancy :)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,700
    rjsterry wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    :?: 8
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Let’s be clear here, had he been caught in possession he’d have lost his career.

    So either he stands by his own convictions (pun intended) and resigns from his career or he accepts his politics on drug use are misguided and unfair, both in principal and application.
    According to your lot it shouldn't be an offence, so what are you moaning about?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-drug-decriminalisation-personal-a7637161.html

    Understand what I wrote better.

    I’ve highlighted the relevant bit to help.

    If he believes in the criminalisation of drugs he ought to practice what he preaches. Ooooooor he should rethink it.
    Dont be patronsising Rick, I understand the point above very well thank you. I'm more interested in your hypoctical stance on this.

    OK. I will spell it out for you.

    If you are a politician who believes using cocaine is something that is against the law, you must surely abide by your own beliefs and apply them as fairly to yourself as you would others?

    If he is willing to have others fall in trouble with the law for cocaine, why is he not willing to accept he should too?

    I would be more sympathetic to him if he used cocaine and decided that it ought not to blot his career and figured that that same logic be applied to everyone else too. But he does the opposite. He thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

    I am calling him out for not applying his own views on cocaine users on himself.

    I’d be happy for him to help legalise drugs but since he passes laws to further criminalise it he ought to apply that to himself

    Who knows what he really thinks. Trying to extrapolate from one admission of drug use 20 years ago and his brief spell as Justice Secretary feels like too few pieces of the jigsaw to me. His views on cocaine use could quite plausibly have changed over the intervening period. Or, like pretty much every other person on the planet he's just inconsistent. If he had been caught at the time he might have lost his job, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it would have ended his career, especially in journalism. But he got away with it and now it's too late even if he handed himself at a police station.

    More generally, how on earth do you legalise an industry run by the cartels and organised crime?

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 73125?s=21

    Here’s a thread which offers some insights on what he was writing during the time he admitted to enjoying the odd line.

    D8kJhTFX4AIeixe?format=jpg&name=900x900

    Article link at the end of it
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,509
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    :?: 8
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Let’s be clear here, had he been caught in possession he’d have lost his career.

    So either he stands by his own convictions (pun intended) and resigns from his career or he accepts his politics on drug use are misguided and unfair, both in principal and application.
    According to your lot it shouldn't be an offence, so what are you moaning about?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-drug-decriminalisation-personal-a7637161.html

    Understand what I wrote better.

    I’ve highlighted the relevant bit to help.

    If he believes in the criminalisation of drugs he ought to practice what he preaches. Ooooooor he should rethink it.
    Dont be patronsising Rick, I understand the point above very well thank you. I'm more interested in your hypoctical stance on this.

    OK. I will spell it out for you.

    If you are a politician who believes using cocaine is something that is against the law, you must surely abide by your own beliefs and apply them as fairly to yourself as you would others?

    If he is willing to have others fall in trouble with the law for cocaine, why is he not willing to accept he should too?

    I would be more sympathetic to him if he used cocaine and decided that it ought not to blot his career and figured that that same logic be applied to everyone else too. But he does the opposite. He thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

    I am calling him out for not applying his own views on cocaine users on himself.

    I’d be happy for him to help legalise drugs but since he passes laws to further criminalise it he ought to apply that to himself
    What Gove does now is partly for him, partly for those who might vote for him to decide. I guess if there is a legal case to answer that will be relevant too.

    But at the risk of repeating myself, you're calling him out for something that you say shouldn't be an offence. As mentioned above, I'm looking at your hypocrisy, not his.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,700
    What’s hypocritical about criticising his hypocrscy?

    That because I disagree with his view I can’t still think he ought to practice what he preaches?
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,665
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    What’s hypocritical about criticising his hypocrscy?

    That because I disagree with his view I can’t still think he ought to practice what he preaches?

    The article you linked to supports the explanation that this only came out because the supporters of one of the other leadership candidates were threatening to use the story, and Gove moved first to spike it.

    Javid in particular is making hay (while being careful not to specifically comment on Gove, of course) but he does have a bit of a point (ugh!).

    That anyone has failed to live up to the values they espouse is hardly news, albeit a little more humility and explanation wouldn't go amiss. As for his government's drugs policy, while it's clearly not achieving its overall aims, I don't buy that it was almost exclusively focused on users as several proponents of legalisation argue. And legalising use alone just makes it easier for the criminals producing the stuff to grow their market.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    seven of the 11 candidates battling for the keys to No 10 have used banned substances in the past.

    So why pick on just Gove?
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,551
    gove's fresh meat, but probably it's more that he's not the one the hard brexiters have the hots for, attacking him helps them toward their objective of destruction at all costs to protect the tory party

    i'd also assume johnson's friends in the presss are taking revenge for gove putting the knife into johnson the last time around
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,938
    https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/stat ... 1639204865

    1 minute 38 seconds summary of where we are.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Robert88 wrote:
    seven of the 11 candidates battling for the keys to No 10 have used banned substances in the past.

    So why pick on just Gove?

    Because they smoked a bit of pot, they didn't take class A drugs around the age of 30.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,347
    They all need a spot of snow and blow to make them vaguely interesting.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,551
    Pinno wrote:
    They all need a spot of snow and blow to make them vaguely interesting.
    https://b3ta.com/challenge/politiciansondrugs/
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,700
    So BoJo’s campaigning for the U.K. to default on some debt.

    No one is surprised anymore.
    _
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So BoJo’s campaigning for the U.K. to default on some debt.

    No one is surprised anymore.

    And cut income tax for higher earners..

    And impose tariffs on imports from China and Mexico to pay for Irish Wall..
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,700
    I wonder if the feeling of just a wholesale lack of scrutiny of these candidates is just that, or that it is actually the case.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,509
    A spot of good news on the free trade agreement front, especially as I keep hearing how difficult these things are to agree:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48577667
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,551
    scrutiny? this is politics

    the only thing the tory party cares about is fighting off farage, it's a race to the bottom, they'd happily elect ian brady if they thought he'd do it best (and he hadn't been cremated)

    everything else comes a distant second
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,551
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A spot of good news on the free trade agreement front, especially as I keep hearing how difficult these things are to agree:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48577667
    it's an in principle agreement to sign if/when, with a country that has a trade surplus with respect to uk, to maintain status quo

    doesn't feel like that'd be a huge challenge, summary of negotiations:

    uk "please, let us keep on buying more from you than you buy from us"
    korea "yes, but you come here to sign"
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    :?: 8
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Let’s be clear here, had he been caught in possession he’d have lost his career.

    So either he stands by his own convictions (pun intended) and resigns from his career or he accepts his politics on drug use are misguided and unfair, both in principal and application.
    According to your lot it shouldn't be an offence, so what are you moaning about?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-drug-decriminalisation-personal-a7637161.html

    Understand what I wrote better.

    I’ve highlighted the relevant bit to help.

    If he believes in the criminalisation of drugs he ought to practice what he preaches. Ooooooor he should rethink it.
    Dont be patronsising Rick, I understand the point above very well thank you. I'm more interested in your hypoctical stance on this.

    OK. I will spell it out for you.

    If you are a politician who believes using cocaine is something that is against the law, you must surely abide by your own beliefs and apply them as fairly to yourself as you would others?

    If he is willing to have others fall in trouble with the law for cocaine, why is he not willing to accept he should too?

    I would be more sympathetic to him if he used cocaine and decided that it ought not to blot his career and figured that that same logic be applied to everyone else too. But he does the opposite. He thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

    I am calling him out for not applying his own views on cocaine users on himself.

    I’d be happy for him to help legalise drugs but since he passes laws to further criminalise it he ought to apply that to himself

    If it was just Gove saying "I tried class A drugs 20 years ago as all my peers were doing it - but I stopped and I regret trying it" then I'd not be bothered - but according to the papers - he was in his "drug taking years" and then writing articles against it's use - more "Do what I say, not what I do" - I don't like that dishonest behavior ...

    QQ - how many on here have tried Drugs?
    Me - not one bit (but then I was never a conformist!)
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,509
    sungod wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A spot of good news on the free trade agreement front, especially as I keep hearing how difficult these things are to agree:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48577667
    it's an in principle agreement to sign if/when, with a country that has a trade surplus with respect to uk, to maintain status quo

    doesn't feel like that'd be a huge challenge, summary of negotiations:

    uk "please, let us keep on buying more from you than you buy from us"
    korea "yes, but you come here to sign"
    Using that logic will set us up well for the US trade agreement talks then.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,907
    Slowbike wrote:
    QQ - how many on here have tried Drugs?
    Me - not one bit (but then I was never a conformist!)
    I'm assuming that caffeine, alcohol, ranitidine and prochlorperazine don't count...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    QQ - how many on here have tried Drugs?
    Me - not one bit (but then I was never a conformist!)
    I'm assuming that caffeine, alcohol, ranitidine and prochlorperazine don't count...
    Let's be pedantic and leave it as drugs that you cannot buy over the counter or have received a valid prescription for.
    So a couple of paracetamol from a mate is fine (you can buy them over the counter) but using his methadone isn't.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,551
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    sungod wrote:
    Using that logic will set us up well for the US trade agreement talks then.
    yep, uk'll do whatever trump says, bigly
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,254
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    sungod wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A spot of good news on the free trade agreement front, especially as I keep hearing how difficult these things are to agree:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48577667
    it's an in principle agreement to sign if/when, with a country that has a trade surplus with respect to uk, to maintain status quo

    doesn't feel like that'd be a huge challenge, summary of negotiations:

    uk "please, let us keep on buying more from you than you buy from us"
    korea "yes, but you come here to sign"
    Using that logic will set us up well for the US trade agreement talks then.

    And the EU.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Pross wrote:
    I quite like rjs image of locally sourced coke grown by a co-operative. Ideally it would be sold on an honesty box system. They'd love that in places like Stroud and Totnes.

    I think it's still acid tabs and mushrooms, in Totnes.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,347
    sungod wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    They all need a spot of snow and blow to make them vaguely interesting.
    https://b3ta.com/challenge/politiciansondrugs/

    Has to be worth posting:

    Dopes800.jpg
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,665
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    I quite like rjs image of locally sourced coke grown by a co-operative. Ideally it would be sold on an honesty box system. They'd love that in places like Stroud and Totnes.

    I think it's still acid tabs and mushrooms, in Totnes.

    "Try this; it's single estate, darling...."
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition

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