BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

haydenm

I don't really want Brexit or independence for similar reasons. It's surprising that Farage is on the right and SNP are left but I think both of those issues are separate from traditional left and right, which is why this whole process has been a nightmare.

mr_goo

Pross said:

mr_goo said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably the SNP vote means Scotland ref is on the cards.

I dont think Boris has any need to give Wee Jimmy Krankie another 'once in a generation' independence vote less than 5 years after the last one. Scotland is coming with us...

I'd actually like to see a UK wide referendum on Scottish independence.
The union is like an old stale marriage where one partner is the fit and healthy main bread winner and the other suffers from alcoholism and type 2 diabetes. I know what I'd do in that situation.

More like one where a partner has been used and abused and you now want to throw them aside as they're not as attractive. A large part of the countries industrial wealth was built on the natural resources of Scotland and Wales and more recently from the revenue of Scottish oil fields. Now they can't give you what you want anymore you'd like to cast them aside, why am I not surprised?

I'm not convinced that the financial powerhouse of Dorset contributes much to the UK's GDP so maybe we should cut them loose too? They can get by on income from offshore wind farms.

Ooo how ✂️✂️✂️✂️✂️.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

bompington

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

Well here's hoping. A few suggestions for other things he might surprise us with:

• Telling the truth
  
• A sensible economic plan
  
• Releasing the report on interference in the 2017 election (I wonder what a report into the 2019 one would show?)
  
• Sticking with the same woman for a while
  
• Coming up with a plan to unite the country when everything he's done so far has been predicated on riling up everyone but his base
  

darkhairedlord

Pross said:

The most pleasing part of the exit poll is seeing Brexit Party 0 seats. We'll have to endure Mr Toad for a few days going on about how he helped ensures Tory win so that Brexit could be done and how he'll be keeping an eye on them to ensure they do it and then hopefully he'll disappear once and for all.

he will mysteriously fall down a flight of stairs.

coopster_the_1st

Have we done Chuka the Remoaner yet?

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

not wishing to be pedantic but with the WA it was more throwing out the red lines and leaving NI behind that allowed him to accept a previous offer. That is not really renegotiating.

Stevo_666

bompington said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

Well here's hoping. A few suggestions for other things he might surprise us with:

• Telling the truth
  
• A sensible economic plan
  
• Releasing the report on interference in the 2017 election (I wonder what a report into the 2019 one would show?)
  
• Sticking with the same woman for a while
  
• Coming up with a plan to unite the country when everything he's done so far has been predicated on riling up everyone but his base
  

I was thinking more about a trade deal but hey ho.

It's very British knock a winner

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

bompington said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

Well here's hoping. A few suggestions for other things he might surprise us with:

• Telling the truth
  
• A sensible economic plan
  
• Releasing the report on interference in the 2017 election (I wonder what a report into the 2019 one would show?)
  
• Sticking with the same woman for a while
  
• Coming up with a plan to unite the country when everything he's done so far has been predicated on riling up everyone but his base
  

I was thinking more about a trade deal but hey ho.

It's very British knock a winner

Good point about a trade deal. Now he is free from the headbangers will he hurl the fishymen under the bus or will he allow negotiations to collapse on day 1 when the EU insist on access to our fishing grounds.

The irony of course is that if we walk away the EU will block us selling fish into their markets and our fishing industry will collapse which will allow us to negotiate a trade deal allowing access to our fully stocked fishing grounds

Stevo_666

Good article in the Telegraph about the Corbyn **** show:

"On TV, everyone looked stunned. Not just Labour. Everyone. From every party. On every channel. Motionless, pallid, blank. Like shocked shop dummies. Such was the Tory onslaught, even the swingometer was struggling to cope. “They’ve virtually broken it,” whimpered Jeremy Vine.

Supporters of Jeremy Corbyn, however, had to snap out of their stupor. Quickly they agreed the line to take. Simply: that Labour’s crushing defeat was all down to Brexit. Not anything else. Or anyone else. Just to make that clear.

On BBC One, John McDonnell sounded like Eeyore discovering that Tigger has trampled the thistles he was saving for his birthday. “I think voters did just want to get Brexit done,” groaned the Shadow Chancellor. You know a slogan is snappy when even your opponents can’t help using it.

On ITV, however, Alan Johnson – a Labour centrist who served under Tony Blair – took a slightly different view. In his eyes, there was possibly another reason for Labour’s catastrophe. In extraordinary scenes on ITV, he tore into Jon Lansman, co-founder of Momentum – the official Jeremy Corbyn fan club (join today and get a free signed poster and badge).

“Everybody knew [Mr Corbyn] couldn’t lead the working class out of a paper bag,” snarled Mr Johnson. “Go back to your student politics.”

“I don’t think we should rush into these things,” protested Mr Lansman, feebly. He added that Mr Corbyn “had achieved a great deal”. Well, quite. Mr Corbyn promised “real change”, and he delivered it. Burnley, Redcar and Wrexham turning Tory. That’s change more radical than even he could have dreamt.

As the election results rolled in, events only seemed to grow more unreal. On TV most guests and pundits, even those on the winning side, looked as if they’d just stumbled weakly from the world’s fastest fairground ride, and were now staggering off in search of a bucket. This was mad. Mad. The Tories were spreading everywhere. Where would they take next? Normandy?

Yet, no matter how awful their night grew, Corbynites were still struggling to grasp what had gone wrong. On the BBC, Andrew Neil attempted to talk sense into Richard Burgon, the Father Dougal of the Labour party. Mr Burgon looked like a dog trying to follow a lecture on differential calculus.

"Yet, no matter how awful their night grew, Corbynites were still struggling to grasp what had gone wrong". Jeremy Corbyn, for his part, gave a narked and graceless speech, scrupulously void of humility or self-criticism, but thick with mutterings about “the way the media behaved towards me”. He did at least promise to resign, but not immediately – first he would lead the party in “a process of reflection”. Which he and his followers will presumably use to work out who else to blame.

What a night, though. Astonishing. Flabbergasting. At his count in Uxbridge, shortly before 4am, a dazed Boris Johnson thanked his constituents, his fellow candidates, and the public in general. Disappointingly, however, he forgot to thank the people who made his great triumph possible.

The membership of the Labour party."

He can thank me later

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

TBF, his renegotiation was pretty minimal. He just went back to the previous version that May almost agreed before she suddenly remembered the DUP.

Oh, wot SC said.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

TBF, his renegotiation was pretty minimal. He just went back to the previous version that May almost agreed before she suddenly remembered the DUP.

Oh, wot SC said.

Some fairly material differences.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

So Corbyn's Brexit fence-sitting didn't work out so well... not at all surprised. He tried to please both sides, and ended up pleasing neither.

Still, looking on the bright side, he's made Michael Foot look charismatic and less of a disaster, in comparison.

The Lib Dems position on Brexit didn't seem to be a resounding success either. Forecast 13 seats and electoral irrelevance continued.

Incompetence there too.

The most positive thing I've posted here about Corbyn is that he's not Johnson, but (if you cared to look), I'm not at all surprised at Labour's failure: a message which alienated too many of the middle ground, combined with a dishonesty about his Brexit leanings, and trying to play both sides, under the pretence of being an 'honest broker'.

Re: Corbyn: all of that - and being hard left.

Yes, indeed.

A small consolation for someone who dislikes both Johnson and Corbyn: East Devon is "96%" predicated to overturn 150 years of Tory MPs to elect an independent.

That pesky 4% Brian...enjoy another 5 years of Tory rule in East Devon

Stevo_666

coopster_the_1st said:

Have we done Chuka the Remoaner yet?

What happened to him? I don't even know where he was standing or who for.

Stevo_666

TheBlueBean said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

TBF, his renegotiation was pretty minimal. He just went back to the previous version that May almost agreed before she suddenly remembered the DUP.

Oh, wot SC said.

Some fairly material differences.

+1

He still did what many on here and elsewhere couldn't be done.

coopster_the_1st

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Have we done Chuka the Remoaner yet?

What happened to him? I don't even know where he was standing or who for.

He stood in the Cities of London & Westminster constituency for the Lib Dums. This was a CON hold on the night

His name is getting lost in the long list of:

Jo Swinson
Anna Sourface
Dominic "irrelevant" Grieve
Dennis Skinner
etc
etc

kingstongraham

53% voted for second ref parties. Will of the people and all that.

Still no mandate for a hard Brexit, everything is split down the middle.

Stevo_666

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Have we done Chuka the Remoaner yet?

What happened to him? I don't even know where he was standing or who for.

He stood in the Cities of London & Westminster constituency for the Lib Dums. This was a CON hold on the night

His name is getting lost in the long list of:

Jo Swinson
Anna Sourface
Dominic "irrelevant" Grieve
Dennis Skinner
etc
etc

Bad luck Chukka...oh yes, and Dennis Skinner, the leftie motormouth. A deserving casualty. Just a pity none of the central Labour figures got scalped.

But still, a great result. Song for the day:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

TheBlueBean said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

TBF, his renegotiation was pretty minimal. He just went back to the previous version that May almost agreed before she suddenly remembered the DUP.

Oh, wot SC said.

Some fairly material differences.

+1

He still did what many on here and elsewhere couldn't be done.

He did what many said couldn't be done, by doing what he said he wouldn't do.

elbowloh

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

As mentioned above, a 1.2% increase in the tory vote has resulted in a majority of almost 80. Incredible. The Labour party made themselves pretty much unelectable.

I do wonder about those in traditional labour communities who switched to the Tories. Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.

Still heartwarming seeing people clinging onto 'the electorate are stupid and we know better' line.

Not so much stupid as been lied to.

Stevo_666

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

As mentioned above, a 1.2% increase in the tory vote has resulted in a majority of almost 80. Incredible. The Labour party made themselves pretty much unelectable.

I do wonder about those in traditional labour communities who switched to the Tories. Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.

Still heartwarming seeing people clinging onto 'the electorate are stupid and we know better' line.

Not so much stupid as been lied to.

Pretty sure there's no monopoly on lies for any party. But its nearly always an excuse trotted out by the losing side.

Stevo_666

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBlueBean said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Don’t understand the “now we will have a soft Brexit” analysis.

Surely it’s the opposite.

You can only judge Johnson by his actions as his words are all over the place. When it came down to it he didn't take us out without a deal. He's also not beholden to the headbangers anymore. But who knows? He's told so many lies nobody knows where his true beliefs lie.

Fair enough. Many said he could never renegotiate the WA and he did. Many said he would never get a big majority and he did. Wonder what will be next on the list?

TBF, his renegotiation was pretty minimal. He just went back to the previous version that May almost agreed before she suddenly remembered the DUP.

Oh, wot SC said.

Some fairly material differences.

+1

He still did what many on here and elsewhere couldn't be done.

He did what many said couldn't be done, by doing what he said he wouldn't do.

He kept the lefties out of power, which is important.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

As mentioned above, a 1.2% increase in the tory vote has resulted in a majority of almost 80. Incredible. The Labour party made themselves pretty much unelectable.

I do wonder about those in traditional labour communities who switched to the Tories. Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.

Still heartwarming seeing people clinging onto 'the electorate are stupid and we know better' line.

Not so much stupid as been lied to.

Pretty sure there's no monopoly on lies for any party. But its nearly always an excuse trotted out by the losing side.

It is quite rare to have someone who has been sacked from two separate jobs for lying to be quite so successful.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

As mentioned above, a 1.2% increase in the tory vote has resulted in a majority of almost 80. Incredible. The Labour party made themselves pretty much unelectable.

I do wonder about those in traditional labour communities who switched to the Tories. Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.

Still heartwarming seeing people clinging onto 'the electorate are stupid and we know better' line.

Not so much stupid as been lied to.

Pretty sure there's no monopoly on lies for any party. But its nearly always an excuse trotted out by the losing side.

It is quite rare to have someone who has been sacked from two separate jobs for lying to be quite so successful.

Getting a job does not mean that you will be successful in it.
I've seen a few blag lucrative jobs only to be turfed out later.

elbowloh

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

Stevo_666 said:

elbowloh said:

As mentioned above, a 1.2% increase in the tory vote has resulted in a majority of almost 80. Incredible. The Labour party made themselves pretty much unelectable.

I do wonder about those in traditional labour communities who switched to the Tories. Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.

Still heartwarming seeing people clinging onto 'the electorate are stupid and we know better' line.

Not so much stupid as been lied to.

Pretty sure there's no monopoly on lies for any party. But its nearly always an excuse trotted out by the losing side.

"GENERAL ELECTION: ALMOST EVERY TORY AD DISHONEST, COMPARED WITH NONE OF LABOUR’S, RESEARCH FINDS"

88% of Tory ads contains lies

tailwindhome

tailwindhome

Labour's biggest problem now is that it's membership is still bonkers

It's the bonkers membership (and Stevo) who'll decide the next leader.

Pross

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Have we done Chuka the Remoaner yet?

What happened to him? I don't even know where he was standing or who for.

He stood in the Cities of London & Westminster constituency for the Lib Dums. This was a CON hold on the night

His name is getting lost in the long list of:

Jo Swinson
Anna Sourface
Dominic "irrelevant" Grieve
Dennis Skinner
etc
etc

He was in a seat where the Lib Dems were 3rd in 2017 about 14,000 votes behind the Tories. He took them to 2nd place, less than 4,000 behind. That's pretty impressive really, he just took the votes off Labour though.

Longshot

Labour's biggest problem is that its leadership doesn't understand what it perceives to be its core voter.

Pross

Reluctantly I have to admit it looks like Brexit really is the 'will of the people' in large parts of the country to the extent they were prepared to ditch life long political allegiances to get it. So to try to be positive at least it now looks like things can start moving not just on Brexit but the day to day governance of the country. We might get policies I don't like but ultimately it's better than even more years of stalemate.