BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Given Rick's post on German preparations for a no deal exit, I think it's more likely that the EU have given us up as a lost cause.
The troubled relative who keeps threatening to self-harm if he doesn't get what he wants.

At some point the EU will surely just say "Are you still here, why don't you just **** off?"
We are increasingly becoming the guest who is overstaying their welcome.

Once they have wound down their liabilities.

How much do they owe us?

You are the accountant, you should be able to fix something.

tailwindhome

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Given Rick's post on German preparations for a no deal exit, I think it's more likely that the EU have given us up as a lost cause.
The troubled relative who keeps threatening to self-harm if he doesn't get what he wants.

At some point the EU will surely just say "Are you still here, why don't you just **** off?"
We are increasingly becoming the guest who is overstaying their welcome.

Once they have wound down their liabilities.

How much do they owe us?

You are the accountant, you should be able to fix something.

Question to DHL as he made the statement.

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

I believe Germany is a member of the EU.

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

I believe Germany is a member of the EU.

That's true, but it's not the point.

sungod

Stevo 666 wrote:

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

they did negotiate, but it turned out the uk was being run by divisive fanatic lying incompetents

now that we've replaced these with extremist divisive fanatic lying incompetents, i'd assume the eu negotiators have noted this and made the rational decision that there's no point talking to proven liars, may as well sit back and watch the fun

there's upside for them, as the gbp crumbles, there'll be uk assets worth snapping up for eu/other buyers

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

I believe Germany is a member of the EU.

That's true, but it's not the point.

Write to the Telegraph and complain about their sloppy journalism

rjsterry

Apparently Johnson is off to Berlin and Paris to try to make some sort of breakthrough. Maybe he's read the Telegraph.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

I believe Germany is a member of the EU.

That's true, but it's not the point.

Write to the Telegraph and complain about their sloppy journalism

TWH works for the Telegraph?

Stevo_666

sungod wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

they did negotiate, but it turned out the uk was being run by divisive fanatic lying incompetents

now that we've replaced these with extremist divisive fanatic lying incompetents, i'd assume the eu negotiators have noted this and made the rational decision that there's no point talking to proven liars, may as well sit back and watch the fun

there's upside for them, as the gbp crumbles, there'll be uk assets worth snapping up for eu/other buyers

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
· 4h
The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

I believe Germany is a member of the EU.

That's true, but it's not the point.

Write to the Telegraph and complain about their sloppy journalism

TWH works for the Telegraph?

I can confirm that I do not work for the Telegraph.

tailwindhome

Corbyn claiming that when a Govt collapses we turn to the leader of the opposition.

Is this true?

Has the leader of the opposition ever become PM without winning a GE first (and therefore no longer being leader of the opposition)?

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Corbyn claiming that when a Govt collapses we turn to the leader of the opposition.

Is this true?

Has the leader of the opposition ever become PM without winning a GE first (and therefore no longer being leader of the opposition)?

Bit theoretical as unsurprisingly he can't get the backing he needs.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/16/sadiq-khan-lib-dems-jo-swinson-corbyn-only-viable-pm-stop-no-deal-brexit

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Corbyn claiming that when a Govt collapses we turn to the leader of the opposition.

Is this true?

Has the leader of the opposition ever become PM without winning a GE first (and therefore no longer being leader of the opposition)?

Bit theoretical as unsurprisingly he can't get the backing he needs.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/16/sadiq-khan-lib-dems-jo-swinson-corbyn-only-viable-pm-stop-no-deal-brexit

A cynic might suggest that Corbyn knows the other parties will not support him as caretaker PM, is in reality quite happy to let Johnson hang himself on his promises one way or the other, and just wants to score some points against a party that is likely to take seats off him at the next GE.

robert88

What we need is a new


Apparently this went viral in 1968 when the UK was in deep sh1t. The poet laureate even wrote a poem ending:

To work then, islanders, as men and women
Members one of another, looking beyond
Mean rules and rivalries towards the dream you could
Make real, of glory, common wealth, and home.

Inspiring, no? A year later we joined the EU.

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Inspiring, no? A year later we joined the EU.

Not on the factual accuracy front. We joined the EEC - and that was in 1973: the EEC only became the EU in 1993.

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Inspiring, no? A year later we joined the EU.

Not on the factual accuracy front. We joined the EEC - and that was in 1973: the EEC only became the EU in 1993.

Yes strictly speaking but it was like pushing on a closed door. We started our attempt to join much earlier and it was in 1969 that the bloc decided to allow our application and it was made. Of course it was a bad decision (by the other countries) because frankly the UK was not ready to be part of Europe and only applied out of desperation. Our export markets were either shrinking or turning their backs on us and it seemed wise to seek to trade with the rest of the continent.

For quite a while the UK was able to live on borrowed time while denying its former greatness had turned into something over which its government had no control; the 'empire' had become capital instead of territory. Now capital has taken the process a step further by 'winning' the vote to remove any influence from Brussels. It now has to fight the battle to subjugate Brussels or lose the market it had before. In that battle it may have the support of the USA although that in itself is a very mixed blessing. Before we joined the EU (or whatever) the USA was already taking over British companies in a way that at its worst was simple asset-stripping. In a sense we have put ourselves between a rock and a hard place: do we court China or Washington as we aren't clever enough to play them off against each other as countries used to do with the USSR and the USA.

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

Before we joined the EU (or whatever) the USA was already taking over British companies in a way that at its worst was simple asset-stripping. In a sense we have put ourselves between a rock and a hard place: do we court China or Washington as we aren't clever enough to play them off against each other as countries used to do with the USSR and the USA.

Can you give some evidence/examples of this US 'asset stripping' and how this was different from takeovers by companies from any other country at the time?

Also, how did membership of the EU protect us from these US 'asset strippers'?

orraloon

Hey taxman, thought you were going on holiday?

Stevo_666

orraloon wrote:

Hey taxman, thought you were going on holiday?

Hey gardener - going tomorrow 8) . Just getting stuff sorted today.

sungod

Stevo 666 wrote:

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

each assertion is provable

the demand for 'balance' was used to browbeat the bbc into giving disproportionate airtime to people who then used it to lie

i'm a product of the cold war era, in my world you don't give 'balance' to the bad guys, you eliminate them

slowmart

Stevo 666 wrote:

sungod wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

they did negotiate, but it turned out the uk was being run by divisive fanatic lying incompetents

now that we've replaced these with extremist divisive fanatic lying incompetents, i'd assume the eu negotiators have noted this and made the rational decision that there's no point talking to proven liars, may as well sit back and watch the fun

there's upside for them, as the gbp crumbles, there'll be uk assets worth snapping up for eu/other buyers

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

Why would anyone want to currently invest in the UK? We are tearing up trade treaties with our largest trading partner.

We are moving to into a vacuum where we have no current processes, trade agreements or mechanisms to export.

This will hit UK companies turn over and profits and in turn dividends paid to shareholders.

So if you mean “investment” in terms of buying devalued shares then you’re right but as for GDP growth, CapEx or increased revenues for HMRC then I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Stevo_666

Slowmart wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

sungod wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

they did negotiate, but it turned out the uk was being run by divisive fanatic lying incompetents

now that we've replaced these with extremist divisive fanatic lying incompetents, i'd assume the eu negotiators have noted this and made the rational decision that there's no point talking to proven liars, may as well sit back and watch the fun

there's upside for them, as the gbp crumbles, there'll be uk assets worth snapping up for eu/other buyers

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

Why would anyone want to currently invest in the UK? We are tearing up trade treaties with our largest trading partner.

We are moving to into a vacuum where we have no current processes, trade agreements or mechanisms to export.

This will hit UK companies turn over and profits and in turn dividends paid to shareholders.

So if you mean “investment” in terms of buying devalued shares then you’re right but as for GDP growth, CapEx or increased revenues for HMRC then I wouldn’t hold your breath.

I've already told you about your alleged trade 'vacuum' and why that's not the case. Not that long ago either.

As for the other stuff, ask SG - he said it

Stevo_666

sungod wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

each assertion is provable

the demand for 'balance' was used to browbeat the bbc into giving disproportionate airtime to people who then used it to lie

i'm a product of the cold war era, in my world you don't give 'balance' to the bad guys, you eliminate them

I'm sure it will be fun proving subjective statements

As for being a product of the cold war, that's not a very liberal attitude. I suppose its the old liberal adage of diversity in everything, except for opinions

slowmart

Stevo 666 wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

sungod wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I thought it was the EU that was meant to to be negotiating with us?

they did negotiate, but it turned out the uk was being run by divisive fanatic lying incompetents

now that we've replaced these with extremist divisive fanatic lying incompetents, i'd assume the eu negotiators have noted this and made the rational decision that there's no point talking to proven liars, may as well sit back and watch the fun

there's upside for them, as the gbp crumbles, there'll be uk assets worth snapping up for eu/other buyers

Thanks for your balanced assessment sg

On the plus side you think it might improve inbound investment

Why would anyone want to currently invest in the UK? We are tearing up trade treaties with our largest trading partner.

We are moving to into a vacuum where we have no current processes, trade agreements or mechanisms to export.

This will hit UK companies turn over and profits and in turn dividends paid to shareholders.

So if you mean “investment” in terms of buying devalued shares then you’re right but as for GDP growth, CapEx or increased revenues for HMRC then I wouldn’t hold your breath.

I've already told you about your alleged trade 'vacuum' and why that's not the case. Not that long ago either.

As for the other stuff, ask SG - he said it

Are you Boris or Rees Mogg in disguise.

What trade agreements are in place for the transition of leaving the EU?

What mechanisms have been agreed between the EU & UK to ensure frictionless borders?

So let’s get specific on what fall pack positions are in place for leaving the EU and continuity of trade?

There’s not a single agreement that’s been agreed, hence a vacuum, at this point the positions will be created retrospectively, untried and untested. Unless we keep the existing mechanisms in which case I’d what’s the point of leaving?

Stevo_666

I explained this to you in the 'Boris as PM thread'. You didn't put any counter arguments forward at the time so I assume youve just forgotten what I told you? Here's a quick reminder:

"Slowmart wrote:
The mechanisms for exporting and importing goods just won’t be there

I replied:
That is simply not correct.

The mechanisms there - how do you think we import goods from and export goods to non-EU countries currently? There will likely be more paperwork/admin, and extra tariffs on certain classes of goods but to suggest that trade of goods will somehow just stop is wrong."

It is part of the Brexit plannig I am involved in for my Group. We expect some additional admin costs and possible moderate delays at the border in the early days, but nothing fundamental or existential.

orraloon

Taxman dunt do supply chain... #obvs

Stevo_666

orraloon wrote:

Taxman dunt do supply chain... #obvs

Unfortunately for you lot, I do Tax, treasury, customs, Brexit are the main bits. My customs team work in our supply chain operation so I am pretty close to that part of the business. So it's easy to spot when people don't know what they're talking about in those areas, which happens quite often on here

Out of interest, what else do you do apart from gardening?

slowmart

Stevo 666 wrote:

I explained this to you in the 'Boris as PM thread'. You didn't put any counter arguments forward at the time so I assume youve just forgotten what I told you? Here's a quick reminder:

"Slowmart wrote:
The mechanisms for exporting and importing goods just won’t be there

I replied:
That is simply not correct.

The mechanisms there - how do you think we import goods from and export goods to non-EU countries currently? There will likely be more paperwork/admin, and extra tariffs on certain classes of goods but to suggest that trade of goods will somehow just stop is wrong."

It is part of the Brexit plannig I am involved in for my Group. We expect some additional admin costs and possible moderate delays at the border in the early days, but nothing fundamental or existential.

Whilst existing mechanisms exists what makes you think they will be utilised with the EU in the event of no deal?

And let’s take each of your points one by one.

Some additional admin costs? Which will be passes onto and paid for by the consumer in higher prices

Moderate delays? What’s moderate and you need to qualify that timeframe, the class of goods and the impact on the economy and individuals., which no one can , so how can you state it’s not fundamental if you can’t assess or measure the impact?

Early days, mmmmmm do you know the average timeframe to negotiate a trade agreement? It won’t be days or months.

You’ve not mentioned tariffs or your planning in the event of no deal?


Add Boris and his dim witted Cabinet and you really think they can agree, build, execute and embed new trade agreements with the EU or any other sovereign state. And while negotiations drag on Boris will be desperate to bend over for anyone offering anything.