Need new taper roller steering head bearings

Jim Lyon

Hi,
I've got an old ( 1993 ) Trek 820 "Antelope" which was fitted with taper roller needle bearings in the steering head a long time ago ( with different forks because of the different stack height of the bearings ) & I now find that I need to replace those taper roller steering head bearings. Because of a combination of relocating & ill health, I find myself out of touch, so I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell me where to get a suitable replacement set ( a brand that provides good waterproof seals would be a step in the right direction ).
IIRC the diameter of the steering head is 1 & 1/8", but as I'm not sure, where do I measure to find out what size I need?

Cheers.
Jim

rockmonkeysc

Take the bearings to a local bearing shop, they will sort you out. Try to get SKF, NSK or Koyo bearings.
They don't need to be needle rollers, ball bearings will be fine.

cycleclinic

You will have a threaded headset simply the whole headset headset. If the headset is designed for needle bearing then i doubt round ball will work As a replacement.

The Rookie

thecycleclinic wrote:

You will have a threaded headset simply the whole headset headset. If the headset is designed for needle bearing then i doubt round ball will work As a replacement.

Needle roller will normally be cartridge, in which case the same sized cartridge with balls will work just fine surely?

cycleclinic

Needle rollers are longer so there will be play Besides a 1/8" Balls would be needed and they are too small. The roller width may not be even 1/8" but it will be close. tange do threaded headsets for not a lot (£14) so really why bother trying to replace hard to find bearings. The races are probably pitted anyway.

rockmonkeysc

Needle roller and ball units are both available in the same sizes. Needle rollers are usually used in high axial load applications including motorcycle headsets. I use them a lot in high thrust, critical valve actuation systems.
They don't always have long rollers, many are almost square if you look at them in section. Also, where they are longer, there is a double row ball bearing equivalent.
The size of the balls is entirely irrelevant when they are sealed inside a cartridge. If you had a ball and a needle roller bearing next to each other in the same size they would look identical.

Jim Lyon

'll try & do a "mix & match" of the various points that have arisen so far :-

1) The Trek 820 first came fitted with ball bearings which I'm not that keen on because each ba.l only has the one point of contact ( per race ). As roller bearings have a bigger contact area, I'm hoping for extended life ( Though poor quality seals are less than entirely effective @ keeping kr@p out, so I'll try using cut down scrap inner tubes of an appropriate diameter to give a tight fit over the top & bottom of the headstock. )
Apart from only lasting a bit over a dozen years, the only problem I had was initial fitting as the taper rollers have a different "stack height" from the original ball bearing sets, so I ended up fitting new forks ( cheap enough @ £20 ).

2) I'm not keen on cartridge/sealed bearings as I prefer to take bearings apart during sericing to make sure they're thoroughly cleaned & regreased.

3 ) I tried to follow " RockmonkeySC" 's advice "Take the bearings to a local bearing shop, they will sort you out." & made a mistake in going to City Seals & Bearings Ltd, 23 Stevenson Road, Sheffield, S9 3XG & got "properly sorted out" by this guy who looked as if he's been there since "1900 & frozen to death" who made a great start by saying he didn't see why the race was tapered ( & as far as I'm concerned, it's not his place to question the design of a bearing, merely to provide a replacement, as requested ). So, this went on for a bit & I held my ground until other staff members joined in & started ganging up on me as if they were a bunch of "library Nazis" ( learned ALL about that level of dysfunctionality from some of the staff @ Sheffield Central Library - say no more ! ). Well, I'm no longer some naive preteen & I'm no longer prepared to put up with that kind of "life kr@p", so I voted with my feet !
Clearly I'll try elsewhere. - So rather than confuse such "heavy industrial" retards, by showing them the MTB bits, would I be better to simply say I'm looking for a 1" taper ( needle) roller bearing ( preferably SKF, NSK or Koyo ) & only show them the needle roller cage & inner & outer races for comparison ( presumably as long as they come up with the size I'm using & on comparison they match, then that's all I need? i.e. if they supply any extraneous housings or bits I don't need, then as long as I get two sets of roller cages & inner & outer races that fit my MTB housings, I'm not bothered?

The Rookie

Ball bearings can last a long long time, the ones on my commuter came from a 2006 MTB that looked like it had been stored in a ditch, since I've fitted them they have done another 4 years and 4500 miles and are still very smooth.

You either find what you want or suck it up and replace them really.

cooldad

Although perhaps thinking of people as 'heavy industrial retards' and 'nazis' may not help.

Jim Lyon

cooldad wrote:

Although perhaps thinking of people as 'heavy industrial retards' and 'nazis' may not help.

That was quite some time after, so I don't see it as affecting their reactions !
Anyway, given their level of behaviour, stereotyping seems a more than adequate means of describing them !
Normally I'm NOT into stereotyping, but their attitude earned it !

cooldad

Jim Lyon wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Although perhaps thinking of people as 'heavy industrial retards' and 'nazis' may not help.

That was quite some time after, so I don't see it as affecting their reactions !
Anyway, given their level of behaviour, stereotyping seems a more than adequate means of describing them !
Normally I'm NOT into stereotyping, but their attitude earned it !

If you say so. Anyway by Godwin's law this thread is now over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

JodyP

Jim Lyon wrote:

3 ) I tried to follow " RockmonkeySC" 's advice "Take the bearings to a local bearing shop, they will sort you out." & made a mistake in going to City Seals & Bearings Ltd, 23 Stevenson Road, Sheffield, S9 3XG

If your still struggling then send me a PM. My mate worked for CS&B for some years but is now in competition with them. Sheffield based, worked with bearings etc for the last 15+ years and knows his stuff.

rockmonkeysc

Not all heavy, industrial engineers are retards. Some of us are reasonably educated and normal with the ability to understand that things have moved on since the steam age.
Ball bearings have a similar contact area to rollers, isn't just a ball running on a flat surface, the race is curved to match the ball.


Modern sealed cartridge units are very good, I use them in applications where they are blasted with wet grit for 10 hours a day with a fairly heavy load and they last around 9-12 months