Group Riding ! Please help

speedjunkie

I recently started to bike seriously as you can read from some other post´s i´ve created and i can hold my own in a fast pace.

Today in the last 5 months i went for the first time, to a group ride (30 - 40 cyclist group) , as im not confortable riding in the middle or front of the group i stayed in the back of the group. Last guy actually LOL

Problem is, this is a damm fast group on the flats we were averaging around 25 mph with sometimes going to 33 , 34 mph , this would fragmentate the group a bit and i was seating on the back of the group i would have to do a huge effort to connect again, also im a big guy , i had only small guys ahead of me, the pace was killing me literally (sitting as last on the group and not having big people to shield me a bit) . I never expected to suffer on the flats ( got 300W+ 20m ftp , and 400+ 5m ftp) , 30kms into the ride, my chain got stuck and i lost contact, and made my way home alone.

I loved the experience, but made me think ive still damm green cycling is much more than pedelling !!!

i would enjoy every group riding tip.

Is sitting on the back a big mistake ? Problem is i dont still have the confidence to ride on the middle of a 30 cyclist pack averaging insane speeds.

The most i´ve riddin till now was with 2 other people, and nowhere near this speeds.

I feel i could keep it up with any issues if i was sitting on a more confortable position inside the group.

germcevoy

Riding dead last isn't easy. One lapse and you've lost a few yards and have to bury yourself to get back on again. That just doesn't happen mid pack. Why not try and move up the group in stages, maybe to second or third from the back. Stay on the outside so you can easily pull out if you don't fancy it.

30-40 riders is a big group but those speeds suggests they are all well polished riders so likely to be no muppets there to do something stupid mid pack.

speedjunkie

Germcevoy wrote:

Riding dead last isn't easy. One lapse and you've lost a few yards and have to bury yourself to get back on again. That just doesn't happen mid pack. Why not try and move up the group in stages, maybe to second or third from the back. Stay on the outside so you can easily pull out if you don't fancy it.

30-40 riders is a big group but those speeds suggests they are all well polished riders so likely to be no muppets there to do something stupid mid pack.

That happened 4,5 times in a span of 30kms, if i disconnected even for 4,5meters, mostly because i wasnt expecting a big accelaration out of the blue. i had to dig dip to get back again.

Next time i will do that, stay on the outside second of third from the back.

gethinceri

Newbies on our club rides often say "it's ok, i'll stay at the back", they're encouraged not to as it slows the whole group down and they're working harder as Germcevoy suggests.

philwint

Riding in a group needs different skills than riding fast. And riding fast while learning them will probably make that learning harder.

Probably best to find a slightly slower group to hone the riding in a group skills.

And then go back to the faster group to integrate both skill sets.

Bobbinogs

mmm, I am amazed your club organises rides with that many riders. Is this on British roads? We find that anything more than 15 becomes unmanageable and also starts to become treated with more and more hostility by drivers who see big groups (quite rightly) as a mob rather than a well drilled set of cyclists treating other road users with respect and ensuring no more than 2 across, etc.

It may also explain why you dropped off the back and no one split the group to sort you out and get you back on whilst the others free wheeled it a bit unless this was a stated code (chaingang type operation, etc.).

Watch the pro peleton and when they are going fast thorough technical areas the folks at the back often have to work the hardest as the group inevitably concertinas. I would also say there is a high risk of crashing as it can get a bit frantic and folks make silly mistakes when frantic.

Try a smaller group and work on your fitness or find a small chaingang who might let you join. Failing that, get a number on your back and race properly. If you want to give this huge fast group another go then you could always do so at monthly intervals and use it as a gauge on your progress but it does seem to be a very risky ride at that pace and with those numbers (if undertaken on British roads). I certainly wouldn't want to be in the pack if someone hits a pothole or a stick!

telesv650

I found that keeping a bit of space between you and the bike in front helps. Gives you room to move and some space to see what is coming. Secondly try to stay near the front. Sounds silly but it is easier than hanging off the back and you have more say on the pace. Also try in the middle. You will get used to it. Just trust the rider around you and ride in a predictable way. Follow a rider you trust if you can. I found that helped a lot.

Record11Ti

Follow a rider you trust if you can. I found that helped a lot.

Amen - however, if you are in a group that big, that fast I have to bet that every wheel is a "trustable" wheel. That is the exact reason that there are "Cat's" - Cat 5...yeah, stay away. Cat 1...you can eat your lunch off of their back (typically). There are always the potential for oddities, flats and what not. But, if you are in a group that large, that fast and you are not 100% who the "squirrel" is...its you.

whoof

As others above have said, learn to ride in a group then learn to ride fast in a group. Find a club run where they ride together at a comfortable pace. You can then concentrate on positioning in the group and holding a wheel rather being on the limit. Once this feels natural consider going out with a faster group.

awavey

whoof wrote:

As others above have said, learn to ride in a group then learn to ride fast in a group. Find a club run where they ride together at a comfortable pace. You can then concentrate on positioning in the group and holding a wheel rather being on the limit. Once this feels natural consider going out with a faster group.

but this is a perennial gripe of mine about cycling clubs, finding a club run where they ride at a comfortable pace for a newbie and have introductory session rides is next to impossible, the slowest club ride Ive ever found locally to me is still 2-3mph faster than my fastest average speed. I look at some of their times on Strava over the same segments and Im just not even within striking distance of holding onto their back wheels.

whoof

awavey wrote:

[but this is a perennial gripe of mine about cycling clubs, finding a club run where they ride at a comfortable pace for a newbie and have introductory session rides is next to impossible, the slowest club ride Ive ever found locally to me is still 2-3mph faster than my fastest average speed. I look at some of their times on Strava over the same segments and Im just not even within striking distance of holding onto their back wheels.

Reading the original post they are averaging 25 mph on the flat. That doesn't sound like a club run to me sounds like a chain-gang. The club I currently ride with have a club run (60-70 miles) on a Sunday averaging 15-16 mph on lumpy terrain. There is also a faster group (18 -20 mph ave) and a slower group (13-14 mph ave). There are also separate chain gangs and these rides are nearing 25 mph average once they are warmed up.

markhewitt1978

awavey wrote:

but this is a perennial gripe of mine about cycling clubs, finding a club run where they ride at a comfortable pace for a newbie and have introductory session rides is next to impossible, the slowest club ride Ive ever found locally to me is still 2-3mph faster than my fastest average speed. I look at some of their times on Strava over the same segments and Im just not even within striking distance of holding onto their back wheels.

It's a problem with a lot of clubs and has been a problem with our club for a long while too. This year we've been doing 'steady rides' once a month which are intended for new riders. The pace kept deliberately low, but it's still difficult when many riders want to go faster, do longer distances etc.

g00se

The problem with riding at the back is apparent on corners. The front slows and the whole group have to slow too. However, out of the corner, the front can get on the speed earlier so the group stretches. If you're at the back - and especially if you're unsure as to predicting the acceleration of the wheel in front as the road straightens - then you're much more likely to drop off group the pack.

Once you're off the back, you're doing as much work as the guys in front just to keep the gap the same - as there's no-one towing you along. You're working harder than anyone in the pack to catch them up.

Best try to sit in the middle, but I would suggest a smaller group where you can get a better relationship with the one's you're riding with - and pick up tips and technique that way.

sheffsimon

It does sound like a chain gang, holding those sort of speeds.

If so, he isn't going to be sitting in the middle, nor should he be sat at the back.

If you can't come through drop off the back, you're done for the night, or if you don't feel confident about coming through, then find a different group to train with.

Nowt worse than somebody sat at the back of the line, you never know whether you should be jumping on the wheel coming past.

Bobbinogs

There is something strange about this one. I just cannot picture a chaingang of 30-40 riders as the line would be so long that it would be inevitably yo-yoing all over the place, even with decent riders. There are not many clubs who could turnout that many riders for a group ride of 25mph ride even on the flats and the OP getting dropped due to a mechanical does reinforce the chaingang option rather than a group ride...but 30-40 riders, jeesh!

I would expect everyone to be fighting to get near the front or middle (which kind of undermines the 'working together' that makes a good chaingang click) as everyone would be afraid of doing a big turn, peeling off right, going to the back only to watch the group disappear after the first corner. Maybe it keeps the numbers down as I would expect only half to finish together

scott_w1987

SheffSimon wrote:

It does sound like a chain gang, holding those sort of speeds.

If so, he isn't going to be sitting in the middle, nor should he be sat at the back.

If you can't come through drop off the back, you're done for the night, or if you don't feel confident about coming through, then find a different group to train with.

Nowt worse than somebody sat at the back of the line, you never know whether you should be jumping on the wheel coming past.

Agreed.

Bobbinogs wrote:

There is something strange about this one. I just cannot picture a chaingang of 30-40 riders as the line would be so long that it would be inevitably yo-yoing all over the place, even with decent riders. There are not many clubs who could turnout that many riders for a group ride of 25mph ride even on the flats and the OP getting dropped due to a mechanical does reinforce the chaingang option rather than a group ride...but 30-40 riders, jeesh!

I would expect everyone to be fighting to get near the front or middle (which kind of undermines the 'working together' that makes a good chaingang click) as everyone would be afraid of doing a big turn, peeling off right, going to the back only to watch the group disappear after the first corner. Maybe it keeps the numbers down as I would expect only half to finish together

A busy Tuesday night chaingang in Edinburgh can see the fast group having around that amount of riders and it really is organised chaos. Lot's of people not working making it worse for others as you have to bury yourself to get passed the fast line so you can actually work at the front.

DeVlaeminck

There's a grey area some rides fall into - they aren't through and off more just a fast group ride with the strong pushing the pace and the weaker hanging in - whether they are a chain gang depends how you define chain gang but my guess is is ride is one of those. There's a weekend ride like that round here, can be good fun if you have the legs and the speed is such most riders on it have enough experience to make it relatively safe - like any ride you'll get one or two you have to watch.

t4tomo

awavey wrote:

whoof wrote:

As others above have said, learn to ride in a group then learn to ride fast in a group. Find a club run where they ride together at a comfortable pace. You can then concentrate on positioning in the group and holding a wheel rather being on the limit. Once this feels natural consider going out with a faster group.

but this is a perennial gripe of mine about cycling clubs, finding a club run where they ride at a comfortable pace for a newbie and have introductory session rides is next to impossible, the slowest club ride Ive ever found locally to me is still 2-3mph faster than my fastest average speed. I look at some of their times on Strava over the same segments and Im just not even within striking distance of holding onto their back wheels.

And those in that group would also struggle to do within 2mph of what they can do in a well drilled group.

sloppyschleckonds

Bobbinogs wrote:

There is something strange about this one. I just cannot picture a chaingang of 30-40 riders as the line would be so long that it would be inevitably yo-yoing all over the place, even with decent riders. There are not many clubs who could turnout that many riders for a group ride of 25mph ride even on the flats and the OP getting dropped due to a mechanical does reinforce the chaingang option rather than a group ride...but 30-40 riders, jeesh!

I would expect everyone to be fighting to get near the front or middle (which kind of undermines the 'working together' that makes a good chaingang click) as everyone would be afraid of doing a big turn, peeling off right, going to the back only to watch the group disappear after the first corner. Maybe it keeps the numbers down as I would expect only half to finish together

Reckon the OP has got his KPH & MPH mixed up?

mmacavity

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insig ... -a-group-0

speedjunkie

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

There is something strange about this one. I just cannot picture a chaingang of 30-40 riders as the line would be so long that it would be inevitably yo-yoing all over the place, even with decent riders. There are not many clubs who could turnout that many riders for a group ride of 25mph ride even on the flats and the OP getting dropped due to a mechanical does reinforce the chaingang option rather than a group ride...but 30-40 riders, jeesh!

I would expect everyone to be fighting to get near the front or middle (which kind of undermines the 'working together' that makes a good chaingang click) as everyone would be afraid of doing a big turn, peeling off right, going to the back only to watch the group disappear after the first corner. Maybe it keeps the numbers down as I would expect only half to finish together

Reckon the OP has got his KPH & MPH mixed up?

a Brief segment of the ride, ridden today , you can go to todays results everyone averaging 24mph + were part of that "poleton" i misused the word chaingang, its more of a poleton indeed with 2, 3 riders lined up, on Saturday it was a 60 persons ride, and the "poleton" would extend for 100 ? 200 meters ?

https://www.strava.com/segments/2491078?filter=overall

53 km at 24.5 mph

Around 30 riders - 35 riders.

speedjunkie

BTW thanks everyone for the tips i went riding with those guys again applyed all the tips and took notice what the other riders were doing , and it was much better, and managed to finish a whole ride.

speedjunkie

Things i learnt. Take my spot inside the group and defend it . Riding middle of the group or slighty ahead its 100x times better than riding in the back.
After big turns and roundabouts the group accelarates big time, expect this.
Do everything smoothly