Build Project - Which Disc Frameset?

arlowood

It's that time of year again when I get those bike building urges :roll:

Over the past 2 years or so I have had great fun and much satisfaction from builds based on alloy (Forme Longcliffe), carbon (2002 era Trek 5200) and with my current bike (Genesis Equilibrium 725 steel).

With the trend seeming to be moving towards disc equipped bikes, I have decided that my next build will be based around a suitable disc frameset.

I have seen potential candidates in:-

Steel
Genesis Equilibrium Disc
Genesis Croix de Fer
Planet X Kaffenback

Alloy
Planet X London Road

Carbon
Kinesis Crosslight Pro6
Planet X Pro Carbon XLS
Tifosi CK2 Corsa Carbon

Any thoughts on the above choices or are there other options out there that I have missed. Probably looking to spend up to around £700 max for the frame + forks.

With my experience of the Equilibrium frame on my current bike I'm swaying towards the Equilibrium Disc or the Croix de Fer but I guess they will have some weight penalty associated. To add to that the discs and disc wheelsets will be an added weight penalty so perhaps I should be looking at alloy or carbon to balance things out.

Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated

src1

For steel, how about the Ritchey Swiss cross disk?

The kinesis pro 6 is aluminium, not carbon afaik - still a very good choice though.

The one that's most tempted me recently is the Bowman Pilgrims.

Ber Nard

I'd hold fire to see what the new Mason frames will be like. And Kinesis are due to release new disc frames, too.

arlowood

SRC1 wrote:

For steel, how about the Ritchey Swiss cross disk?

The kinesis pro 6 is aluminium, not carbon afaik - still a very good choice though.

The one that's most tempted me recently is the Bowman Pilgrims.

The Ritchey looks nice but it maybe pushes my budget a bit too far unless I can pick up a 2nd hand example.

You're right - the Kinesis Pro6 is alloy - my error.

Just checked out the Bowman Pilgrim - looks great but I notice the spec indicates a PF86 BB - not a huge fan of pressfit BB's so would prefer to stick with standard BSA set up

ugo.santalucia

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-fo ... meset-p567

bendertherobot

How desperate are you to start now?
http://www.condorcycles.com/Audax-Commu ... e.tpl.html

Though, really, you just need to get the Swiss Cross

letap73

What about this - Genesis as well:

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b185s899 ... S_GB/34332

ugo.santalucia

letap73 wrote:

What about this - Genesis as well:

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b185s899 ... S_GB/34332

I've had it for 16 months... very racey geometry... the fork failed early on and Madison didn't have a spare... had to get a Planet X one (no longer available). Other than that, I love it

veronese68

The Genesis Fugio is nice and will take wider tyres than the Equilibrium for sure and possibly the Croix de Fer as well. On the subject of steel frames what about the Cotic Esdcapade? Looks nice in the pale blue, I just built up a Solaris in that colour and it's lovely.
The Kinesis is a great bike, still loving mine.

Twelly

+1 Escapade, no regrets with mine

cycleclinic

I have a euilibrium disc (ti version) and it is a great bike. I have not ridden the steel version yet but it has the same geometry. 31mm tyres fit in this frame and thats what I was riding on, on sunday. The croix der fer is a fine bike but is more a touring/do it all frame. It may be a CX bike but does not have the CX race geometry that the Fugio has.
The equilbirum is a road bike but given the clearance I would have no trouble taking it down farm roads and the like. Oh I will be doing that in April.

The tifosi frame is for rim brakes so what that doing in the list.

arlowood

ugo.santalucia wrote:

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-forks-c6/cyclocross-frames-c49/all-city-macho-man-disc-frameset-p567

Ugo - the All City looks good and could be a contender

ugo.santalucia wrote:

letap73 wrote:

What about this - Genesis as well:

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b185s899 ... S_GB/34332

I've had it for 16 months... very racey geometry... the fork failed early on and Madison didn't have a spare... had to get a Planet X one (no longer available). Other than that, I love it

The Fugio is an interesting option but I'm concerned that the geometry might be a bit too race orientated for my aging bones. Also the problem you mentioned with the fork failure and replacement issues puts me off a bit.

Veronese68 wrote:

The Genesis Fugio is nice and will take wider tyres than the Equilibrium for sure and possibly the Croix de Fer as well. On the subject of steel frames what about the Cotic Esdcapade? Looks nice in the pale blue, I just built up a Solaris in that colour and it's lovely.
The Kinesis is a great bike, still loving mine.

The Cotic is nice but no stock available ATM - new stock expected in March

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have a euilibrium disc (ti version) and it is a great bike. I have not ridden the steel version yet but it has the same geometry. 31mm tyres fit in this frame and thats what I was riding on, on sunday. The croix der fer is a fine bike but is more a touring/do it all frame. It may be a CX bike but does not have the CX race geometry that the Fugio has.
The equilbirum is a road bike but given the clearance I would have no trouble taking it down farm roads and the like. Oh I will be doing that in April.

The tifosi frame is for rim brakes so what that doing in the list.

Based on Malcolm's comments I'm being swayed a bit towards the Equilibrium Disc. And he's correct - the Tifosi is a standard road frame not disc so my error again for the inclusion

maddog 2

what sort of riding is it for?

Not much point in building a relatively heavy, steel do-it-all if you're just gonna be riding regular roads...

arlowood

maddog 2 wrote:

what sort of riding is it for?

Not much point in building a relatively heavy, steel do-it-all if you're just gonna be riding regular roads...

As with my current riding, it will be predominantly for recreational and fitness purposes on regular roads with one or two sportives thrown in when convenient. Might be tempted to try some trails and towpaths with the broader capability of the disc frame set up. Currently riding a 2012 all steel Equilibrium so I'm used to the weight penalty and don't really mind it as I'm not racing or busting a gut for Strava PB's

Will try and work out if the stats permit what the overall weight difference will between, say, the Equilibrium Disc and something like the alloy Kinesis Crosslight Pro6 or the carbon Planet X Pro Carbon XLS.

arlowood

Just done a quick check on frame + fork weights for 3 of the possible options on my list:-

Equilibrium Road Disc:- 3.0kg

Kinesis Crosslight Pro6:- 2.3kg

Planet X Pro Carbon XLS:- 2.0kg

So not too much between the steel and alloy options but about 1kg between steel and carbon.

Still, being realistic, I could probably do with shedding more than that weight differential from my lardy 89kg bodyweight.

Jury's still out on which way to go

bendertherobot

I have an XLS. It's very nice.

You could stick Force on that, some handbuilts and be comfortably in the region of 8kg or so.

It's comfy, stiff, nice.

But, as a best bike, it can look a little odd with even 28's on. It needs 32c or so to look normal. So if you want to run 25c if can look a little under tyred.

silverpigeon

Based on those weights you've stated there is plenty difference between steel and alloy.

Crosslight Pro6 would be my choice - actually it already was - and I'll finish it this weekend before posting pics.

But only in the sick green

cycleclinic

Expect the equilibrium steel bike to weigh in at 9 to 10kg. The fork is quite heavy. My own bike is 9kg but if I changed the fork to a ritchey and removed the heavy challange strada tyres and fitted some schwable one tubeless tyres and a few other things I could save 1kg . Really though what is the point the bike is fine as it is.

The XLS weighing in at 8kg sounds quite reasonable and the tyre size comment will be common for all CX bikes.

As you have pointed out if you are not racing being observe about bike weight does nothing to improve the enjoyment of the ride.

veronese68

My Pro6 was 9kg on the pallet scales at work. That's not trying too hard to be a weight weenie. Built with 105, BB7 brakes and Open Pro rims on Novatec hubs and what I suspect are fairy average bars and seatpost. To me it feels light, I've not owned a lighter bike. But it has to be in green, had it nearly 2 years now and still chuffed with it.

maddog 2

just to stick in another perspective... my full carbon Hongfu disc roadie is 7.5kg.

ugo.santalucia

maddog 2 wrote:

just to stick in another perspective... my full carbon Hongfu disc roadie is 7.5kg.

Although the project itself might be a bit of an acquired taste... when you have to pray that the calibration of the torque wrench is accurate every time you tighten a bolt, that might spoil the fun a bit, maybe?

shing83

I would go with the Equilibrium Disc or the Croix de Fer (2015 with carbon forks), I went with the latter. It's a great frame for doing everything, and with the money saved from the other pricier options, you can get Shimano's hydraulic mechanical discs brakes for good measure.

veronese68

maddog 2 wrote:

just to stick in another perspective... my full carbon Hongfu disc roadie is 7.5kg.

I'd be better off dropping something from my 80kg before worrying about the bike. :oops:
I really do use my bike for all purposes though. At the moment it has 32mm tyres and mudguards for commuting, I've also fitted 41mm tyres and done an 80 mile off road ride on it. Put skinny tyres on it and it's a reasonable road bike. For my purposes the versatility is more important than weight. But the OP may well have different priorities.

bendertherobot

I wonder if a tipping point is coming. The arrival of discs is gaining momentum and there appears to be a ground swell of realisation that a UCI weight carbon steed, for most of us, is simply a luxury. And, in this country, tends to be garaged more often than not.

My plan now, if I can shift my frame, is to go Ritchey Road disc. So, effectively, 3 CX bikes. Good, bad, and ugly (conditions). I'm 42 now. Hardly in my prime. They will all give me pleasure.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

I wonder if a tipping point is coming. The arrival of discs is gaining momentum and there appears to be a ground swell of realisation that a UCI weight carbon steed, for most of us, is simply a luxury. And, in this country, tends to be garaged more often than not.

My plan now, if I can shift my frame, is to go Ritchey Road disc. So, effectively, 3 CX bikes. Good, bad, and ugly (conditions). I'm 42 now. Hardly in my prime. They will all give me pleasure.

I got to the same conclusion when I was younger than you... that makes me a trend setter... 8)

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

I wonder if a tipping point is coming. The arrival of discs is gaining momentum and there appears to be a ground swell of realisation that a UCI weight carbon steed, for most of us, is simply a luxury. And, in this country, tends to be garaged more often than not.

My plan now, if I can shift my frame, is to go Ritchey Road disc. So, effectively, 3 CX bikes. Good, bad, and ugly (conditions). I'm 42 now. Hardly in my prime. They will all give me pleasure.

I got to the same conclusion when I was younger than you... that makes me a trend setter... 8)

You're just old before your time

So, if my plan comes off, what wheels should I get you to build?

arlowood

bendertherobot wrote:

I have an XLS. It's very nice.

You could stick Force on that, some handbuilts and be comfortably in the region of 8kg or so.

It's comfy, stiff, nice.

But, as a best bike, it can look a little odd with even 28's on. It needs 32c or so to look normal. So if you want to run 25c if can look a little under tyred.

Yes I've seen the pics in the Your Road Bikes forum - looks great - especially like the Flanders design.

Not used SRAM before so will probably be sticking with Shimano - looking to go 11 speed (105 5800). Not fully decided on wheels yet but may go the handbuilt route.

Just a couple of queries for those out there more au fait with disc wheels. I see wheels being offered with options of 6-bolt INTL or Centrelock. Can someone explain the difference.

As far as issues with the "best bike" appearance - it will be my only bike as the current Equilibrium will be stripped and sold off to offset the cost of the new build. I'm not that bothered about whether the bike will look "under tyred" as long as it rides well.

Also does anyone know if the Tifosi CK6 is available as a frame + forks only package

http://www.tifosicycles.co.uk/ck6.php

bendertherobot

As far as I can see there's no performance benefit to centrelock. It's just "easier" to install. If you have the tools etc.

TBH I don't find putting 6 bolts in that troublesome.

A quick google suggests that 6 bolt hubs can break at the bolt attachment. I doubt that it's very common.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

As far as I can see there's no performance benefit to centrelock. It's just "easier" to install. If you have the tools etc.

TBH I don't find putting 6 bolts in that troublesome.

A quick google suggests that 6 bolt hubs can break at the bolt attachment. I doubt that it's very common.

In theory centrelock is a safer method, but in practice it limits your choice of components to Shimano or expensive alternatives. If it becomes mainstream, so that Hope and Novatec offer a wide range as well as disc rotors, then fine, otherwise I prefer to have options. In five years I have never had problems with hubs or bolts, so no reason to change any time soon

meesterbond

On the mountain bike side I've been using Centrelock hubs for years and they work just as well as 6 bolt ones but unless you're forever swapping rotors out there's no real advantage. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the tool needed for the centrelock lockring was the same as for the HT2 BB so at least I didn't need to buy another tool to fit them.

bendertherobot

Yeah, saw that regarding the BB tool. Fair play, it would have been so easy to make it a different standard.