Dogma verses a giant propel? Help urgent!

mallorcajeff

Been torn between a new bike to ride in the uk. Got the offer of two bikes and i love both but can decide?
What would you pick. Pinarello dogma 60.1 with campag chorus 11 carbon geoupset, or giant propel (base model frame) with ultegra 11 sp. both in good condition.
Need to decide tomorrow?
I wanted and aero bike but have always fancied a dogma. Are they old hat now? Propel comes with their own 50mm wheels where ad the pinarello comes with cheap os to be replaced?

bikes`n`guns

I`ve yet to see a Giant bike I like.

mallorcajeff

The propel does look nice but i want a good ride. The dogma has a bit more history to it but the propel did get boty 2014i think?

w00dster

Never rode on either, so can only give advice on appearance.
Personally I still think the Dogmas look great. Like Bikes N Guns I've never seen a Giant that I like, but lots of people on here with Propels seem to enjoy them.
The wheels may be the deciding factor, will you be able to put some decent wheels on the dogma any time soon?

flasher

Not ridden either and I don't like the wavy forks, and it may be a worse ride, but I'd still go for the Dogma, it has a class that Giant doesn't have.

mallorcajeff

Going to try both on saturday and pick one. Cheers guys

Omar Little

Giant are one of the market leaders in carbon bike manufacturing.

Pinarello on the other hand are not. Im not sure if they still sub contract Giant to make their frames for them, but it was the case a few years ago. Likewise Scott, Colnago (below the C60), Ridley, Trek and a few others. That appeals to me and is one of the reasons i am swaying towards getting a Propel as my new race bike.

mallorcajeff

Thanks omar

Wheelspinner

Omar Little wrote:

Giant are one of the market leaders in carbon bike manufacturing.

Pinarello on the other hand are not. Im not sure if they still sub contract Giant to make their frames for them, but it was the case a few years ago. Likewise Scott, Colnago (below the C60), Ridley, Trek and a few others. That appeals to me and is one of the reasons i am swaying towards getting a Propel as my new race bike.

Misleading waffle. Pinarello, Colnago, Ridley etc may not be "market leaders in carbon manufacturing", but so what? They are certainly some of the best designers of carbon bikes - they just have them made by others.

OP, buy the one that rides and fits you best.

Omar Little

Wheelspinner wrote:

Misleading waffle. Pinarello, Colnago, Ridley etc may not be "market leaders in carbon manufacturing", but so what? They are certainly some of the best designers of carbon bikes - they just have them made by others.

OP, buy the one that rides and fits you best.

I dont think Pinarello design is all that - the bike is pretty heavy (without the aero frame to make up for that) and thesquiggly forks appear to have no functional reason other than to differentiate them on looks from the competition. It will be a good bike (over a certain price point most bikes are) its just i dont believe the price premium they command because of the brands heritage is worth it, unless the manufacture was still connected to that heritage. The likes of Colnago still have that with the c60, an expensive bike but i'd say the premium was worth it, same with Look with their French frames etc.

holiver

mallorcajeff wrote:

Going to try both on saturday and pick one. Cheers guys

This was the right thing to do in the first place.

mallorcajeff

Look like only got the pinarello to try as the guy with giant seems to have vanished iff the face of the earth

Elfed

Won't the Dogma frame have more resale value should you choose to sell on in the future?

DKay

Omar Little wrote:

I dont think Pinarello design is all that - the bike is pretty heavy (without the aero frame to make up for that) and thesquiggly forks appear to have no functional reason other than to differentiate them on looks from the competition. It will be a good bike (over a certain price point most bikes are) its just i dont believe the price premium they command because of the brands heritage is worth it, unless the manufacture was still connected to that heritage. The likes of Colnago still have that with the c60, an expensive bike but i'd say the premium was worth it, same with Look with their French frames etc.

Who cares if the frame weighs an extra 200g more than the lightest other frames? Unless you're racing on the limit, needing that extra 0.1% of performance, you're not going to notice it compared to how the frame handles, rides and reacts under power. All of which the Dogma frame is meant to excel at. With regards to the wavy forks and seat stays, are you using empirical evidence to back up your words, or are you just expressing a personal opinion?

mallorcajeff

Well its back on so trying the both tomorrow. I did also think resale of the pinarello would be better one day but ive already got a top end bike and the giant does feel somewhat of a compromise going from an addict rc with dura ace di2 back to an ultegra 11sp mechanical but that is the object to get a cheaper bike

Omar Little

DKay wrote:

Who cares if the frame weighs an extra 200g more than the lightest other frames? Unless you're racing on the limit, needing that extra 0.1% of performance, you're not going to notice it compared to how the frame handles, rides and reacts under power. All of which the Dogma frame is meant to excel at. With regards to the wavy forks and seat stays, are you using empirical evidence to back up your words, or are you just expressing a personal opinion?

Like i said it will be good bike - over a certain price point then as long as the geometry is suitable for your needs (in this case race bike geometry) then you have to be pretty unlucky to get a poor bike. I have no empirical evidence about the forks but i didnt see Pinarello give any evidence either other than marketing bollocks. The waves have almost been eliminated on the F8. My comment on Pinarello was about the value of the bike, not the bike being crap.

End of the day if the OP ends up choosing a Dogma then he'll be getting a good bike that will give him alot of enjoyment to ride. One caveat i'll add is that if the purchase is going to be second hand and you dont know the seller then have a look for a serial number on the Dogma and email Pinarello about it just to make sure it is the real thing. They'll respond pretty quickly.

letap73

Flasher wrote:

Not ridden either and I don't like the wavy forks, and it may be a worse ride, but I'd still go for the Dogma, it has a class that Giant doesn't have.

+1

Yes definitely buy the Dogma, it might have a dodgy fork, ride worse, have by far the more expensive frame, ignore the Giant fan boys who might talk about great ride quality, highly rated in reviews blah blah etc. The Dogma is no dog it has true class.

letap73

mallorcajeff wrote:

Look like only got the pinarello to try as the guy with giant seems to have vanished iff the face of the earth

If it rides well - and I know you know your bikes and the price is right then it is probably a no brainer.

ilm_zero7

the Giant is dull , dull dull - get a better looking aero bike if you want aero - or the F8

mjbennett

Regardless of what people think about the dogma having never ridden one, I am certain that when you ride one your mind will be made up. Having had loads of bikes over the years, the dogma is probably the best I've ridden. The only one that comes close is a colnago eps I had, which incidentally was made in italy, as was the c59, and the extreme power etc etc etc etc.. Omar, it's only the newer, cheaper colnago's that are no longer made in Italy.

Good luck, and let the forum know your choice and why.

Thanks

bernithebiker

mjbennett wrote:

Having had loads of bikes over the years, the dogma is probably the best I've ridden.

May I ask why?

mallorcajeff

The deals done. Ive gone italian and its a thing of beauty, i will be taking the campy groupset off though as its not my thing. Pick her up next week. Something different. Thanks for alll your input guys. The reason i went for that one is not quite the reason i was looking for but i simply couldnt be ar5ed to drive sll the way to the other one. And once i saw how nice the pinarello was the deal was done. Now need to sell the scott!

napoleond

If you have a surplus 175mm chorus compact chainset, let me know

ilm_zero7

taking Campag off an italian bike ! ... and for something inferior ! madness

holiver

Blasphemy!

mallorcajeff

Personal choice at the end if the day and i dont the feel of the shape of campag hoods. May go against the grain for some puros but i have to ride it so comfort over trwdition wins out for me

Mccaria

Nice choice. I have a Dogma 60.1 and really like it, don't seem to feel the extra weight particularly and it rides well. I have just stripped the 7900 to update it to 9000.

mallorcajeff

Same as im putting on it. Hopefully be a nice ride. Thanks

jordan_217

Wheelspinner wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

Giant are one of the market leaders in carbon bike manufacturing.

Pinarello on the other hand are not. Im not sure if they still sub contract Giant to make their frames for them, but it was the case a few years ago. Likewise Scott, Colnago (below the C60), Ridley, Trek and a few others. That appeals to me and is one of the reasons i am swaying towards getting a Propel as my new race bike.

Misleading waffle. Pinarello, Colnago, Ridley etc may not be "market leaders in carbon manufacturing", but so what? They are certainly some of the best designers of carbon bikes - they just have them made by others.

OP, buy the one that rides and fits you best.

Ridley get their frames made in the same factory as Scott and Giant IIRC.