David Millar's 'swan song'
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There is something likeable about Millar, but at the same time everything seems a bit contrived ... I guess that happens when you have Brailsford and Vaughters as puppetmasters to your ressurection.
Also not sure about the whole Slipstream part-ownership malarky. Seems like a possible way to avoid paying more to the IVA he entered into to me. If this was the case, hardly the way of the true British Gent he portrays himself as.Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
Big fan.
Always enjoyed him race, and actually enjoyed his interviews. His FT lunch is legend in their office.
Think all the 'you doped - i hate you' lot don't actually like cycling. And people who say there is no middle ground really don't understand cycling or indeed what 'relativism' is.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Big fan.
Always enjoyed him race, and actually enjoyed his interviews. His FT lunch is legend in their office.
Think all the 'you doped - i hate you' lot don't actually like cycling. And people who say there is no middle ground really don't understand cycling or indeed what 'relativism' is.
This times quite a lot.
Lock the thread and throw away the key.0 -
Sometimes I envy people who are able to see everything in black & white, I imagine it makes life much simpler.0
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Well said, there is a place for these people. It's called the clinic!Rick Chasey wrote:Big fan.
Always enjoyed him race, and actually enjoyed his interviews. His FT lunch is legend in their office.
Think all the 'you doped - i hate you' lot don't actually like cycling. And people who say there is no middle ground really don't understand cycling or indeed what 'relativism' is.0 -
Cycling is possibly the toughest professional support in the world. The physical demands we as lay people couldn't even imagine. Travelling from February to October with pressure from DS's and sponsors. Only a couple of dozen cyclists every year win a GT or a classic or a semi-classic. If you aren't at the very top and in the limelight, you are probably working very hard for your living.
Although not justifiable, taking supplements is explainable. Imagine the hypothetical where an upcoming Belgian teenager signs for a pro-am squad and in his first year gets no where. Buried into the ground by his peers and his soigneur says to him "If you don't take these, or take that, you won't get anywhere". The dreams of a young man disintegrate in a moral maze to which he has been forced into.
For those who label cheats in such a fashion, then lets omit all records by Eddy Merckx, Roger De Vlaeminck etc etc in an act of a flawed moral relativism. There are those who took it too far and the EPO era is hopefully dead but read Willy Vloets book and it paints a different picture.
I think that the purveyors of the drugs should be as liable as those who take it but the pressures on the individual in a very tough sport is such that it is tempting for some - especially if the future is off the back and obscurity.
I firmly believe that the scrutiny of cyclists is so great and so frequent that it makes other sports look clean. I'll eat my hat if the vast majority of Olympic athletes aren't on something. Chinese women weighing 48kg's clean and jerking 170 kg's ?! I only wish the IOC would test athletes as often as they test cyclists. After the fallout from the Festina affair, I could imagine that the IOC quietly pretended that everything in the garden was rosy, thereby sweeping everything under the carpet - petrified by the same fallout that cycling experienced and the worse was to come (Re. LA). I wish they had taken a stance in '98 and it would have probably blown the lid in the whole fraternity and the insidious web that supports the whole process of artificial enhancement.
Just my two pence worth, sorry if it dragged on.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Not sure if it's been posted yet
Daily Telegraph Podcast
https://audioboom.com/boos/2560434-shor ... hill-climb“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Millar cheated, got caught, fessed up (how many others have done that?) No excuses, not blaming his dog or his steak or his mother in Law, or the drinks he had the night before. He admitted it and came back as an anti drugs campaigner. Why not? He can point to having been there done that, and this is why you should not.
Before his bust he always looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights, since his comeback he always looked like he was enjoying his racing.
If you realy dislike dopers why not save your bile for the many convicted cheats, still riding, who have never admitted there guilt and never shown any remorse, unlike Millar.0 -
mike6 wrote:
If you realy dislike dopers why not save your bile for the many convicted cheats, still riding, who have never admitted there guilt and never shown any remorse, unlike Millar.
My fav is Contador saying drug cheats should get lifetime bans... after having served a doping ban.0 -
Millar cheated like everyone else did at that time. What I don't like about him is the fact he ar%e licked is way back into cycling trying to make us believe that he can help clean up the sport, Its not fu%king working
Then not long after his whole team including Vaughters [who by the way confessed to doping to the New York Times but forgot to mention his name] had to confess under testimony [ if they lie they get done for perjury] that they doped and it was Armstrongs fault " he made us do it" Millar seemed very quiet about the fact the most of his team and manager had doped before they had to confess under oath. UNDER OATH. They could have confessed when the team was formed with Millar on board. A clean start and all that but no they only coughed up the dirt when forced to. Oh and then we have Ryder's confession years after he doped because he was being outed by Chicken. Millar really did a good job all the way to his bank balance. 0 -
rayjay? Is that you?0
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Rick Chasey wrote:Big fan.
Always enjoyed him race, and actually enjoyed his interviews. His FT lunch is legend in their office.
Think all the 'you doped - i hate you' lot don't actually like cycling. And people who say there is no middle ground really don't understand cycling or indeed what 'relativism' is.
When you say " middle ground" what you mean is that some ex dopers you like and some you don't.
You cheated or you didn't.
"His FT lunch is legend in their office" He may have doped but what a nice guy
Your post is typical of the hypocrisy in cycling0 -
That lunch bill...
From; http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/bdff9f60-a1b9 ... z3GPevlRrB
Sparkling water x 2 £9.00
Pilsner beer £4.75
Bottle of Viognier Sainte-Fleur 2008 x 2 £98.00
Seared scallops £16.50
Smoked salmon £14.25
Fillet of cod x 2 £43.50
Chips £4.00
Green beans with shallots £4.75
Raspberry Eton mess £8.50
Gooseberry crème brûlée £7.50
Beaumes de Venise 2007 £9.25
Château Partarrieu 2007 £12.00
Espresso x 2 £6.00
Covers x 2 £4.00
Total (including service) £272.250 -
schmolke wrote:They could have confessed when the team was formed with Millar on board. A clean start...
How do you imagine that would have worked?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
mike6 wrote:Millar cheated, got caught, fessed up (how many others have done that?) No excuses, not blaming his dog or his steak or his mother in Law, or the drinks he had the night before. He admitted it and came back as an anti drugs campaigner. Why not? He can point to having been there done that, and this is why you should not.
Before his bust he always looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights, since his comeback he always looked like he was enjoying his racing.
If you realy dislike dopers why not save your bile for the many convicted cheats, still riding, who have never admitted there guilt and never shown any remorse, unlike Millar.
Are we allowed to dislike them all equally?
Also, do we really know Millar has "fessed up" to everything? No excuses? His story about winning certain races clean "to prove he could do it" sounds very similar to Armstrong re comeback no.2 to me. I don't mind the guy, its just a sport that I follow and I can't got too emotionally involved with who is / isn't cheating, but you perhaps need to stand back and look at things a bit more objectively. I really don't buy into the "he's a good doper" argument - he'll never be as good a guy as all those who didn't dope who he beat to a finish / contract if that's what you are basing things on.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:schmolke wrote:They could have confessed when the team was formed with Millar on board. A clean start...
How do you imagine that would have worked?
I would imagine they confess and then explain that this is a new team full of ex doped riders trying to start a fresh [I'm laughing while I type this ] and it's Armstrong's fault we had to dope please forgive us and let us race
Vaughters should run the UCI. He can make doping go away like the Fifa does0 -
There are so many people who post on BR who must never have made a mistake or done anything wrong in their lives. Chapeau.0
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jimmythecuckoo wrote:There are so many people who post on BR who must never have made a mistake or done anything wrong in their lives. Chapeau.
Well then forgive Armstrong, forgive Pantani, forgive DI luca forgive Merckx but don't pick and choose which cheat you are going to forgive. Its nothing to do with doping more about some people on here having a man crush 0 -
I work in financial services. What Millar did was equivalent of me committing fraud. If I did - I'd have a lifetime ban.jimmythecuckoo wrote:There are so many people who post on BR who must never have made a mistake or done anything wrong in their lives. Chapeau.
My main issue with Millar - and I quite like him - is his endless "reconciliation" claptrap. Completely at odds with my view which is ban the cheats and ban them hard - pros, ex pros, owners - get them all out of the sport. Get them off TV as well. W@nkers the lot.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Not really. There is no legal regulation in sport. Fraud is a criminal offence. Doping is not.0
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He was under oath for possible Fraud though. It was considered possible that Lance was diverting USPS funds to buy drugs. That case was dropped as once the funds were paid to the team, they could do what they want (in the same way you can buy coke with your salary, but your company can't buy you coke).
I think the UCI and other organisations got hold so did have legal cases - didn't the ASO explicitly state he had to be clean to get his bonus? If it turned out he wasn't, that was fraud - defrauding the ASO of money stating he was clean when he wasn't.
The doping itself was no criminal offence, as I said.0 -
coriordan wrote:He was under oath for possible Fraud though. It was considered possible that Lance was diverting USPS funds to buy drugs. That case was dropped as once the funds were paid to the team, they could do what they want (in the same way you can buy coke with your salary, but your company can't buy you coke).
I think the UCI and other organisations got hold so did have legal cases - didn't the ASO explicitly state he had to be clean to get his bonus? If it turned out he wasn't, that was fraud - defrauding the ASO of money stating he was clean when he wasn't.
The doping itself was no criminal offence, as I said.
It was just a point about how stupid the whole Armstrong affair was and what a waste of time and money it was and it has done nothing to stop doping.
Even more so with Nibs team mates getting busted. Tygart was the worse thing to happen to cycling besides Wiggins [ No reason I just don't like him]0 -
It's a specific offence in Italy and France. Also Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Greece, Hungary Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Spain Sweden China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mexico, New Zealand, Nicaragua and Tunisia have enacted sports specific legislation that criminalises the trafficking of WADC Prohibited Substances and Methods.coriordan wrote:Not really. There is no legal regulation in sport. Fraud is a criminal offence. Doping is not.'Hello to Jason Isaacs'0 -
I stand corrected. Sorry0
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Well what a great celebration of Millar's career this thread has turned out to be, silly season is obviously here. Is "The Truth" back under a different guise?0
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Paul 8v wrote:Well what a great celebration of Millar's career this thread has turned out to be, silly season is obviously here. Is "The Truth" back under a different guise?
Some people have jumped on the holier-than-thou bandwagon and there have been/are plenty of threads to discuss doping in cycling.
Time to lock the thread?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
No reason to lock it.
Millar himself admits there are parts of the 'cycling fan community' (I have made my opinions clear on them) who will never forgive him for his doping past.
This is evidence of it.
Granted they have a much higher prosperity to wear tinfoil hats and hate the world because they hate it, but that's their problem ultimately, not ours.0
