How does your club deal with riders who can be dangerous ?

Serious Cat

I was out on a 50 mile club run yesterday morning and I witnessed some mannerisms that put the idea for this thread into my head. There is one very experienced rider with natural leadership tendencies who is a bit mother goose who really hammers the safety points and proper group riding techniques home. Whilst on the roads yesterday I witnessed one older rider in the outside line who was getting hammered by the crosswind , he simply pointed at the inner line and without looking he cut in, forced riders behind him and in the inner line to brake hard and I just don't know how an accident didn't happen :shock: .

There is also a hill en route that the riders use as a dash for the café and its a first to the top kind of thing, well we all went for it and this new guy whom Ive never seen before cut straight across my front wheel and must have missed wheels rubbing by mm`s :shock: A guy beside me was open mouthed and said what a cXXt , again another very close miss. Its almost getting tour de france like in that spills and shunts are happening with greater frequency and we have had broken femurs, collarbones etc in our club this year.

Dangerous cycling characteristics in your club, do you witness this or not and what action does your club take if it occurs. Tell the board about dangerous or reckless riding you have observed on club runs please and the types of riders who are the main culprits.

arran77

See the advice offered from Ste_S in this thread I found the other day

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12556336

Don't ever ride with a club myself but I'd guess it's as much the responsibility of the more experienced club riders to guide those less experienced as far as do's and don'ts are concerned as it is the less experienced riders to learn what to do?

Bar Shaker

It would be for the ride leader to have a word with him. It may be inexperience, it may be that he is over competitive. It could be he is new to your club because he was asked not to ride again with his last club. These things are best nipped in the bud quickly.

Club runs are for fun and anyone endangering the other riders should be quickly brought up to speed regarding the standard that is expected of them.

homers_double

Club the ****er.

dabber

Personally, I wouldn't be waiting for the ride leader to have had a chance to have a word with him (although I would inform him at the earliest opportunity). I'd be having a word with the offender myself. I'd want dangerous behaviour snipped in the bud as quickly as possible especially if the person in question keeps repeating their misdemeanor and is putting myself and others in jepardy.

Secteur

Who needs company when riding anyway?

Davidjohnb

New member riding pushed up on me on the inside kerb side, pushing me out, no warning, I told him immediately don't come up on the narrow side and if there is room (in this case there wasn't) shout and let the rider know where your coming from. When we stopped for coffee I discussed the matter with him.

Omar Little

If it is a new rider then have a quiet word with them - they might not know they are doing something wrong, and they will likely be more responsive taking on the advise one to one rather than getting shouted at for being a c**t!

If its a someone who is a longer standing member then its a bit more tricky as a bit of advise can often be taken the wrong way. However there is is one rider in my club, very vocal in his advise and pointing out the errors of others (plus a BC coach) so normally i would just pass the buck and get him to have a word as part of his coaching role, he likes to feel important that way plus it means i can avoid looking like a moaning c0ck

Joeblack

We have had loads of this recently, and the facebook page has been buzzing with people wading in with their opinions, I personally have only been riding with a group for this season but I have quickly picked up the do's and dont's of club riding.

Tbh there isnt a lot to pick up and most of its common sense, communication and awareness (things I learnt previously in the army) but it still pays to talk to people doing things you don't agree with. Half wheeling on the outside is my biggest gripe and iv voiced it a few times during and after the ride to various people without any confrontation, most people will be receptive if you approach the subject properly.

Ultimately everyone* makes mistakes once in a while



*everyone except me

darkhairedlord

I was out on one group ride and I rode about a metre from the verge. There was no room to go two abreast but another rider rode up the inside, I didn't mind or need to do anything, I let the hedge do it for me. Why would you go up the inside? There's a f?cking reason why I'm out from the verge...

kingstonian

homers double wrote:

Club the ****er.

I vote for a blast with a tazer.

mm1

Luke you want to try riding in the "B" group, terrifying at times.

frazered

our club reminds on the agreed calls and signals every ride as part of a briefing 5 moins before set off. also discuss the route and check things such asking folk whether they are new to the sunday run, got ID and splitting groups into different paces.

if anyone does something dangerous or not too clear or dont call out hazards then RC or others will have a polite word.

We have had a few turn up for longer rides with no water or food, newbies who dont have any group riding experience etc they are advised of their errors or coached in a polite but firm manner by the Ride Captain or the more experienced members, all in the interest of welcoming them back when they have seen the error of their ways. If someone is half wheeling or erratic then a polite word, in my experience is all that has been needed, not seen or met anyone who is not receptive or wanting to improve. there are some of the more experienced riders in the club who I have ridden with and know they are a touch hard to ride with, most and myself will let them know if they are hacking us off or erratic. depending on the member the language might be a bit more forceful than others.

Serious Cat

Our club has a ride which openly states its for racing calibre riders , i.e in the realms of 24+ average mph and yes I cant hang with guys like that . An observer be them rider or non-rider would notice those guys ride in a watertight pack cm`s from each others back wheels and its like the equivalent of a marching army regiment but on bikes, and bloody inspirational . The cr@p riding tends to be particularly on sportives where "riders" on rusty mountain bikes cut others up without a glance and inexperienced club members who haven't gone out on the slowest rides to first of all learn the etiquette of good biking.

Monty Dog

I've ridden with people who been cycling for 30 years and they're still rubbish bike-handlers - coming up the inside or dropping back 2 feet when they stand on the pedals - it's part and parcel of riding in an unfamiliar group and essential if riding in sportives or racing in lower categories. A friendly word, such as "did you realise that....?" rather than "don't.."

eric_draven

Kingstonian wrote:

homers double wrote:

Club the ****er.

I vote for a blast with a tazer.

broom shaft or similar in the front wheel,then some kind words of advise,"act like a tw*t we'll treat you like a tw*t"

sub55

it is a bit like driving a car. we all think we are good at it, and it is every body else that is useless.

DavidJB

Serious Cat wrote:

Our club has a ride which openly states its for racing calibre riders , i.e in the realms of 24+ average mph and yes I cant hang with guys like that . An observer be them rider or non-rider would notice those guys ride in a watertight pack cm`s from each others back wheels and its like the equivalent of a marching army regiment but on bikes, and bloody inspirational . The cr@p riding tends to be particularly on sportives where "riders" on rusty mountain bikes cut others up without a glance and inexperienced club members who haven't gone out on the slowest rides to first of all learn the etiquette of good biking.

What terrible training.

volociroldster

Nothing wrong in having a polite and sincere word 'one on one' at the time. Some of these posts seem to re-affirm the blissful solitude of being a soloist. Whilst out the other night i came across a rag tag bunch of 20/30 peloton wannabes, many struggling on a short ramp, many in the wrong lane at the traffic lights and quite a few with what looked like very poor set-ups given the range of assorted riding positions. 3 mamils had stopped for a chat and were feet down in the middle of the road on the gradient whilst holding everyone up when the light was on green. Needless to say it was wise to peel away and disassociate.

Tiesetrotter

Guy on the Ride London was in a group I caught up with of about 20 riders pulled on his breaks, unclips and stops with no indication what so ever. It was wet, most are blinded by the spray and people are doing well over 40kmph on the way out of Dorking ................ I think he was called everything under the sun in English and Italian (from the guy right behind him and his response: ' 'Iss off I can fing stop where I like'.

The other one I saw was on the Ride London was someone pummeling down to a tight left hand corner. The combination of carbon rims and wet weather meant he couldn't do anything but go straight on. He took out two guys who were gingerly turning very slowly and keeping quite rightly on the far outside of the corner. Took out the crash barriers completely.

Didn't see the final outcome, but let's hope he had descent liability insurance.

A friend of mine was seriously hurt the other day. We were doing a chain gang on a velodrome for practice, they have a road bike session. Guy pulls into the race line without looking and stops pedaling. Big messy crash that one .......... especially for him.

rolf_f

Tiesetrotter wrote:

A friend of mine was seriously hurt the other day. We were doing a chain gang on a velodrome for practice, they have a road bike session. Guy pulls into the race line without looking and stops pedaling. Big messy crash that one .......... especially for him.

What velodrome was that - must avoid......

As for carbon rims on Ride 100 - that's why that ride has no appeal for me. Too many imbeciles.

Loretta Damage

Our club offers 3 club rides on a Saturday morning; Skills for newbies to road/group riding, Inters for those with more fitness/experience & Tempo for the more experienced/fitter/racers. Skills & Inters plan route in advance and post on Facebook page on Thu to Fri before ride. Tempo is a bit more "finger in the air" but still well organised by a regular and very experienced Ride Captain. Generally up to individual riders when they move up/down between groups but if its obvious that a rider is struggling in the Tempo group for instance, they will be advised to drop down until they are ready. All this is published on our web page so new/potential members can see upfront what they can expect or contact a club member to seek advice about which group might be right for them. Works well and membership has risen from low 30s to well over 100 in last 2 years, many of these new riders say they enjoy the mentoring/coaching that this tiered, progressional system offers. Another positive is that, touch wood, club rides have been accident free (bar one unfortunate side swipe by a Jag on a roundabout who's driver admitted he was at fault).

holiver

I caught up with a group from the St Helens cycle racing club on Saturday morning going over Billinge Hill. A few went off the back or got out of position on the climb before taking some pretty stupid risks the other side. 4 abreast with 2 in each lane doesn't work well when there is traffic coming the other way!

There didn't seem to be much recompense given for some pretty bad riding and almost being part of an accident when the next major junction was reached.

jgsi

saprkzz

This is why I love the club that I ride with, they have around 30 members , and they all race, even the 60 year old. No one is dangerous and everybody looks out for each other. I have complete trust in all members, which makes our training and club rides enjoyable.

The other club in our town, which I was in, have ride leaders, club secretary, club chairman blah blah blah... I just don't get it.. it attracts all types of riders and the club rides are shocking, people getting dropped, people all over the road, messy group riding, the fast guys sprinting off doing "interval training" on the club rides.. total b****x, hated it!.. Never felt safe with someone on your wheel.

The club I am in now, have a really expensive membership fee, and they only really let people who have race experience join which is awesome and you get to train and ride with Elite riders from the Prem series, down to 4th Cat's. But with everybody who can actually ride in a group.

kingstonian

saprkzz wrote:

This is why I love the club that I ride with, they have around 30 members , and they all race, even the 60 year old. No one is dangerous and everybody looks out for each other. I have complete trust in all members, which makes our training and club rides enjoyable.

The other club in our town, which I was in, have ride leaders, club secretary, club chairman blah blah blah... I just don't get it.. it attracts all types of riders and the club rides are shocking, people getting dropped, people all over the road, messy group riding, the fast guys sprinting off doing "interval training" on the club rides.. total b****x, hated it!.. Never felt safe with someone on your wheel.

The club I am in now, have a really expensive membership fee, and they only really let people who have race experience join which is awesome and you get to train and ride with Elite riders from the Prem series, down to 4th Cat's. But with everybody who can actually ride in a group.

That sounds great - once you can get into the club. My only concern is that with your club there's no mechanism to actually help people get to that level. No one can jump straight into a chaingang right from day 1, they need to learn roadcraft. I guess your club is leaving other clubs to do that piece and then skim off the top.

Having club captains, a chairman etc isn't necessarily a problem, so long as they work in the interests in the club - if they become egotistical nutters then that's clearly an issue and not something I'd be wanting either.

saprkzz

Kingstonian wrote:

saprkzz wrote:

This is why I love the club that I ride with, they have around 30 members , and they all race, even the 60 year old. No one is dangerous and everybody looks out for each other. I have complete trust in all members, which makes our training and club rides enjoyable.

The other club in our town, which I was in, have ride leaders, club secretary, club chairman blah blah blah... I just don't get it.. it attracts all types of riders and the club rides are shocking, people getting dropped, people all over the road, messy group riding, the fast guys sprinting off doing "interval training" on the club rides.. total b****x, hated it!.. Never felt safe with someone on your wheel.

The club I am in now, have a really expensive membership fee, and they only really let people who have race experience join which is awesome and you get to train and ride with Elite riders from the Prem series, down to 4th Cat's. But with everybody who can actually ride in a group.

That sounds great - once you can get into the club. My only concern is that with your club there's no mechanism to actually help people get to that level. No one can jump straight into a chaingang right from day 1, they need to learn roadcraft. I guess your club is leaving other clubs to do that piece and then skim off the top.

Having club captains, a chairman etc isn't necessarily a problem, so long as they work in the interests in the club - if they become egotistical nutters then that's clearly an issue and not something I'd be wanting either.

Yeah totally agree on all points.. they were only a team 2 years ago, so you had 5 guys (Elites/1st's) racing the prem's and international, then the 2nd/3rd/4th's racing locally. And that was it, but they opened up the doors to people who wanted to get quicker and generally looking to race. A 21 year old has joined a couple of months ago, and he will go straight to 1st cat within a season, he went to a 4th cat race last week, never raced before and won it... The club seems to attract people who are motivated and very keen on racing which is great for people like me.

drlodge

Tiesetrotter wrote:

Didn't see the final outcome, but let's hope he had descent liability insurance.

Yes 'cos ascent liability insurance would be no good :shock:

KnightOfTheLongTights

Our club just sent round a massive email alerting members to increasingly poor riding recently and dishing out rules, edicts and advice. Not sure how helpful it will be.
It's a growing problem with the exponential growth of clubs - in London anyway, I don't have much experience of elsewhere.
You get massive numbers turning up for weekend rides, so groups are bigger (which is bad all ways round) and tend to change personnel every week, and there is a greater number of inexperienced riders for each experienced rider. These things mean skills and advice just aren't passed on in the same way, if at all sometimes.
I think it's also true that age and experience do not necessarily mean good - some of the most jittery, unpredictable and annoying riders I've know have been old hands.
Moreover, some riders seem to think calling or pointing out every single pock-mark or drain cover or car in the road is a byword for 'safe' riding. This is rubbish.
If your hands are waving all over the place like semaphore all the time and you are obsessing over every minor irregularity in the road then you aren't concentrating on the actualities of riding.
It's distracting for others and when there is actually something that needs to be avoided it's less likely that you'll be heeded. I think too much signalling / shouting is almost as bad as too little.
Smoothness and predictability are the most important qualities in group riding.

chris_bass

drlodge wrote:

Tiesetrotter wrote:

Didn't see the final outcome, but let's hope he had descent liability insurance.

Yes 'cos ascent liability insurance would be no good :shock:

yeah, the fees can be a bit steep

declan1

Our club is rather small - around 6 regulars - however if new members aren't very good at group riding they are taken around a small quiet loop and are taught the basics. If they're too dangerous they just aren't taken on the club runs.