Di2..2 months along….

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Comments

  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    I think the Di2 mech noise is quite cool, but it's the price that still gets me; I can afford it, but I'm a skinflint at heart, and it just seems too much for too little, still, even with some of the discounts now being applied. (I only buy High 5 gels half price!)

    Alot of the cash you're paying is for the research, because the shifters must be ALOT cheaper to produce (there's just 2 buttons inside), the cabling is cheaper, and the mechs just have a little servo motor in them, which you could probably find at Maplins for about a tenner.

    If I can get the shifter set for less than a grand, I'm in though! (Could be a long wait....)
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    mamba80 wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    for many, being able to fix a bike is part of the joy of cycling, so if I trash a mechanical RD or even shifters, I can go to any LBS/Halfords on a Saturday night and buy something that will keep me riding ... not so with Di2
    indexing does not need to be tinkered with constantly nor can it be described as a "battle"

    This is complete rubbish for 2 reasons. The first is that combination of sites that offer next day shipping and the fact that catastrophic failures are incredibly rare makes this an incredibly unlikely scenario.

    The second is that this is just as much an issue when it comes to mechanical groupsets (especially if you have Campag). On two occasions I've gone out looking for shimano chain pins (one 10 speed and one 11 speed) and not been able to find a shop with stock. This is in Bristol and included the Giant concept store, Cycle Surgery, and 2 other independent shops.

    Tech for tech's sake is nothing new. Take a look at your car and tell me if you actually need AC or a radio to drive...

    you may be arrogant enough to think its rubbish, fortunately, Campag and shimano invest millions into decent mechanical groupsets, as Rolf said, its a gadget - I ve ridden EPS and Di2, and as I said, if you read, front shifting is better and even that is narrowed by the brilliant 6800/9000 setup - I prefer to fix my own bikes and any comparison to a modern car is ridiculous, cycling is a hobby, a car is for most an essential means of transport, safety/green regs is mainly why the car has evolved to the state it is at now.

    If your local LBSs don't even stock a shimano joining pin (which I find hard to believe), then you could have bought a quick link, which fits its self whilst you have a coffee :lol:

    Did you even read what I wrote? My contentions were that its rubbish because A) you can source parts just as easily and B) bike shops don't necessarily stock all mechanical groupset items. You provided no rebuttal to either point...

    And then you sprout even more indefensible garbage.
    1) Cycling is not just a hobby and a bike is as essentail as a car for many. I work in a city centre 21 miles away from my home with no proper public transport links. This makes a bicycle an essential means of transportation. I know many people who are in the same boat.
    2) My TT bike has Di2. You know who fixes it if something goes wrong? That's right, me! Saying that you need a properly qualified bike mechanic to work on electronic groupsets is absolute tosh and reeks of someone with zero real world experience of the very technology he's decrying. Also, electronic group certification is a separate module and not required for any bike mechanic qualification. In fact, I know more about Di2 than at least 95% of bike mechanics I've met (don't even get me started on how useless they are at Giant and Specialized concept stores).
    3) My analogy to the automobile is sound. If you take a look at current technologies that are allowing for greener cars then you'll find that many evolved and were tested in race cars. In fact, trickle down tech is common in many arenas.

    I eventually found an 11speed quick link (although I was not happy about it as I prefer joining pins), but I was never able to find one for 10 speed Shimano.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Lets be honest - things are going downhill in mechanical groupsets (at least as far as Campag goes - Shimano has been terrible for years). Most of what 'we' do in terms of bike maintenance is fitting rather than mechanics. I can fit any part to my bikes pretty much - the only thing lately I've chickened out on is steerer cutting and that's because I know that although I could do it adequately, a professional could do it more neatly and I like that!

    But what about my worn Campag rear mech - I was going to replace the hanger bushings but the cage pivots are worn too. I don't think those are realistically serviceable though I don't understand why they shouldn't be. So I am limited to fitting a replacement rather than repairing something that should be repairable. At least the Campag shifters are still repairable and there Di2 should be good as it would be inexcusable for a Di2 shifter to not be fully serviceable.

    I'd expect it should be fairly straightforward to replace the motor in a Di2 mech - if it isn't then I'd regard it as junk.

    Ultimately, it is of course important to remember that cycling is fun and lots of people find Di2 and EPS contribute to that so whether or not it is of any practical benefit, the pleasure benefit to some is undeniable! But I am still at a loss to understand why! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    mamba80 wrote:
    I prefer to fix my own bikes and any comparison to a modern car is ridiculous, cycling is a hobby, a car is for most an essential means of transport, safety/green regs is mainly why the car has evolved to the state it is at now.

    eh? my bike does essential journeys, the car is a weekend toy.

    I don't see how Di2 would prevent me from doing all my own work as current. I'm not getting it soon, there are other gadgets like power further up the que!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,260
    Grill wrote:
    Take a look at your car and tell me if you actually need AC or a radio to drive...

    Last time I crossed france the temperature rose to around 35 degrees. I wish I had AC... I could have kept the windows closed and be able to listed to the radio. Given driving is no longer a pleasure, but a chore, a radio is almost an essential tool, to avoid the chore becoming unbearable
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,260
    Rolf F wrote:

    I'd expect it should be fairly straightforward to replace the motor in a Di2 mech - if it isn't then I'd regard it as junk.

    I expect the opposite.
    Apple went to the extent of inventing a whole new screw head to make sure nobody could open the phone and replace the battery. They will of course claim that's to avoid a black market of unsafe batteries that could catch fire and kill you in your sleep, but the reality is that they wnat to be in control of the process. You need a new battery? You contact Apple, they tell you you need to send the phone to the service centre and it will cost 300 pounds... on the other hand, the new model will be 400 and they can even give you a discount to lubricate the transaction... and you will hang up the phone with a stupid smile on your face, as you just spent > 300 pounds to solve a problem that should have costed 20... but hey, you've got a new phone!
    left the forum March 2023
  • Pedro77
    Pedro77 Posts: 59
    This kind of thread it's like Campagnolo vs Shimano ones... Makes me laugh and it is entertaining. Thank you!

    There are early adopters, Luddites, spenders, people that must have the latest gadget and need their peers to agree that the latest iPhone is soooo much better than the old one. Others are just happy with what they got and it works for them. Some like to drive new cars with latest tech, other like to nurture and older car or a classic car, some already have Google Glass and others still haven't heard what an iPad is...

    Bottom line we are all different, the fanatics can say what they want about EPS or mechanical... In end who really cares? I certainly don't give a toss what my neighbour is riding or if he prefers a blue bike to a red one. I know the things I want in my bike and I am happy with my choices.

    Honestly one thing being classed as better than the other sometimes depends on what you value to make that assumption. So electronic group sets have benefits over mechanical, mechanical have advantages too and vice versa...

    I am waiting for the electric power steering, it will be much better!
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,325
    Kingstonian wrote:
    My neighbour is awaiting payout on an insurance claim and will be buying a new bike with it - he was asking whether I'd recommend Di2 and/or disk brakes and rather than verbalise my recommendation I told him to borrow my bike on a few rides this week while I'm on holiday so he can make his own mind up. Will be interesting to see how he got on with them.
    Where in Kingston are you? I'm also waiting for an insurance pay out, I wonder if I'm close enough to be a neighbour. When do you go on holiday? :wink:
    Never tried Di2, but I'm a total convert to discs and have just gone semi-hydraulic by fitting a Parabox to my bike.
    Main reason I won't go electronic in the foreseeable future is the benefit to cost ratio within my price range doesn't seem enough. Obviously this is relatively uninformed as I haven't tried it.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Joeblack
    Joeblack Posts: 829
    This whole argument is completely pointless, as far as I can see electronic shifting is going to be the way forward, arguing against it is like saying down tube shifting is better than lever shifting it's just a natural progression.

    I don't have Di2 but would like it, for me the price of DA Di2 is above what I'd want to spend ATM and ultegra Di2 is too close to the price of mech DA, sounds a bit backwards but I assume that would be the case for many people when ultimately the coin rules 8)

    Also the aesthetics aren't great ATM, when wireless comes to the market and the junction boxes can be hidden and when the price is right I'd be snapping it up in a second.
    One plays football, tennis or golf, one does not play at cycling
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Kingstonian wrote:
    My neighbour is awaiting payout on an insurance claim and will be buying a new bike with it - he was asking whether I'd recommend Di2 and/or disk brakes and rather than verbalise my recommendation I told him to borrow my bike on a few rides this week while I'm on holiday so he can make his own mind up. Will be interesting to see how he got on with them.
    Where in Kingston are you? I'm also waiting for an insurance pay out, I wonder if I'm close enough to be a neighbour. When do you go on holiday? :wink:
    Never tried Di2, but I'm a total convert to discs and have just gone semi-hydraulic by fitting a Parabox to my bike.
    Main reason I won't go electronic in the foreseeable future is the benefit to cost ratio within my price range doesn't seem enough. Obviously this is relatively uninformed as I haven't tried it.


    That's fair enough, mate. If my bike is suitable size-wise for you I'd happily let you give Di2 a go, just for the fun of it.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Joeblack wrote:
    This whole argument is completely pointless, as far as I can see electronic shifting is going to be the way forward, arguing against it is like saying down tube shifting is better than lever shifting it's just a natural progression.

    It is in that DT shifters are lighter, far cheaper and mostly as functional as STI shifters (and more reliable though I suspect that benefit also applies to Di2). Oddly enough, the one convincing argument the proponents of electronic shifting make that is really convincing is the same advantage STIs have over DT shifters. Except that the difference is much greater between DT and STI. This is unexpectedly needing to shift chainrings on a climb.

    This is a bother with DT shifters in that it is very hard to use them when standing out of the pedals - and the time loss in reaching for the shifter actually matters then. This is the one place in countryside riding at least where STI offers a significant advantage over DT. And the place were EPS/Di2 appears to have a slight advantage over STI.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,260
    Joeblack wrote:
    This whole argument is completely pointless, as far as I can see electronic shifting is going to be the way forward, arguing against it is like saying down tube shifting is better than lever shifting it's just a natural progression.

    I don't have Di2 but would like it, for me the price of DA Di2 is above what I'd want to spend ATM and ultegra Di2 is too close to the price of mech DA, sounds a bit backwards but I assume that would be the case for many people when ultimately the coin rules 8)

    Also the aesthetics aren't great ATM, when wireless comes to the market and the junction boxes can be hidden and when the price is right I'd be snapping it up in a second.

    It is pointless to argue, but can I be underwhelmed to see 20 years of technology ending up with a couple of buttons wired to an electric motor hailed as a great advance?
    Look around and see where electronics have gone over the past 20 years, even when applied to mechanical engineering... than look at Di2 and laugh... well, you should laugh... :lol:
    left the forum March 2023
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.

    Back on topic. I've got EPS on two bikes, and it's fantastic. Trouble free, perfect shifting, very easy to adjust if necessary, really can't fault it. Battery last months. It didn't change my life when I fitted it, and yes it's expensive, but I'd never go back to mechanical shifting.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,260
    proto wrote:
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.

    I have seen them and loved the idea, somehow reminded me of something I used to be able to do... I suppose such high tech will come at a hefty price though... :?
    left the forum March 2023
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    proto wrote:
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.

    I have seen them and loved the idea, somehow reminded me of something I used to be able to do... I suppose such high tech will come at a hefty price though... :?

    I have a pair. They are that good.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    Grill wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    proto wrote:
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.

    I have seen them and loved the idea, somehow reminded me of something I used to be able to do... I suppose such high tech will come at a hefty price though... :?

    I have a pair. They are that good.

    Are they? I've been considering some myself.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Yup. Sell you mine so I can by the SLX version. :D
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Grill wrote:
    Yup. Sell you mine so I can by the SLX version. :D

    Carbon fibre laces?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    I use SRAM Red. As a mechanical group, I like it.

    To me all the electric group sets look excellent. I like the idea of them. I'm not sure I'd spend MY money on them, just yet. I want to see what this SRAM wireless is like.

    But, you know what, if I were spending on a group set right now I'd be getting that Campag 80th Anniversary at Planet X.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • andy9964
    andy9964 Posts: 930
    proto wrote:
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.
    Pfffft!!!
    Tying knots is soooooo 20th century
    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... ng-in-2015
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    Andy9964 wrote:
    proto wrote:
    The power of marketing. Fellow turned up to chaingang last night with the latest and greatest Giro road shoes. Had the latest and greatest fastening device known to man. Very high tech. none of those ratchet things or old fashioned velcro. Nope, he had bits of black string threaded through holes up the front of the shoe. Apparently you pull the string and the shoe tightens up around the foot. Then tie a bow and, voila!, the shoe is fastened. Comfortable and secure. He said the bits of string were called laces or something.
    Pfffft!!!
    Tying knots is soooooo 20th century
    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... ng-in-2015

    Wait until you see the new Rapha 'Country' laces. They're 40 quid a pair, but are made of real twine and are gorgeous. You can't put a price on quality.
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    :lol:
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    Grill wrote:
    Yup. Sell you mine so I can by the SLX version. :D

    Email me at work - let's chat!

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