To Cleat or not to Cleat
Comments
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Carbonator wrote:Studies! Is that what you base you rides/kit/life on then?
Not sure why this is upsetting you so much. Studies which support the notion that riding clipped-in delivers no more power than riding on flats. In case you haven't read the thread, there was some disagreement about this earlier.Carbonator wrote:Are these the same studies that say a heavy aluminium bike with Claris is as fast as a carbon one weighing half as much with DA?
No, I don't think those are the same studies. Although such a claim is perfectly feasible in the right circumstances, as I'm sure you realise.0 -
Its only haters that Annoy (rather than upset) me.
Not sure why the OP is even mentioning power when his issue is that he cannot clip in/out like hundreds of thousands of cyclist manage to do every day.
He has asked an annoying question on here (should be in 'Begginers' anyway) and despite all the 'Studies' saying there is no power advantage, and him not liking clipping in...........he is still persevering with clipping in :roll:0 -
I have no problem clipping in, my problem is more mental and from a safety angle, I feel safer using shoes and flats, cleats I am able to use fine, not dropped once in 150k of riding incl traffic, includes an emergency stop, but I am just really weiry almost nervous in certain circumstances, come a clear stretch, happy days on cleats.
So my questioning was really around the gain of cleats, which I think I have a fair idea now.
Now with A530 I feel I have the best of both worlds as a beginner, I will use the cleats as first option, but when needed I can flip over to flats, plus if I end up on a hillstop I know I got the flats to get me going again.
So this post may be in the wrong place, and I may be wasting your time, however it has helped me reach a nice compromise, so I am thankful for the information.0 -
Imposter wrote:rickeverett wrote:Imposter wrote:Clip-in pedals & cleats will not add 'more power to your ride', or make you go any faster. All they do is provide a secure link between your shoes and your pedals.
They provide the capability to pull up as well as push down which helps on climbs and putting down the power. So yeah, they will help in that regard as well as provide a secure link.
I think you are over-estimating the usefulness of 'pulling up' - how much more power do you think that provides? There are links to studies over in the training forum (where this has been discussed many times) which show that riding on flat pedals can produce just as much power as riding while clipped in, which kind of destroys the 'pulling up' argument. The only difference is the lack of a secure foot placement, that's all.
I agree0 -
jpower wrote:I have no problem clipping in, my problem is more mental and from a safety angle, I feel safer using shoes and flats, cleats I am able to use fine, not dropped once in 150k of riding incl traffic, includes an emergency stop, but I am just really weiry almost nervous in certain circumstances, come a clear stretch, happy days on cleats.
So my questioning was really around the gain of cleats, which I think I have a fair idea now.
Now with A530 I feel I have the best of both worlds as a beginner, I will use the cleats as first option, but when needed I can flip over to flats, plus if I end up on a hillstop I know I got the flats to get me going again.
So this post may be in the wrong place, and I may be wasting your time, however it has helped me reach a nice compromise, so I am thankful for the information.
Think you are going down the wrong path with duel sided pedals.
They are for when you want to ride with different shoes, not to give you an option not to clip in with the same shoes.
You are just adding the hassle of only having one side to clip into.
You are obviously not at all fine with using cleats and having the option not to clip in during a ride is not going to help you with that.
Just don't bother or learn to do it properly. Get some more suitable shoes/pedals if that is where the problem lies.0 -
The MTB shoes have the cleat recessed in the sole, thus using the flat pedal is an option as the shoe allows for that.
One day I may go all cleats, but for now this is working for me and to be honest on a ride i am cleated in probably 90-95% of the time, the flat us used just 5-10% for now that works for me.
Don't think its learning thing, as mentioned i am clipping in and out just fine, its more a confidence issue, which the reversible gives me.0 -
jpower wrote:The MTB shoes have the cleat recessed in the sole, thus using the flat pedal is an option as the shoe allows for that.
One day I may go all cleats, but for now this is working for me and to be honest on a ride i am cleated in probably 90-95% of the time, the flat us used just 5-10% for now that works for me.
Don't think its learning thing, as mentioned i am clipping in and out just fine, its more a confidence issue, which the reversible gives me.
Glad it's working for you, when I had similar pedals did notice that since there sided you can end up having to flip the pedal over, and the flat side is okay for popping to the shops but not a secure platform, see MTB ones which will grip your shoe impressively wet/dry/smooth/rough etc.
Road flats being smaller and with shallower studs are not great hence most using clipless. And MTB flats would a look a tad odd and b risk Pedal strike due to their size.0 -
jpower wrote:The MTB shoes have the cleat recessed in the sole, thus using the flat pedal is an option as the shoe allows for that.
One day I may go all cleats, but for now this is working for me and to be honest on a ride i am cleated in probably 90-95% of the time, the flat us used just 5-10% for now that works for me.
Don't think its learning thing, as mentioned i am clipping in and out just fine, its more a confidence issue, which the reversible gives me.
Trying to gain confidence in doing something by avoiding doing it is a bit odd IMO, but as has been said, if it works for you then great.
You should be able to detach from MTB pedals super easy, so not sure whats happening on the 5-10% of times you feel you need to be on flat pedals.
Its more about remembering to turn your foot than any actual effort in detaching.
My eggbeaters (that I use for commuting on a CX bike) are like hot knife thru butter easy to turn out of.
The A530's are just not designed to be used with hard soled MTB shoes on the flat side, and combined with you changing between being clipped in sometimes but not others, seems a recipe for a slip to me.
The A530's are designed to be used with different shoes from the ones you use on the clip in side.
Again though, if using them in a way that they were not designed for works for you, then great.
If you have soft soled lace up trainer type shoes then thats probably part of the reason you are unhappy about being clipped in all the time in the first place.0 -
Have been using these for a long time: http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... -12-46211/
I hear what your saying about a530 use, this eve I followed my son who wanted to go for a jog, I hate jogging, so followed on bike and used the above trainers.
I get my usage is weird but its building the confidence I need, the times I unclip and use flat is really in traffic, low speed, start stop type scenario.0 -
Carbonator looks like you had it nailed long back. Guess I should have listened.
Using the new cleats 2nd time, went for a longish ride this morning, feeling good, clipped in prob 99% of the time, at around 30k had a little incident but never ended up on the floor, single track road, car behind then one forward came up very fast, manged to get out ungracefully without falling. Near end of the ride 62k in, had a dude run out from his gate without looking, split second reaction time, going at pace, no time to unclip for me, ended up on the floor but avoided the pedestrain, knee, ankle, palm of wrist gashed up, little shaken as it was on the road. This was always my main issue, its the time when you have to instictively react at pace.
Anyway I think I feel safer with flats, never ended up on the floor and never had any issue of pedal slipping, so I think I am going to revert to what feels safer for me and loss a little efficiency. Tried its not for me.0 -
It's your bike, and you should ride it in a way you enjoy and feel safe, and if that means flat pedals, then so be it.
However, I'd be cautious of the " Tried it - it's not for me" approach this early. Almost everyone stalls a car a lot during their first few driving lessons - I know I did. Now dipping the clutch is completely natural, and I do it without thinking. It's the same with cleats. It'll come with practice. For me, they do make riding the bike more enjoyable and safer.
I would suggest:
a) persevere for a few more rides - it will get easier
b) approaching junctions and other hazards, consider unclipping one foot earlier than you need to, so that you have the knowledge that you can very quickly put a foot down if necessary
c) slow down a bit until you're more confident with cleats, then you might avoid panic situations when the next pedestrian leaps out in front of you
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ElectronShepherd wrote:It's your bike, and you should ride it in a way you enjoy and feel safe, and if that means flat pedals, then so be it.
However, I'd be cautious of the " Tried it - it's not for me" approach this early. Almost everyone stalls a car a lot during their first few driving lessons - I know I did. Now dipping the clutch is completely natural, and I do it without thinking. It's the same with cleats. It'll come with practice. For me, they do make riding the bike more enjoyable and safer.
I would suggest:
a) persevere for a few more rides - it will get easier
b) approaching junctions and other hazards, consider unclipping one foot earlier than you need to, so that you have the knowledge that you can very quickly put a foot down if necessary
c) slow down a bit until you're more confident with cleats, then you might avoid panic situations when the next pedestrian leaps out in front of you
Thanks I do agree with what your saying, I think I'm just an impatient kind of guy and bruises right now are a bit of a in your face reminder, not to mention the missus saying a few words.0 -
Glad your ok ;-)
Just do whatever you are happy with but personally I would bin the Shimanos (the screw is fully loosened isn't it?) and get some Candy 1's.
I dont understand what you mean by 'time to unclip'. You just twist your foot and its off.
Eggbeaters/Candy 1's are at least a bit easier to unclip from. They have one spring (with no silly tensioning screw) so its exactly the same tension on both sides (Candy one) or all four sides (bare Eggbeaters), unlike most Shimano's (ok, not yours) which have a separate one for each side.
The other thing is that the pedal releases from front and back of the cleat at the same time, unlike from rear only like the Shimano system. This means that its more of a twist than a heel out movement.
In theory, twisting open two equal spring loaded 'clamps' should be easier than pushing against one with perhaps double the grip (assuming the springs are the same strength).
In reality my wife hated M520's but loves her Candy 1's0 -
Yeah fully loosened, 'time to unclip' meant during emergency, when you know your coming to a stop you brain already registered need to unclip, time part is more about when something happens suddenly.
Think just going to find me some flats, see good reviews for Superstar Nano.0
