Lance Armstrong Lie

steveadi
steveadi Posts: 26
edited July 2014 in Road general
Tomorrow 9pm channel 4, cant see it posted elsewhere I apologise if it has been posted :oops:
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Comments

  • dilatory
    dilatory Posts: 565
    There's (obviously) a very long thread on it (the docu) in the Pro Race section I think, but no data about it being on TV, have already seen it but will probably watch it live just 'cause, so thanks!
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    Not sure if its the same as the one on BBC4 now about him but you don't really learn anything new about him......the man is a lying piece of shite and is a disgrace to anyone who has survived or is suffering from cancer, utter twunt :evil:
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • Toe knee
    Toe knee Posts: 525
    ^^^^^^^^ this
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    arran77 wrote:
    Not sure if its the same as the one on BBC4 now about him but you don't really learn anything new about him......the man is a lying piece of shite and is a disgrace to anyone who has survived or is suffering from cancer, utter twunt :evil:

    C;mon Arran, don't sit on the fence. Tell us what you really think.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    arran77 wrote:
    Not sure if its the same as the one on BBC4 now about him but you don't really learn anything new about him......the man is a lying piece of shite and is a disgrace to anyone who has survived or is suffering from cancer, utter twunt :evil:

    C;mon Arran, don't sit on the fence. Tell us what you really think.

    It's true. I won't mince my words on this subject.
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • rickeverett
    rickeverett Posts: 988
    What's sad.... Watching the BBC Four doc right now.... is the doubts you get that the guys I watched today may be on PEDS.

    I know PEDS are more common in lower classes due to lack of testing, but there's always something new and untestable.

    Is it gone? Or still a problem? Who knows?
  • dilatory
    dilatory Posts: 565
    There's always something in all professional sports. USADA/WADA list is long but not comprehensive. The issue with Armstrong is not the cheating but the denial and using all his money to destroy his friends / colleagues to hide the lie.
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • rickeverett
    rickeverett Posts: 988
    arran77 wrote:
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.


    What about the guys out there now keeping secrets. I dunno if the top level is clean. That's just as bad.
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    rickeverett wrote:
    arran77 wrote:
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.


    What about the guys out there now keeping secrets. I dunno if the top level is clean. That's just as bad.

    On a personal level for me now, the shite he spouted about beating cancer and going on to do all he did and how this would give other cancer sufferers hope is the biggest and most disgusting part of this all, utter w@nker :evil:
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    rickeverett wrote:

    Is it gone? Or still a problem? Who knows?

    I know. It's not gone. It's still a problem. It's simple. There are people out there who will do pretty much anything to win and pretty much anything for money.
  • Colinthecop
    Colinthecop Posts: 996
    arran77 wrote:
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.


    Although his charity/foundation raised a lot of awareness and money, which can only be a good thing...
  • Colinthecop
    Colinthecop Posts: 996
    Mind you, so did Jimmy Saville.

    So on re-reading my post, ignore it, it's b0ll0cks

    :oops:
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    Colinthecop wrote:
    arran77 wrote:
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.


    Although his charity/foundation raised a lot of awareness and money, which can only be a good thing...

    Exactly what the wife said.
    "He may have lied and he may of bullied but he made hundreds of millions for charity, what did the other liars and cheats do for charity?"
  • speshsteve
    speshsteve Posts: 352
    Bozman wrote:
    Colinthecop wrote:
    arran77 wrote:
    The utter arrogance of the man and the disrespect that he showed for those close to him when things began to go wrong is quite sickening, he really did believe that he was above absolutely everybody.


    Although his charity/foundation raised a lot of awareness and money, which can only be a good thing...

    Exactly what the wife said.
    "He may have lied and he may of bullied but he made hundreds of millions for charity, what did the other liars and cheats do for charity?"

    I don't get live strong.....zero money towards cancer research and cure, most of the money goes on awareness programs whatever they are?
    My Marmotte 2012 Blog:
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  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    I wasn't a fan or believer and enjoyed the downfall but I actually began to enjoy his sheer utter determination. I wouldn't want him as a mate but as story it's excellent. Don't go into a gun fight with a knife.

    I don't want to have a 'charity off' but other perfectly good cancer charities don't do research but provide support.
  • speshsteve
    speshsteve Posts: 352
    iPete wrote:
    I wasn't a fan or believer and enjoyed the downfall but I actually began to enjoy his sheer utter determination. I wouldn't want him as a mate but as story it's excellent. Don't go into a gun fight with a knife.

    I don't want to have a 'charity off' but other perfectly good cancer charities don't do research but provide support.

    I wouldn't even put in the same ball park as the likes of charities like macmillan CS, their great work is plain to see.........I just don't see that with LS, their accounts don't make pretty reading. But like you said I don't really care!

    Agreed on the story...its a cracker :)
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  • WeeJohn
    WeeJohn Posts: 5
    For me, after watching the film last night, the real villain in all of this is Bruyneel. He just came across as completely evil
  • seanoconn
    seanoconn Posts: 11,684
    How have Armstrong, Bruyneel and the other players escaped prison for such a massive fraud and the damage they caused to innocent people who stood in their way?
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    seanoconn wrote:
    How have Armstrong, Bruyneel and the other players escaped prison for such a massive fraud and the damage they caused to innocent people who stood in their way?

    Lack of legislation on the matter?

    The other question you have to ask yourself is: who has been damaged? Not the sponsors, who got millions in sales... not the opponents, who were also on EPO... not the crowds... unless you want to sue Armstrong for emotional damage... not even the Tour de France, which is more popular than ever, despite Armstrong... if Armstrong is the culprit, then who is the victim?
    left the forum March 2023
  • seanoconn
    seanoconn Posts: 11,684
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    seanoconn wrote:
    How have Armstrong, Bruyneel and the other players escaped prison for such a massive fraud and the damage they caused to innocent people who stood in their way?

    Lack of legislation on the matter?

    The other question you have to ask yourself is: who has been damaged? Not the sponsors, who got millions in sales... not the opponents, who were also on EPO... not the crowds... unless you want to sue Armstrong for emotional damage... not even the Tour de France, which is more popular than ever, despite Armstrong... if Armstrong is the culprit, then who is the victim?
    Betsy whatsherface, wife of Frankie, seemed an innocent party, Armstrong put her through hell. Greg Lemond and the US Postal team masseuse to name but a few.
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • Joeblack
    Joeblack Posts: 829
    The way I see it they were all it, yeah he's profited but so have a lot of others, people got hurt along the way, that's professional sport, in fact that's life!

    I think most people feel aggrieved because they believed him and felt duped, but he's a bully I hear you cry!! Life is full of a***holes and bullies get over it.
    One plays football, tennis or golf, one does not play at cycling
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    seanoconn wrote:
    Greg Lemond and the US Postal team masseuse to name but a few.

    Greg Lemond should be the last to open his mouth on the matter... I like the guy and I did like the cyclist, but how do you think he won his three Tour de France? His main rival (RIP) admitted doping...
    left the forum March 2023
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I always thought Lemond was clean ? Wasnt he outspoken about Armstrong ?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    cougie wrote:
    I always thought Lemond was clean ? Wasnt he outspoken about Armstrong ?

    Nobody was clean. At no stage in the Tour de France history there was a clean winner... it is debateable how clean they are in the modern days (from Cadel's victory onwards).
    Doping has been symbiotic with the sport since the very start... the real problem began with blood doping, which was a completely different matter, at least morally (needle Vs pill debate) and it started sometime in the 1980s with transfusions and then EPO later.
    I don't know whether Lemond was ever blood doping, but his rival admitted to and he certainly wasn't racing clean
    left the forum March 2023
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    My non cycling mates thought that he was being made a scapegoat, Armstrong has hardly tarnished a sport where drugs have been the norm throughout its history, sales of bikes are through the roof and the sport has never been so popular.
    He hurt a few people and that should be sorted out but the sport has made millions from him and continues to thrive.
  • Old_Timer
    Old_Timer Posts: 262
    LA has cast a long shadow on all of racing and its participants, even if they are completely clean. He hasn't sincerely apologized for anything. That prime time reality show was a sham in my book, he wanted to look contrite but when you get things down to the root of the problems, he weaseled on everything and rationalized his actions. When he stops displaying the maillot jaune (sp) in his home and repeatedly saying he knows in his heart that he won those races, it will be a start towards honesty. That, I do not see happening, his attempts at competing in mtb and tri events reinforce his contentions, to me.

    Even the old time pros haven't tried to act as if they were totally clean in the past. Armstrong tried to play him self up as the ultimate in professional cycling, he has failed, completely.

    His using cancer as a bully pulpit for his actions, and puffing him self up, is sickening. Everything I've read about the Livestrong Foundation doesn't add up, either. Sorry for the rant, I never cared for him and doubt I'll ever feel differently. Arran and some of the others here have said things much better than I can, I get too frustrated about this guy. I believe you call his type a w*nker, that is fitting. Take most of the replies here, and add up how so many feel about him. I want to find a way to watch the program this thread started on.
    Lets just got for a ride, the heck with all this stuff...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    Old_Timer wrote:
    LA has cast a long shadow on all of racing and its participants, even if they are completely clean.

    You are an idealist and you don't know the history of cycling. But it's not too late... :wink: this is the updated list of proved doping cases in cycling through history... then of course there is a huge number of cyclists who never tested positive... just like LA. Some never tested positive and were never persecuted... some of these won the Tour de france multiple times.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... in_cycling
    left the forum March 2023
  • Old_Timer
    Old_Timer Posts: 262
    Yes, Ugo, I know the cases you referred me to, I agree with you, and I am probably an idealist, as you said. Its just Armstrong's attitude and his actions now that make me angry. Cycling has a long and pretty well documented history of doping, PEDS, alcohol and other things like this, I'd never deny it, LA just infuriates me too easily.

    I wouldn't put any of the past "heroes" on a pedestal, maybe my statement you quoted was too much, it was in my rant phase, which is usually a mistaken way to post. Someone like yourself will always point out my error, anyway, so others see how much I need to improve myself (a whole lot. :D ) I will admit errors and not try and cover them over, though. :o

    Thanks for your references on the history, they were educational for me, much appreciated.And, I am pretty knowledgeable about cycle racing history, not as much as you by any means, but I'm not ignorant, either :roll: . As you said, its not too late, hopefully :wink:
    Lets just got for a ride, the heck with all this stuff...
  • seanoconn
    seanoconn Posts: 11,684
    Old_Timer wrote:
    Yes, Ugo, I know the cases you referred me to, I agree with you, and I am probably an idealist, as you said. Its just Armstrong's attitude and his actions now that make me angry about his actions. Cycling has a long and pretty well documented history of doping, PEDS, alcohol and other things like this, I'd never deny it, LA just infuriates me too easily.

    I wouldn't put any of the past "heroes" on a pedestal, maybe my statement you quoted was too much, it was in my rant phase, which is usually a mistaken way to post. Someone like yourself will always point out my error, anyway, so others see how much I need to improve myself. I will admit errors and not try and cover them over, though. thanks for your references on the history, they were educational for me, much appreciated.
    Old timer, as a US citizen, how is Arnstrong viewed by the American public now?
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי

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