Petrified of fast descents...
Mikey23
Posts: 5,306
As it says in the title... Did the dartmoor classic today, was grinding it out in the heat and the hills but came to a long fast three mile descent which absolutely freaked me out. In the end i had to climb off and was in such a state of panic that i had to regroup before i abandoned and could make my way home by an easier, flatter route.
Does anyone else experience this and if so what did you do to deal with it? It seems that most people are quite happy to whizz down this type of terrain at 40 mph while barely touching the brakes and seem to get a terrific buzz out of this. I am ok on shallower hills and dont mind going fastish but i think this block on steep, narrow country lanes is holding back other improvements. Any thoughts or suggestions, even MTFU will be appreciated...
Does anyone else experience this and if so what did you do to deal with it? It seems that most people are quite happy to whizz down this type of terrain at 40 mph while barely touching the brakes and seem to get a terrific buzz out of this. I am ok on shallower hills and dont mind going fastish but i think this block on steep, narrow country lanes is holding back other improvements. Any thoughts or suggestions, even MTFU will be appreciated...
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I find it scary too, I lose a lot of time and speed on the descents. Descending like an old woman. I'm not over it by any means but I feel a little better reading up on cornering and defending and getting some tipsCanyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group0 -
Mikey23 wrote:Does anyone else experience this and if so what did you do to deal with it? It seems that most people are quite happy to whizz down this type of terrain at 40 mph while barely touching the brakes and seem to get a terrific buzz out of this.
I do,but that does not stop me to ask myself " whattahell did I just do ? I could have killed myself" once I've reached the bottom. There is not much you can do about it,its either you have it or you don't have it. The more I'm squeezing my 2 years old bike's limits tho the more I'm realizing is not even a bike built with that kind or riding in mind,so I do still speed a lot but I keep my fingers on the brakes now. FYI bike is a dreadful Specialized Roubaix. Have it reach 40/45 mph and consider front stability end lost for good. On sharp fast turns things get even more funny...
I've even have a friend of mine, a racer both on bike and supermotard motorbike telling me " yeah it's cool to reach 50 mph on a bike but don't forget you're actually naked,your not wearing any motorbike like protections"
My suggestion for when your start to freak out ? Tell yourself " who cares..."..and keep going... You have to perfectly know your bike and your brakes tho,that is quite important...Specialized Tarmac Sworks
Canyon Spectral 8.90 -
I'm pretty much the same. I think it's just a case of pushing your boundaries slowly each time you go out. I'd love to race crits next year and know that my cornering confidence is dreadful (amongst other things!) so every time I go out I get into the drops and try and corner faster and harder each time.
Riding with better riders helps too, seeing them cornering hard kinda makes you think "Oh, I can go a bit faster through here" and then the next time you feel a bit more confident doing it. That said out on a group ride not long ago it went through a fast fast descent and since they all ride it regularly they just let rip. In the middle of the group I didn't know how to avoid it so just followed suit. Was shtting myself all the way but it certainly pushed my limits, 45mph with some corners when I didn't know the road haha.0 -
It is the skinny tyres I think.
I have no problem riding a motorcycle over 90 (er, I mean UNDER 70 miles an hour, officer) even in bad conditions but get me on a bicycle with skinny tyres and I am constantly braking down hill.0 -
To the OP - descents are meant to be fun so go at the speed that produces that feeling, don't worry what others are doing. Having said that there are descents that will give any rider the jitters (eastern side of Hardknott pass and the descent down Park Rash into Kettlewell are two that have got me)0
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I have had to slow down a few times, as half way down I have a "what if the fork collapses" thought0
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@devastazione... Mines a roubaix too. Thought that would be pretty stable
@j3w ... It is crazy and irrational because the bike isnt going to break... But that is my thought too. And not being able to see potholes because of tree cover, and not being able to react if there is a pothole, and what about all the gravel and debris, and what if an animal should run into my path or what if there is a car and i cant stop, or a horse ... Or an alien landing craft
@simona ... Thats probably the answer and to do lumpy courses with descents rather than avoiding them. Other riders dont help as like today there were dozens silently overtaking at speed but they obviously dont have the probs i have. Costs me a more in brakepads mind!0 -
Its when road bikes wipe out it is very hard to get them back without crashing. Mountain bikes with disc brakes and bigger tyres are easier to bring back under control.0
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If I ever got The Fear whilst descending, I'd give up.
For every second I lose going uphill, I make it back tenfold going down the other side!0 -
Iamnot Wiggins wrote:If I ever got The Fear whilst descending, I'd give up.
For every second I lose going uphill, I make it back tenfold going down the other side!
Just a question, but how many crashes have you had descending at speed?I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
Practice. If it's not there naturally, the confidence will only come with experience.
Ease yourself into it. No need to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. Just enjoy it and try to relax. The more you do it, the better you will get. The relaxing bit is very important - if you're always tense and on the brakes, it will badly hamper your handling skills, which in turn will further damage your confidence. You'll tense up further...etc, etc, etc.
Learn how to use your brakes efficiently and confidently. Front wheel gets much more grip under braking, so you will hit this harder than the back - a split of something like 70/30. Apply them gradually - though you can be firm - as the weight hits the front, it will grip more. And do it before you hit any corners, not while you're in them! And remember to stay relaxed.
If you can't see the road surface properly, there's absolutely no shame in easing off. In fact it's entirely sensible. Plenty of people have far less concern over damaging themselves, and that's up to them. Others may ride those roads every day and know exactly what's coming up. If you can't assess the conditions properly, best playing it safe.
This is a good time of year. The roads are mostly dry and you can generally hit the brakes hard. So good time to get out in the hills and practice. When it gets wet, and the leaves start falling, and the mud starts spreading, then it's time to practice again and step up the game.
Some hills are just utterly frightening mind. I know of at least one that is so steep and so long, if you were to reach terminal velocity on it, even though it is dead straight, it would become difficult to stop, and probably safer just to ride it out. Funnily enough, I'm yet to test it out. Always dabbing the brakes on the way down. On hills like that, I find it better to slow right down and let yourself ride at a pace that is comfortable, where you can let the brakes off, gather a bit of speed again, dab them, bring it back under control...rather than constantly riding on your threshold of what you feel is safe, with your nerves fraying, your body becoming more tense, then your bike handling skills diminishing, and falling back into that vicious circle.0 -
I remember getting this when climbing up to Formentor outside Puerto Pollenca, Mallorca. I found the climb tougher than anything I'd done in the UK up to that point, but the thought of the "reward" bombing down the descent afterwards was what got me to the top (it was blooming hot as well!). Anyway, going down meant riding on the side of the road with a sheer drop on the side, faster than I'd ever gone, on a hired bike I wasn't very familiar with. Can't say I really enjoyed it and 'survival mode' kicked in a little, using the brakes more than I should have. I'm actually not great with heights so maybe that had something to do with it?
Practice and exposure is probably key to getting over it...Titus Silk Road Ti rigid 29er - Scott Solace 10 disc - Kinesis Crosslight Pro6 disc - Scott CR1 SL - Pinnacle Arkose X 650b - Pinnacle Arkose singlespeed - Specialized Singlecross...& an Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray 4 string...0 -
good advice ... thanks
@iamnotwiggins... tell me how? have you always had this or was it something that you have trained in over the years? guys i ride with do this. im with them flat and uphill but on the downs they disappear into the distance and have to patiently wait for me at the next layby!0 -
I come from an MTB back ground and think nothing of flying down rocky,steep and technical descents.That's with 2.5" knobblies hydraulic brakes and 730mm wide bars though
Narrow bars and skinny tyres take some getting used to but for me it's still a DH.I still ride on the hoods no matter how steep the descent is,it just takes a different mindset to get used to less braking power 8)
I get a buzz from a fast descent whether it's on or off road0 -
Mate, I was utterly fearless at descending when I was in my teens - then I had a massive crash on a steep downhill section in a race in France which stopped me signing a professional contract. I smashed my foot to pieces, took more skin off than I care to remember and knocked myself out, waking up a couple of hours after the crash in hospital not able to remember what I'd been up to that day.
I got back into cycling again last year (20+ years after the crash) and still love a downhill, but am a bit more careful now.
Part of it is technique and knowing where to put your bike on the road. It amazes me how many people I see having no clue about what line to take down a road - that's what causes most crashes. But at the end of the day, go at the pace you are comfortable with and don't worry what anyone else thinks.0 -
Go slower. If you're not racing then there is no need to take risks (you're own level of risk aversion will tell you what is too fast, its obviously different for everyone). My own level is about 45 on straight roads, anything with a corner and I'm on the brakes.... I can't afford to be off work because of an avoidable accident. Enjoy you're riding at you're own pace I say.0
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I have never had a fear of fast descending. Love hitting 60kph+ , but have had speed wobble and that can seriously scare the sh!t out of you cos you never know if braking is going to make it worse.0
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Mikey23 wrote:good advice ... thanks
@iamnotwiggins... tell me how? have you always had this or was it something that you have trained in over the years? guys i ride with do this. im with them flat and uphill but on the downs they disappear into the distance and have to patiently wait for me at the next layby!
I know the question wasn't for me, but...
Before getting into cycling I used to race go karts. I learnt a lot about how to go fast round corners and some of that has helped with cycling - not all as the lines are a little different, but I'm more aware of how to go through a corner at speed than some, so I usually gain lots of time on other riders in those situations.0 -
That said out on a group ride not long ago it went through a fast fast descent and since they all ride it regularly they just let rip. In the middle of the group I didn't know how to avoid it so just followed suit. Was shtting myself all the way but it certainly pushed my limits, 45mph with some corners when I didn't know the road haha.
What hill was that?
Im abit rubbish on descents judging by my strava rankings compared to uphills also, but I like zooming down Pen y pass etc.0 -
Moonbiker wrote:That said out on a group ride not long ago it went through a fast fast descent and since they all ride it regularly they just let rip. In the middle of the group I didn't know how to avoid it so just followed suit. Was shtting myself all the way but it certainly pushed my limits, 45mph with some corners when I didn't know the road haha.
What hill was that?
Im abit rubbish on descents judging by my strava rankings compared to uphills also, but I like zooming down Pen y pass etc.
Wasn't anything special! Some hill in Llangaffo haha. Only scary cause I was in a group who ride it fast. I came down the other side of Pen y Pass solo so wasn't bad. Within 350 out of 1900 on the climb and I think like 1800 out of 1900 on the descent haha. I can't stomach fast descending at all...0 -
As others have said Mikey, don't worry about how fast others are going - just go at a speed that you are comfortable with and never try to keep up with unknown riders. They may be experts or complete nutcases!
On your rides with your faster descending mates, try to follow their lines through the corners - ask them to maybe slow down a little so you can follow safely. Always do your braking before the corners and stay on the drops as this gives you more control and will lower your centre of gravity.
Try to use your body weight to get you through faster shallow corners rather than steering round them. If it's safe to do so and you have full visibility, use all the width of the road so you can hit the apex of a corner. Counter steering by pressing down on one side of the bars is something that the best descenders use to good effect - motorcyclists also do this.
On very long fast descents, such as in the Alps, observe the vanishing point in the road ahead as you approach any deviations; if it's getting closer to you, then you need to lose some speed and if it's getting further away then you can let it run.
Mostly though, try to relax and practice, practice, practice!0 -
Another MTB rider here but not so much these days. This definitely gave me confidence on downhill sections and despite being an 'older' rider(51) I find my Strava downhill times much more impressive than the uphills! Having said that I do have those 'what if' moments and save the full speed efforts for a couple of hills that I know very well, especially after having a rapid front tyre deflation coming down Cheddar Gorge a couple of weeks ago. That was very very scary and I still don't quite know how I didn't come a cropper, good old fashioned tank-slapper and praying whilst strying to stop on my rims going across the wrong side of the road on a sharp left hander!
Just as an add on, I usually adopt mtb technique if I stop pedalling on really fast descents, both feet level and weight off the back of the saddle, feels much more balanced to me.Vaaru Titanium Sram Red eTap
Moda Chord with drop bars and Rival shifters - winter/do it all bike
Orbea Rise0 -
Oh I know that hill tarmac surface is rough on it.0
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Try doing a 50 MPH decent in a road race of 80 riders all tightly packed :shock:0
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why don't you go up to Warren ho inn and practice on those bomb hole style descents/ascents, direction M/hapstead? and just gradually speed up? as your confidence increases? also, buy a book called flick of the wrist by Keith code, its for motorcyclists but it might give you some tips?
imho a lot of descending is down to your personality, your belief in your own skills (real or imagined!) and your attitude to risk/injury, these can be very difficult to overcome, esp if you are older.
Going slow down a tree covered road with the sun shinning through the leaves is very wise, pot holes and stones that have been knocked out the hedge cant be seen.0 -
I don't mind going fast, if it's open then I'm well prepared to go up to 50mph if I can, it's when it's twisty and very steep that I have problems. Grabbing full on the brakes in order to not like the bike build up too much speed because I fear if I do I won't be able to stop it again, although possibly because I have no confidence in my brakes!
Yesterday I came to here [how can I post a gooogle streetview now?] (a lot steeper that it looks there, 25% according to the signs), and my brakes just weren't slowing me enough for my liking to I had to run it into the verge at the top and then get off and walk around the harpin, even then I was struggling to walk on the road, it's that sort of descent I have issues with.0 -
Im pleased its not just me. My missus reminded me that i am 63 and did have broken bits last year after an off
The advice is brilliant thanks guys... More lumpy stuff for me and dont try and wing something as challenging as the dartmoor classic with having done relevant and appropriate training...0 -
You have to treat each one individually, I think. I have touched 45-50mph in Mallorca and felt perfectly safe due to the beautifully smooth surface. I have felt insecure at 20mph on some descents in the UK due to rough surface, gravel etc. Descending Wrynose Pass a coupe of weeks ago I had a few hairy moments just because of the ridiculous gradient. I think everyone has a "what if...." mechanism that throws the occasional doubt into the mix : what if my tyre bursts, what if the lugs break, what if my stem isn't tightened correctly (my personal favourite :shock:). A healthy awareness of self preservation is a good thing in my book.Bianchi ImpulsoBMC Teammachine SLR02 01Trek Domane AL3“When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. “ ~H.G. Wells Edit - "Unless it's a BMX"0
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It's probably a useful survival instinct to have. I absolutely love descending at speed, but there have been plenty of occasions when I've got to the bottom and thought, wtf am I doing. For me it's like a fairground ride or a computer game. In the moment it's rather abstract. I guess my first downhill off will bring me down to earth, literally.
I'm no expert, but two skills I've found useful: being able to bunny-hop - means you no longer fear last second pothole spots - and the old forcing your weight into the outside pedal in bends thing.
There are also coaching sessions you can do. Cadence here in Crystal Palace regularly run climbing and descending days with their resident pro.0