So sportives aren't races?

DavidJB
DavidJB Posts: 2,019
edited July 2014 in Road general
This is ridiculous.

http://www.wearemortal.net/#!MORTAL-Tea ... 530E5117D9

It's got it all, high pace, strava segments and chases.
«134567

Comments

  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Hmm, it does seem rather silly to talk about 'winning' the event. Was it a mass start, as most sportives I've gone to they start you off in small groups so even if you're the first home you could still be 'beaten' by someone starting an hour behind you.

    The Durham Big Ride does have a mass start, and I was the first to finish last year, I guess that means I 'won'? What does it mean? Nothing.
  • vimfuego
    vimfuego Posts: 1,783
    My thoughts exactly. How do you "win" a sportive?. Numpties.
    CS7
    Surrey Hills
    What's a Zwift?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    It's a sportive on open roads ...

    I can understand going for a "fast time" and even being the fastest finisher - but you can't win something that isn't a race...

    Etap Loch Ness was on closed roads and they advertised that there would be placings for the fastest around the course and KOM too (not that I stood a chance in either) ...

    Oh - I get it ... Mortal are a limited company - they're out to make money (and who isn't) but I think they've got the message wrong on this one.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Sportive on open roads = race against yourself
    Sportive on closed roads = race

    IMO
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Carbonator wrote:
    Sportive on open roads = race against yourself
    Sportive on closed roads = race

    IMO

    That doesn't make sense. A race on open roads is still a race. The status of the road itself is irrelevant and does not change the nature of the event. A sportive is still a sportive.
  • Skinner2k3
    Skinner2k3 Posts: 310
    Where would a TT sit on the Sportive to Race scale?

    Not a mass start, but pretty sure someone still won the TTs I have done.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Skinner2k3 wrote:
    Where would a TT sit on the Sportive to Race scale?

    Not a mass start, but pretty sure someone still won the TTs I have done.

    A TT is a time trial - the clues are there.

    A closed road Sportive isn't a race because not everyone is racing. But there's not much to stop you racing other people but you won't have 'beaten them' unless they were actually racing you.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Skinner2k3 wrote:
    Where would a TT sit on the Sportive to Race scale?

    Not a mass start, but pretty sure someone still won the TTs I have done.

    A TT would be listed under 'time trial' - probably on the chart next to 'road race'. TTs and road races are, quite obviously, competitive events and run under competition rules. Sportives are described by BC as 'challenge rides' - where the only objective is to complete the distance.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    I've only ever done one and everybody had a transponder so a couple of days later you could look how quick you were over your distance, no winner just the quickest over a set distance.
    I just went at it wanting to achieve a quick time for me over the 72 miles that I rode, I did ok and got a pat on the back.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Imposter wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Sportive on open roads = race against yourself
    Sportive on closed roads = race

    IMO

    That doesn't make sense. A race on open roads is still a race. The status of the road itself is irrelevant and does not change the nature of the event. A sportive is still a sportive.

    I was not commenting on the event, just if sportives were races.
    I also did not say it was a race if on open roads.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Carbonator wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Sportive on open roads = race against yourself
    Sportive on closed roads = race

    IMO

    That doesn't make sense. A race on open roads is still a race. The status of the road itself is irrelevant and does not change the nature of the event. A sportive is still a sportive.

    I was not commenting on the event, just if sportives were races.
    I also did not say it was a race if on open roads.

    Don't worry - it's just another case of someone either reading what they want to read rather than what's written or being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative ... eitherway their post can be ignored :)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Rolf F wrote:

    A closed road Sportive isn't a race because not everyone is racing. But there's not much to stop you racing other people but you won't have 'beaten them' unless they were actually racing you.

    If some of the people are racing you (which they certainly will be) then its a race (as long as you are racing them).

    If you are quicker than people then you beat them, its there own fault for not racing if they do not like that lol.
    I stopped saying "I was not racing you" when I was about 10.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Slowbike wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Sportive on open roads = race against yourself
    Sportive on closed roads = race

    IMO

    That doesn't make sense. A race on open roads is still a race. The status of the road itself is irrelevant and does not change the nature of the event. A sportive is still a sportive.

    I was not commenting on the event, just if sportives were races.
    I also did not say it was a race if on open roads.

    Don't worry - it's just another case of someone either reading what they want to read rather than what's written or being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative ... eitherway their post can be ignored :)

    Hold on - the guy said sportive on closed roads = race - did he not? That is patently not correct. Sportives are still sportives, irrespective of whether the road is closed or not. Or do you disagree?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Carbonator wrote:
    If some of the people are racing you (which they certainly will be) then its a race (as long as you are racing them).

    If you are quicker than people then you beat them, its there own fault for not racing if they do not like that lol.
    I stopped saying "I was not racing you" when I was about 10.

    This is either a wind-up, or you don't understand the difference in legal status between competitive events and sportives. I'm going to assume it's a wind-up.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    I was not talking about legal status. I was talking about the attitude of people taking part.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Imposter wrote:
    Hold on - the guy said sportive on closed roads = race - did he not? That is patently not correct. Sportives are still sportives, irrespective of whether the road is closed or not. Or do you disagree?

    Yup, said that, but your earlier comment was re open roads.

    A sportive is a sportive but it is very different when on closed rather than open roads IMO
    Depends on how closed the roads are too I guess.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    A sportive is a sportive and not a race, irrespective whether the road is closed or not. The only difference I think with closed roads is that you don't have to obey all the rules of the highway code e.g. you can jump red lights.

    A sportive might be a race against yourself i.e. to see if you can get a certain time, but I take issue with the way this article makes out some guy "won" the event. He may have got the fastest time, but that doesn't make him a "winner" since its not a race...
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Carbonator wrote:
    A sportive is a sportive but it is very different when on closed rather than open roads IMO
    Depends on how closed the roads are too I guess.

    This seems to be confusing you slightly. A sportive is a sportive regardless of the status of the road. Even if people choose to ride differently on a closed road, they are still riding a sportive.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    To confuse matters slightly the likes of the Etape Pennines which runs on closed roads refers to itself as a 'race', even though by most definitions it's a closed road sportive.
  • thiscocks
    thiscocks Posts: 549
    The guy hasn't even shaved his legs so it can't have been a race :D
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    To confuse matters slightly the likes of the Etape Pennines which runs on closed roads refers to itself as a 'race', even though by most definitions it's a closed road sportive.

    Same group that run Etap Loch Ness ...

    It's a race in the way that it's got some competitive cyclists in it and being on closed roads you don't lose time waiting for vehicles to clear - therefore you can "race" ... not everyone will be racing, but a good proportion will be.

    Open road Sportives are often raced too, but you have to allow for the inevitable traffic problems - so in that way you can't really "race" ... hence most people seem to be happy to have a good (usually fast) ride with friends and/or try and do their time better than previously.
  • DiscoBoy
    DiscoBoy Posts: 905
    Whilst reading that article I was cringing so hard.
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    Whilst reading that article I was cringing so hard.

    Does it encourage you to join their "club" ... ?!
  • DiscoBoy
    DiscoBoy Posts: 905
    Slowbike wrote:
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    Whilst reading that article I was cringing so hard.

    Does it encourage you to join their "club" ... ?!

    Yes and no.

    yes: I hadn't heard of their product before this thread, and it isn't without merit as an idea.

    no: that post really makes me think less of their product
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • marcusjb
    marcusjb Posts: 2,412
    Slowbike wrote:
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    Whilst reading that article I was cringing so hard.

    Does it encourage you to join their "club" ... ?!

    I've nowhere near enough "raw talent and cycling prowess" to join their gang.

    What a load of onanistic nonsense.

    Fear not though, such behaviour spreads throughout cycling - people even brag about winning Audaxes.
    Stuff about riding a bike a long way
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    His account of the 'race' is cringeworthy indeed. Perhaps he should try some real racing.
  • wannabecyclist
    wannabecyclist Posts: 149
    If I get a faster time than someone on segments of a sportive then I am better than them. If they beat me on other segments then they were clearly the occasions when I was stuck behind a car, waiting for my mate to catch up or trying to get jelly beans out of my rear pocket.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    Imposter wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    A sportive is a sportive but it is very different when on closed rather than open roads IMO
    Depends on how closed the roads are too I guess.

    This seems to be confusing you slightly. A sportive is a sportive regardless of the status of the road. Even if people choose to ride differently on a closed road, they are still riding a sportive.

    ........ unless they are racing, not riding it :wink:
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    marcusjb wrote:
    Fear not though, such behaviour spreads throughout cycling - people even brag about winning Audaxes.

    I regularly win on my commute .... sometimes there's even another cyclist present ... ;)
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    so he "won" a the EdY "race".
    EdY call it a "non-competitive sportive".

    Take your pick.....

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