Fastest, cheapest brake improvement

Initialised

bikingjohn wrote:

MisterMuncher wrote:

Initialised wrote:

dilatory wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I find exactly the same coming from MTBing. My next road bike will definitely have disc brakes as rim brakes are not up to the job of stopping 100kg + on steep drops quickly.

While not like my hydraulic brakes, the new 6800 brakes are awesome! Seriously.

So would fitting these: Ultegra 6800 Brake Shoes, to existing calipers give roughly the same performance?

I've just moved 6800 pads/shoes over to my commuter with R650 long-drop brakes, having put SwissStop Greens on the good bike. All things being equal, they've improved the braking a great deal, but they're not just as sharp as the full 6800 calliper/brake combo. How much of that is down to the longer drop on the calliper I couldn't say.

I concur. I have been using Tektro R580 on my CAAD10 and then Alize (Nazare). I thought the brake were already very good after changing the pads to SwissStop green pads. Now the Ultegra 6800 brakes are MUCH better in braking. The pads and the calipers are just way better.

Thanks, my son's bike is on Sora brakes so I'll get the 6800 shoes when the stock pads wear down.

Miles253

why is having more lever travel going to give you better braking?
Also cleaning rims with vinegar has worked well for me.

Old_Timer

Initialised wrote:

Thanks, my son's bike is on Sora brakes so I'll get the 6800 shoes when the stock pads wear down.

Easy to do, they are marked as Dura Ace, Ultegra & 105 on the packaging. Make sure the Sora are cartridge type, if you haven't already covered that one, I cannot remember whether the Sora are that type or not. If they aren't get the ones with the carriers included. He'll appreciate this one, they are good cartridges with solid performance and wear real well.

Initialised

Old_Timer wrote:

Initialised wrote:

Thanks, my son's bike is on Sora brakes so I'll get the 6800 shoes when the stock pads wear down.

Easy to do, they are marked as Dura Ace, Ultegra & 105 on the packaging. Make sure the Sora are cartridge type, if you haven't already covered that one, I cannot remember whether the Sora are that type or not. If they aren't get the ones with the carriers included. He'll appreciate this one, they are good cartridges with solid performance and wear real well.

I'll need to get the shoes with pads built in as the current ones are just rubber blocks, not cartridge type. As mentioned before the cartridges start at 105 level. I did a similar upgrade on MTB Vs before, cartridge pads last longer, are easier to change and brake better.

vorsprung

Kajjal wrote:

mcnultycop wrote:

I put Koolstop salmons on and they felt similar to the original Tektro pads for two rides. They now appear to have bedded in and the improvement is massive. I'm a big unit (115kg) and descending was terrifying because of the inability to slow properly (being an MTBer used to superb brakes). Descending is still terrifying, but at least it is better controlled now.

I find exactly the same coming from MTBing. My next road bike will definitely have disc brakes as rim brakes are not up to the job of stopping 100kg + on steep drops quickly.

I like disk brakes too and I have them on a bike with 42mm tyres. This stops nicely on the road

My old aluminium Framed Orbea has been upgraded to 105 rim callipers. This also stops very well. In fact a bit too well. If I have the brakes full on there isn't enough traction from the tyres to slow the bike, it's easy to skid. I can't see how having disk brakes on this bike with its narrow tyres at high pressure would make it stop better.

apreading

vorsprung wrote:

My old aluminium Framed Orbea has been upgraded to 105 rim callipers. This also stops very well. In fact a bit too well. If I have the brakes full on there isn't enough traction from the tyres to slow the bike, it's easy to skid. I can't see how having disk brakes on this bike with its narrow tyres at high pressure would make it stop better.

Wait till it rains...

Initialised

apreading wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

My old aluminium Framed Orbea has been upgraded to 105 rim callipers. This also stops very well. In fact a bit too well. If I have the brakes full on there isn't enough traction from the tyres to slow the bike, it's easy to skid. I can't see how having disk brakes on this bike with its narrow tyres at high pressure would make it stop better.

Wait till it rains...

Reasons I love rim brakes:

The sense of foreboding during those extra wheel rotations I use to clear water, mud or ice from my rims in the wet or cold really get my adrenal glands going.

The noise of my tyres exploding due to heating up the rim on a long technical descent.

I enjoy repeatedly adjusting the cable length to compensate for pad wear.

I love being restricted to narrow tyre sizes by my brake calipers.

I like to treat my expensive carbon wheel rims as consumables.

I don't really like late braking or understand what threshold or cadence braking mean so why would I want a braking system that let me use these skills.

:roll:

philbar72

Initialised wrote:

dilatory wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I find exactly the same coming from MTBing. My next road bike will definitely have disc brakes as rim brakes are not up to the job of stopping 100kg + on steep drops quickly.

While not like my hydraulic brakes, the new 6800 brakes are awesome! Seriously.

So would fitting these: Ultegra 6800 Brake Shoes, to existing calipers give roughly the same performance?

nope. they are dual pivot and are impressively powerful. but only if you buy the full set of brakes. the shoes/pads won't make too much of a difference.

lesfirth

philbar72 wrote:

Initialised wrote:

dilatory wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I find exactly the same coming from MTBing. My next road bike will definitely have disc brakes as rim brakes are not up to the job of stopping 100kg + on steep drops quickly.

While not like my hydraulic brakes, the new 6800 brakes are awesome! Seriously.

So would fitting these: Ultegra 6800 Brake Shoes, to existing calipers give roughly the same performance?

nope. they are dual pivot and are impressively powerful. but only if you buy the full set of brakes. the shoes/pads won't make too much of a difference.

Oh yes it will. This subject has been done several times in the past at great length. All dual pivot calipers have similar dimensions and geometry. That is all that matters. I have asked several times for a technical reason why an expensive caliper will stop your bike better than a cheap one. Nobody has done.

MisterMuncher

Eventually, the pads bite on the rim with the same force and slow the wheel regardless of the calliper. There's a bit more to good braking than that, though. A more expensive, presumably better set of callipers, being stiffer, perhaps having freer movement, different amounts of mechanical advantage (see 6800 Callipers: altered pivot position, dual bearing pivot) might do so with less wasted effort, more modulation and better feedback. Those three factors make it easier to stop in a controlled fashion, which is the aim of the game.

Certainly pad type might be a major factor, but to disregard other elements of the system and assume it's simply a question of braking force is just plain silly.

lesfirth

MisterMuncher wrote:

Eventually, the pads bite on the rim with the same force and slow the wheel regardless of the calliper. There's a bit more to good braking than that, though. A more expensive, presumably better set of callipers, being stiffer, perhaps having freer movement, different amounts of mechanical advantage (see 6800 Callipers: altered pivot position, dual bearing pivot) might do so with less wasted effort, more modulation and better feedback. Those three factors make it easier to stop in a controlled fashion, which is the aim of the game.

Certainly pad type might be a major factor, but to disregard other elements of the system and assume it's simply a question of braking force is just plain silly.

I was expecting something a bit more technical than being accused of being "plain silly". This subject has been done extensively in the past. Educate yourself by doing a bit of searching and reading. I have no intension of going over it again.

MisterMuncher

I have read your previous comments on the subject, and have no real intention of getting into a pointless back and forth about what constitutes a sufficiently technical answer for your requirements. I'll be just grand for the education, thanks.

Also, I didn't accuse you of being plain silly, rather stated that your argument was.