options for an easier gear

adey8ball

hello there

i am using a cube with 6700 Di2 with an 50/34 compact & 11-28 cassette. on a recent ride up rundlestone i found it extremely difficult to climb (110kg weight) cadence was around 45 to 50 at points and was a real struggle. I have done Haytor (another struggle) and sidmouth (did walk). I still don't love hills but i am now including more and more hills rather than trying to avoid them. i don't want experiences like that or i will always hate hills.

i am losing weight (20kgs since jan) and intend to still lose more. i have got the Dartmoor classic coming up and am concerned that the hills will be a real struggle.

the only options are changing the front chainrings or the Cassette. however i think the 6700 only uses the SS rear derailuer and i think it can only take a 28 tooth maximum cassette.

what would be my options

can you get a smaller little chainring than 34
buy a 6800 GS Di2 rear deraileur and cassette
another option - Not just lose weight and MTFU

thanks for your help

gozzy

I don't think changing the front rings is an option, I suspect you'll not have the capacity in the mechs to do that.
Although you could perhaps change both. Spa cycles seem to do a 33t inner ring for 110bcd. AFAIK they stock about the most diverse range of chainrings in the country, so if they don't have lower then it probably doesn't exist. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong though.

However, since Shimano seem to be pretty conservative in what cassette will work, you could try fitting a 12-30, but you might need to screw the b-tension screw through from the other side of the mech to give clearance. I assume Di2 still has b-tension?
Otherwise you're going to have to splash the cash on a 6800 as far as I can figure.

Old_Timer

You might check the Shimano website for options on the cassette, or ask at your local shop. I don't believe they will use smaller than the stock compact small front chain ring when its Di2 so the back mechanicals are your best bet. I read some posts at another forum that addressed using a 30 big cog on the cassette with no problems.

Kudos on your weight loss to date, that will help your hill climbing a lot, best of luck on bettering your climbing abilities, they are my weak point, too.

hypster

I run an 11-32 Shimano XT cassette on my older Ultegra 6700 group with the standard dérailleur and the 'B' screw screwed in a bit . I don't know if the Di2 dérailleur is capable of handling this though, I guess the best way to find out is try it and see.

feisty

I run a 12-30T cassette on a compact (ultegra one here: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/s?q= ... 4294964100).

As you lose weight and build leg muscle you will find that the hills become easier (or you'll get quicker) and you might dip into the 30 as and when you need it but I find that having the extra gear as backup for the tough sections of some climbs is helpful. And I still find the gear changes are all smooth despite having slightly wider differences between gears than on your cassette

borisface

HTFU.

Seriously, as its going to be tricky to have lower gears on your current set-up - is going from 28 to 30 really going to help? your best bet would be to just ride more i.e. get fitter, combined with weight-loss. I would suggest avoiding the really steep hills until you get down to say 100 kgs and then when you re-encounter them you'll fly up.

feisty

I find that there is a marked difference between 28 and 30. It gives you that extra boost when you need it. Getting a Tiagra cassette is very cheap and will help you (not really sure why I got the ultegra version). If you do swap the cassette I was advised to get a new chain at same time.

I use the 30 a lot less since I have got fitter and stronger. But I'm glad I have it when it gets really tough on the worst bit of Toys Hill.

smoggysteve

borisface wrote:

HTFU.

Seriously, as its going to be tricky to have lower gears on your current set-up - is going from 28 to 30 really going to help? your best bet would be to just ride more i.e. get fitter, combined with weight-loss. I would suggest avoiding the really steep hills until you get down to say 100 kgs and then when you re-encounter them you'll fly up.

^^

Why throw money at a short term solution? Just get out there and ride. The weight will keep coming off and you will feel better for it than just taking an easier route of buying gears. Eventually you won't need them so no need for them now. Congratulations in getting this far and losing the weight you have so far. The lighter you get and the better your legs get it will all come together naturally.

verloren

SmoggySteve wrote:

Why throw money at a short term solution?

Perhaps because he has a short term problem? He has the Dartmoor Classic in less than two weeks, so it's unclear quite how H'd he can get TFU by then, or quite how much weight he can safely lose in 12 days.

adey8ball - as mentioned Shimano is pretty generous about upper limits on gears. I run SRAM, which I think is a little less forgiving, and am running a 12-29 with no problems. Going from a 28 to a 29 or 30 isn't suddenly going to get you spinning up the hills like Chris Froome, but it will make things a little easier for you. And then when you've slimmed down and hardened up you can switch to a 12-27

markhewitt1978

The cost of a 12-30 cassette isn't too bad and so is a good solution, as most people can't lose weight mega quickly.

ai_1

SmoggySteve wrote:

...Why throw money at a short term solution? Just get out there and ride. The weight will keep coming off and you will feel better for it than just taking an easier route of buying gears. Eventually you won't need them so no need for them now. Congratulations in getting this far and losing the weight you have so far. The lighter you get and the better your legs get it will all come together naturally.

What utter bull! The same ignorant nonsense taht gets trotted out every time a question like this is asked.
Short term solution? Easy solution? NO
It's the right solution to a real problem, it's not cheating. If you're heavy, you want to get up a hill and a smaller gear will let you do it, then why in the world should you let someone tell you you're not qualified for hills yet and you need to wait until you've trained more? If you just can't develop sufficient sustained power to get up the gradient in question that's a different matter but if you could manage if you had a lower gear then why the hell not? I needed smaller gears when I got started 3 years ago so that's what I used and I enjoyed it. As I got lighter and stronger I changed my setup. No money was wasted or thrown at a "short term solution". It was the correct solution and it was money well spent. Where feasible it's always better to adjust the equipment to suit the body than try and make the body adapt to the equipment. Few people with any clue will disagree.... funnily many cyclists will! :roll:
As cycling purchases go, a cassette is not a terribly big expense and if you need a smaller gear to more comfortably get through the rides you want to do then it's money worth spending. Much more so than most other cycling purchases.

slowbike

the Tiagra 30-12 cassette really isn't expensive. Cassettes are consumable anyway and it's available for £13.
Would be best if you had a mate with a 30-12 already or a relationship with an LBS (but retail is £25).

It's not throwing money at a short term solution - it's an inexpensive (hopefully) short term stopgap that will put you in a better place to complete a ride - and TBH, if it fits and works then it's unlikley you'll change back too quickly as the 34/30 combo can be quite handy.

I'm usually a "Standard" chainset type guy - 39/27 being my easiest gear. I changed the cranks for a compact set because I knew I'd be doing a hilly ride with my wife and didn't want to grind up at 30rpm.... anyway, the thought was that I'd change back to the standard chainset, but I never have and completed a hilly 100 miler (8500 feet) and other sorts of rides using the full range of gears available.
I do slightly miss not having the 53/12 bottom end - I currently have a 50-12 and once beyond 40mph there's not a lot I can (be bothered to) do to go faster - but TBH, 40mph is fast enough anyway ...
The point being that easier gears can be very useful and you don't lose a lot off the top end (if any) anyway.

chris_bass

have you considered gastroenteritis? my friend had that once and lost a lot of weight in a very short space of time!

not for everyone admittedly!

flasher

Chris Bass wrote:

have you considered gastroenteritis? my friend had that once and lost a lot of weight in a very short space of time!

not for everyone admittedly!

I tried that and it's not much fun, the weight dropped off pretty quickly, but I gained it back within a few weeks no matter what I tried to keep it off!

To the OP, as previously mentioned try a 12-30.

t4tomo

borisface wrote:

.
- is going from 28 to 30 really going to help? .

7% difference - can make a big difference if you are on the limit on a steep hill.

gozzy

Someone asked, "Why throw money at a short term solution to getting up some climbs?"

Why don't we ask the likes of Alberto Contador who famously uses SRAM wi-fli low gears when he hits the mountains? Should he htfu?

I think the answer really is, if you need smaller gears to get round a course, you get them and use them. I've always considered cycling to be about using gears appropriate to the terrain, depending on your ability.

Anonymous

Getting a bigger cassette is a no brainer if it fits, but I thought the issue was more about what to do if it doesn't because of the DI2.

Its sometimes a toughie between buying lower gears and just training to use the ones you have.
If its a pain/expensive to get the 30 on because of the Di2 then I would say training to use 2 less sprocket teeth is no big deal.

If the OP needs smaller than that its sell bike and get a triple time.

kajjal

I use the Tiagra 12-30 and it goes up anything I have found easily enough. Just get the gears you need to enjoy your riding and build your fitness, you may find a triple is better. One chap near us uses a mountain bike cassette to get him up hills which is even higher than a 30. Check with a good local bike shop for options and what is compatible with your bike.

When I started back road biking after injury I weighted over 100KG and it is hard work when you are building your fitness dragging that weight uphill. I have now lost about a stone and also due to being a lot fitter go hills easily enough. Some riders who are short , thin and weigh 60KG don't understand

littledove44

When I started last year I was 110kg and fitted an 11-34 on my Tiagra. No shame in that. We have steep hills around here and I would rsther pedal at a high cadence.

As I have got fitter I virtually stopped using the 34. On my new bike I have fitted
Ultegra 6800 with an 11-32 on the back. I hardly ever use the 32 but on a long day it's nice if a big hill comes at the end.

This is not a case of MTFU. What would be really stupid would be potentially damaging yourself muscling up a hill at a cadence of 45!

Mikey23

The dartmoor classic in two weeks is occupying my thoughts right now too! Not done it before, not done any dartmoor riding and will be using standard compact 34/28... I suspect there will a lot of people struggling with the tough bits. If i see you on the day, adey we can grind it out together. Im sure we wont be last

markhewitt1978

Gozzy wrote:

Someone asked, "Why throw money at a short term solution to getting up some climbs?"

Why don't we ask the likes of Alberto Contador who famously uses SRAM wi-fli low gears when he hits the mountains? Should he htfu?

I think the answer really is, if you need smaller gears to get round a course, you get them and use them. I've always considered cycling to be about using gears appropriate to the terrain, depending on your ability.

Do pro riders ever use compact chainsets for the mountains?

timothyw

If you had a couple of months, then I would suggest single speed (training or N+1) - I've bought a single speed in the last couple of months and it has made me much more confident cycling and climbing at low cadence (which is pretty much what you are likely to be stuck with).

Try a few climbs in your local area but leave the bike in too high a gear (50 rpm cadence or so, perhaps even lower!)- concentrate on pedalling the full rotation - you'll find you have to otherwise you start going backwards! Try and get in two or three sessions of this in before the big ride - make sure you leave a day or two between sessions to let your legs adjust, and a clear couple of days before the big ride (gentle pace only).

The problem with high cadence is it does tend to leave you with a rather underdeveloped pedal stroke - you just hit the pedals on the downstroke and let the momentum carry your legs around. It's the better option most of the time, but does mean that when you run out of gears you're stuffed.

borisface

I think you'll find Mr Contador uses a 32 sprocket because he rides in the big ring and that enables him to change down to a bigger gear at the top of climbs without having to shift rings. That's what I read him say anyway. Back to OP. Changing to a 30 maybe 7% easier on a steep climb but you'll go at least 7% slower, which may be about walking pace anyway.

markhewitt1978

Climbing in 34/30 isn't walking pace, far from it.

ai_1

borisface wrote:

....Changing to a 30 maybe 7% easier on a steep climb but you'll go at least 7% slower, which may be about walking pace anyway.

Still talking nonsense. 7% slower than what?
Your cadence will be higher and your torque applied to the pedals will be lower for the same power output and same cycling speed as the existing gear ratio. If he's changing because the cadence is currently too low and/or pedal force too high then this is the right solution. If he's changing because he needs to go slower but that puts the cadence absurdly low then he now has the option of going a little slower without the cadence getting even worse. Nothing wrong with going slower to get up a climb as long as you're not going so slow you'll have trouble keeping your balance. 8km/h or so is slow but can be sustained if necessary.

The 34/28 combo at 8km/h will equate to a cadence just over 51rpm which is very low.
Changing to 34/30 will allow you ride at the same speed with cadence of about 55rpm. Still low but noticeably better and maybe enough to make the difference. Alternatively you can stick with 51rpm and let the speed drop to take some of the load off the pedals.

Now, as for your comment about walking pace:
What speed do you walk at normally? I walk much faster than most and a reasonably brisk walk for me is maybe 6.5km/h. I think most people walk at around 5 to 6km/h and less going up a hill with a bike. So given a 34/30 combo is useful on at between 7km/h to 10km/h you are way off the mark.

borisface

Ai_1 wrote:

borisface wrote:

....Changing to a 30 maybe 7% easier on a steep climb but you'll go at least 7% slower, which may be about walking pace anyway.

Still talking nonsense. 7% slower than what?
Your cadence will be higher and your torque applied to the pedals will be lower for the same power output and same cycling speed as the existing gear ratio. If he's changing because the cadence is currently too low and/or pedal force too high then this is the right solution. If he's changing because he needs to go slower but that puts the cadence absurdly low then he now has the option of going a little slower without the cadence getting even worse. Nothing wrong with going slower to get up a climb as long as you're not going so slow you'll have trouble keeping your balance. 8km/h or so is slow but can be sustained if necessary.

The 34/28 combo at 8km/h will equate to a cadence just over 51rpm which is very low.
Changing to 34/30 will allow you ride at the same speed with cadence of about 55rpm. Still low but noticeably better and maybe enough to make the difference. Alternatively you can stick with 51rpm and let the speed drop to take some of the load off the pedals.

Now, as for your comment about walking pace:
What speed do you walk at normally? I walk much faster than most and a reasonably brisk walk for me is maybe 6.5km/h. I think most people walk at around 5 to 6km/h and less going up a hill with a bike. So given a 34/30 combo is useful on at between 7km/h to 10km/h you are way off the mark.

OK you win, you clearly know far more about overweight people going very slowly uphill than I'm ever likely to.

smoggysteve

Ai_1 wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

...Why throw money at a short term solution? Just get out there and ride. The weight will keep coming off and you will feel better for it than just taking an easier route of buying gears. Eventually you won't need them so no need for them now. Congratulations in getting this far and losing the weight you have so far. The lighter you get and the better your legs get it will all come together naturally.

What utter bull! The same ignorant nonsense taht gets trotted out every time a question like this is asked.
Short term solution? Easy solution? NO
It's the right solution to a real problem, it's not cheating. If you're heavy, you want to get up a hill and a smaller gear will let you do it, then why in the world should you let someone tell you you're not qualified for hills yet and you need to wait until you've trained more? If you just can't develop sufficient sustained power to get up the gradient in question that's a different matter but if you could manage if you had a lower gear then why the hell not? I needed smaller gears when I got started 3 years ago so that's what I used and I enjoyed it. As I got lighter and stronger I changed my setup. No money was wasted or thrown at a "short term solution". It was the correct solution and it was money well spent. Where feasible it's always better to adjust the equipment to suit the body than try and make the body adapt to the equipment. Few people with any clue will disagree.... funnily many cyclists will! :roll:
As cycling purchases go, a cassette is not a terribly big expense and if you need a smaller gear to more comfortably get through the rides you want to do then it's money worth spending. Much more so than most other cycling purchases.

This seems to be the default reply by those who would rather just throw money at a solution rather than grow some balls and just ride it out. Soft whiny tossers who can't or won't do it themselves so think it's ok to take the easy way out. OP you got this far on your own through hard work and perseverance. Don't become one of these losers. Keep working hard as you are and have some pride in yourself more than these cop outs do. Spend your way out of this and you may as well do it every time it gets a little tough. Remember you are not doing this to impress these guys, you're doing it for you.

I would rather fail 10 times on a climb and get it right through hard work than just splash out on something to make it a little bit easier. And if anyone disagrees you too are just a fool to yourself.

smoggysteve

Gozzy wrote:

Someone asked, "Why throw money at a short term solution to getting up some climbs?"

Why don't we ask the likes of Alberto Contador who famously uses SRAM wi-fli low gears when he hits the mountains? Should he htfu?

I think the answer really is, if you need smaller gears to get round a course, you get them and use them. I've always considered cycling to be about using gears appropriate to the terrain, depending on your ability.

1. Contador is racing and results matter more if its your job

2. He doesn't have to pay for his bike or bits

borisface

SmoggySteve wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

...Why throw money at a short term solution? Just get out there and ride. The weight will keep coming off and you will feel better for it than just taking an easier route of buying gears. Eventually you won't need them so no need for them now. Congratulations in getting this far and losing the weight you have so far. The lighter you get and the better your legs get it will all come together naturally.

What utter bull! The same ignorant nonsense taht gets trotted out every time a question like this is asked.
Short term solution? Easy solution? NO
It's the right solution to a real problem, it's not cheating. If you're heavy, you want to get up a hill and a smaller gear will let you do it, then why in the world should you let someone tell you you're not qualified for hills yet and you need to wait until you've trained more? If you just can't develop sufficient sustained power to get up the gradient in question that's a different matter but if you could manage if you had a lower gear then why the hell not? I needed smaller gears when I got started 3 years ago so that's what I used and I enjoyed it. As I got lighter and stronger I changed my setup. No money was wasted or thrown at a "short term solution". It was the correct solution and it was money well spent. Where feasible it's always better to adjust the equipment to suit the body than try and make the body adapt to the equipment. Few people with any clue will disagree.... funnily many cyclists will! :roll:
As cycling purchases go, a cassette is not a terribly big expense and if you need a smaller gear to more comfortably get through the rides you want to do then it's money worth spending. Much more so than most other cycling purchases.

This seems to be the default reply by those who would rather just throw money at a solution rather than grow some balls and just ride it out. Soft whiny tossers who can't or won't do it themselves so think it's ok to take the easy way out. OP you got this far on your own through hard work and perseverance. Don't become one of these losers. Keep working hard as you are and have some pride in yourself more than these cop outs do. Spend your way out of this and you may as well do it every time it gets a little tough. Remember you are not doing this to impress these guys, you're doing it for you.

I would rather fail 10 times on a climb and get it right through hard work than just splash out on something to make it a little bit easier. And if anyone disagrees you too are just a fool to yourself.

^^^ what he says.

ai_1

SmoggySteve wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

...Why throw money at a short term solution? Just get out there and ride. The weight will keep coming off and you will feel better for it than just taking an easier route of buying gears. Eventually you won't need them so no need for them now. Congratulations in getting this far and losing the weight you have so far. The lighter you get and the better your legs get it will all come together naturally.

What utter bull! The same ignorant nonsense taht gets trotted out every time a question like this is asked.
Short term solution? Easy solution? NO
It's the right solution to a real problem, it's not cheating. If you're heavy, you want to get up a hill and a smaller gear will let you do it, then why in the world should you let someone tell you you're not qualified for hills yet and you need to wait until you've trained more? If you just can't develop sufficient sustained power to get up the gradient in question that's a different matter but if you could manage if you had a lower gear then why the hell not? I needed smaller gears when I got started 3 years ago so that's what I used and I enjoyed it. As I got lighter and stronger I changed my setup. No money was wasted or thrown at a "short term solution". It was the correct solution and it was money well spent. Where feasible it's always better to adjust the equipment to suit the body than try and make the body adapt to the equipment. Few people with any clue will disagree.... funnily many cyclists will! :roll:
As cycling purchases go, a cassette is not a terribly big expense and if you need a smaller gear to more comfortably get through the rides you want to do then it's money worth spending. Much more so than most other cycling purchases.

This seems to be the default reply by those who would rather just throw money at a solution rather than grow some balls and just ride it out. Soft whiny tossers who can't or won't do it themselves so think it's ok to take the easy way out. OP you got this far on your own through hard work and perseverance. Don't become one of these losers. Keep working hard as you are and have some pride in yourself more than these cop outs do. Spend your way out of this and you may as well do it every time it gets a little tough. Remember you are not doing this to impress these guys, you're doing it for you.

I would rather fail 10 times on a climb and get it right through hard work than just splash out on something to make it a little bit easier. And if anyone disagrees you too are just a fool to yourself.

You're either missing the point to a stunning degree or more likely just trying to provoke a reaction. I'm not sure which it is.

There is no easy way out. There is no virtue in using inappropriate gearing. Those you refer to as soft whiners taking the easy way out are the very people who do considerably more work for every km they ride and especially for every meter they ascend than any lighter rider. Your rant is baloney. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. If you are sincere then you have no comprehension of basic physics or you're ignoring it. Why use a gear that prevents you cycling effectively when you can fit more appropriate gearing. Do you realise that the work done and power levels required are determined by the motion of the bike not the gear used to achieve it.

Let me suggest you try and logically argue why the rationale above which you detest is incorrect instead of making bile filled personal attacks with no rationale to back them up.

I assert that if you need a smaller gear to get up a hill you should use one for the reasons given in my previous post. Tell me why I'm wrong. If you can't or won't I'll have to assume you're just recycling someone else's nonsense and I'll remain confident you don't get it. Go on, take the challenge! Demonstrate your knowledge and my whiny softness.

P.S.
Borisface - feel free to try your hand too

smoggysteve

The OP has lost 20kg so far. That equates to the same as 2 average weight alu framed bikes. Going up 2 teeth you suggest. I would argue that in shedding 20kg he in a way already has. Physics as you keep relying on to justify your case takes no consideration for CV and leg muscle strength. I know big guys who can out climb people who weigh alot less. Why? Through training and putting the effort in.

Lets say he takes your advice and gets lower gears. He still struggles, do you suggest he gets even lower and lower gears? Where does it stop? How about people start just getting on the damn bike and pushing the peddles. You cant climb too well, technique coyld make a bigger difference than a few teeth on a cog. There are more variables to consider than weight vs gravity. Physics is not the means to answer every question and quite frankly your talking bollox with it.