Cycle helmets are pointless, says brain surgeon

littledove44

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/ne ... 105468.ece

It seems motorists gives us more space if we are helmetless.

chris_bass

Done to death (sorry for the choice of words)

tootsie323

littledove44 wrote:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article4105468.ece

It seems motorists gives us more space if we are helmetless.

How do you arrive at this conclusion from a very short article? One brain surgeon basing his opinion on those he has treated - we do not know how serious the accidents were.
Though... I would give a cyclist a wide berth if he were wearing a cowboy hat. Not necessarily in the interests of his safety.

simon_masterson

The neurosurgeon only sees those that requires his services...

rickeverett

Old Boy ... says it all.

Yes he cycles and only came off once, comes from a time long past.

ugo.santalucia

When I was downed by a cat crossing my front spokes, I don't think the cat gave a damn that I had a helmet on... but I was glad I did... the foam cracked, my skull didn't...
Statistics might point in one direction and there might be reasons for that, but you will never find a cyclist telling you he was glad he didn't have a helmet when he crashed.

The same arguments were used for seat belts in cars... you will always find resistance to change... for many centuries people still believed the earth was flat...

pilot_pete

Hit head on by a car doing 60mph, helmet makes little difference. We accept that.

Some studies have shown that drivers give cyclists more room if they are not wearing a helmet. I can accept that.

When I hit black ice at about 15mph and both wheels shot out from underneath me and I fell backwards landing on my back and my head whiplashed onto the road I was able to get back up, brush myself down and continue on. Stiff neck for a day or two. Without a helmet my skull would have taken the impact and I suspect I might have been requiring the services of said brain surgeon. Another club mate fell in the same accident, two fractured vertebrae and a fractured pelvis. No head injuries even though his helmeted nut struck the ground too.

Another club member had a car pull out on him at 20+mph. He hit the front wing, was launched over the bonnet cracking his head on the screen/ door pillar. As luck would have it he picked a great spot to crash:; right outside another cycling buddy's doctors surgery! He came out to find him in the road, conscious but concussed. I saw the photos of the car and the screen AND pillar were damaged. In the opinion of our GP friend if he hadn't have been wearing a helmet the chances are he would have died in the road in his arms.

The majority of cycling accidents seem to be at lower speeds (30mph or less) in my experience and I think a helmet can reduce potential injuries at these speeds if your head hits something like the road. For this reason I will continue wearing mine.

PP

charlie_potatoes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

for many centuries people still believed the earth was flat...

Eh! What shape is it then ?

littledove44

tootsie323 wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article4105468.ece

It seems motorists gives us more space if we are helmetless.

How do you arrive at this conclusion from a very short article? One brain surgeon basing his opinion on those he has treated - we do not know how serious the accidents were.
Though... I would give a cyclist a wide berth if he were wearing a cowboy hat. Not necessarily in the interests of his safety.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that I had arrived at a conclusion?

I just posted a link to a new article, and quoted one line from it. I made no comment about my own opinion of the issue, article, writer, or the surgeon.

I am far too sensible to think that personal opinions on controversial matters are best aired on a public forum.

rickeverett

Pilot Pete wrote:

Hit head on by a car doing 60mph, helmet makes little difference. We accept that.

Some studies have shown that drivers give cyclists more room if they are not wearing a helmet. I can accept that.

When I hit black ice at about 15mph and both wheels shot out from underneath me and I fell backwards landing on my back and my head whiplashed onto the road I was able to get back up, brush myself down and continue on. Stiff neck for a day or two. Without a helmet my skull would have taken the impact and I suspect I might have been requiring the services of said brain surgeon. Another club mate fell in the same accident, two fractured vertebrae and a fractured pelvis. No head injuries even though his helmeted nut struck the ground too.

Another club member had a car pull out on him at 20+mph. He hit the front wing, was launched over the bonnet cracking his head on the screen/ door pillar. As luck would have it he picked a great spot to crash:; right outside another cycling buddy's doctors surgery! He came out to find him in the road, conscious but concussed. I saw the photos of the car and the screen AND pillar were damaged. In the opinion of our GP friend if he hadn't have been wearing a helmet the chances are he would have died in the road in his arms.

The majority of cycling accidents seem to be at lower speeds (30mph or less) in my experience and I think a helmet can reduce potential injuries at these speeds if your head hits something like the road. For this reason I will continue wearing mine.

PP

I agree.

A neighbour was wiped out by a car turning left off the Main Road onto a Farmshop carpark. His helmet cracked open but he was 100% fine apart from some nasty scratches etc.
If he had no helmet on it could have been a fracture to the skull and other complications- even death. You just don't know.

I think the Old Boy surgeon is being irresponsible TBH. Stuck in the past.

Colinthecop

ugo.santalucia wrote:

When I was downed by a cat crossing my front spokes, I don't think the cat gave a damn that I had a helmet on... but I was glad I did... the foam cracked, my skull didn'.

This has to be the most insensitive post i've read on a forum in a long time....

Any decent human being would know that the vast majority of people reading this are hoping and praying the cat was alright after you ran it over.

But no, not so much as a clue as to how poor kittie got on....!!!

:roll:

mustgettaller

madasahattersley wrote:

+++++++

6wheels

But no, not so much as a clue as to how poor kittie got on....!!!

Having a cat as a pet, I was wondering exactly the same!

:shock:

frisbee

He's only going to treat people who have a brain injury or suspected brain injury, he has no awareness of helmet wearers who sustained no injury or minor injuries.

al_kidder

From the Queensland Parliamentary Commitee report into cycling laws (Nov last year)

he Committee is concerned that the introduction of mandatory helmet laws may have had an
unintended, adverse impa
ct on cycling participation rates in Queensland and therefore the overall
health of the state. It also believes there is sufficient evidence provided by the Northern Territory
example that a relaxation of mandatory helmet laws in lower risk situations (suc
h as cycling on
footpaths and on dedicated cycle paths), does not inevitably reduce the safety of cycling.
The Committee is therefore of the view that relaxing mandatory helmet laws in specific circumstances
is likely to
increase cycling participation rat
es with a range of associated health benefits and
economic benefits in tourism areas.
The Committee also b
elieves that a relaxation of mandatory
helmet laws
may
assist in normalising the perception of cyclists by motorists.

Sorry about the format. Cut & pasted from a pdf.

They recommended abolition of helmet laws except on roads with a speed limit of 80kmh or higher. Not that helmets don't have benefits in low speed bumps, but they decided that the benefits of getting people moving outweigh the risks of those bumps.

Personally, as far as concussion goes, I can tell you that I have been knocked out by mistiming heading of a soccer ball as a kid and mistiming tackles playing rugby. I've done much more riding than playing football and in my few crashes, my head has never gone near the road, "though I have dented a couple of car doors with my shoulders

Mikey23

@ colinthecop... Pity it wasn't the one that uses my garden as it's toilet...

zcapp96

This is one of those debates that cannot be effective on a forum. As someone has already said that surgeon would only see those that need his attention and not the many who were able to brush themselves off and carry on their way. I was one of these myself last October when the wheels slipped out from under me when going around a corner and my helmeted head cracked on the road before I even realized what was happening! I'm certain that without a helmet I would have been seriously injured. On the other side those that do not wear a helmet and comment on such a discussion are a disproportionate sample of all helmet wearers as they have not had the kind of accident that a helmet would protect them from as if they had have done then they would either be dead or no longer in a fit mental state to be able to write comments on a forum!

Mikey23

Wonder if he wears that paper hat when cycling...

ugo.santalucia

The cat magically disappeared on the other side of the wheel... thanks to my wildlife friendly round spokes... think about it next time you want wheels with bladed spokes...

charlie_potatoes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

think about it next time you want wheels with bladed spokes...

I'm going to sharpen mine up tonight. Maybe I will bag a couple of Squirrels on my Surrey Hills ride tomorrow :twisted:

neilo23

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

think about it next time you want wheels with bladed spokes...

I'm going to sharpen mine up tonight. Maybe I will bag a couple of Squirrels on my Surrey Hills ride tomorrow :twisted:

Let's hope the squirrels are wearing crash helmets

Southgate

Recently got wiped out racing. I'm being wheeled into theatre for an op on a smashed wrist when my mum calls to check I'd had been wearing a helmet!

charlie_potatoes

neilo23 wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

think about it next time you want wheels with bladed spokes...

I'm going to sharpen mine up tonight. Maybe I will bag a couple of Squirrels on my Surrey Hills ride tomorrow :twisted:

Let's hope the squirrels are wearing crash helmets

Heheh! I'll let you know tomorrow.

neilo23

Southgate wrote:

Recently got wiped out racing. I'm being wheeled into theatre for an op on a smashed wrist when my mum calls to check I'd had been wearing a helmet!

Does she post here on the "great helmet debates"?

Southgate

^ Fortunately she doesn't know how to use a computer, or she'd be prolific! She is so convinced of the magic powers of the polystyrene hat, I think she'd be quite happy for me to ride down the fast lane of the M1 so long as I had a lid on. Still, it's nice to know that mums still care about you, even at my age

I wear a lid with no illusions. It's no big deal to me and there may be the odd occasion, I wouldn't put it stronger than that, where it might prevent some damage. And it keeps my mum happy.

StillGoing

"No need for Neuro-surgeons" says cabbage.

Ouija

ugo.santalucia wrote:

for many centuries people still believed the earth was flat...

People have never believed the earth was flat.......

jscl

As someone said above, Australia regrets introducing compulsory helmet laws. It has driven down participation by some 30-50% in areas.

36% of a Danish adults commute by bike to work daily, but only 3% wear helmets and they have some of the lowest cycling related accidents on the roads. It sounds daft, but the surgeon is right. Helmets are good to have because they are offering a layer of protection to the head. But, EU laws only require helmets to be tested up to an impact of only 12mph. The majority of accidents do not happen at this speed. This means that above 12mph, many helmets could be completely ineffective. I'd recommend having a read through this - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... po=22.7273 .

So whilst I think he's right to an extent, I'd probably recommend still sticking to wearing a helmet

briantrumpet

neilo23 wrote:

Let's hope the squirrels are wearing crash helmets

If it's red squirrels they should be wearing seatbelts, even if they don't go very fast:

chris_bass

JSCL wrote:

As someone said above, Australia regrets introducing compulsory helmet laws. It has driven down participation by some 30-50% in areas

Is that a true statistic? I think more than 70 % of cyclists I see are wearing helmets already so don't think it would have the same impact here. Having said that, i don't think it should be compulsory and just down to people's choice

ugo.santalucia

Comparing Denmark with UK is a bit unfair... most commuters in Denmark use Dutch type bikes, in a way similar to a Boris Bike... Lower baricentre, long wheelbase, big tyres, low speed, it's very difficult to fall off one of those and when you do, you fall on your feet. I don't use a helmet on a Boris Bike. Road bikes are different