new 105 group set

cyuan16

Do you guys think that manufacturers will change their 2014 road bikes/ come out with new bikes in june when the new 105 group set comes out? Or will they wait until 2015 to change their bikes to the new 105.

Grill

Doubtful, as they already have OEM deals in place to cover the current model year which they won't change (see 6800). Anything with 5800 will either be a late release or more likely, a 2015 model.

chris_bass

yeah, i think they'll wait for the 2015 models to come out, but they tend to start appearing and getting announced towards the end of July anyway so not too long to wait.

rickeverett

Canyon have the new 105 on the new Endurance Carbon range - currently says "coming soon" however so will probably be one of the first New 105 bikes of 2014.

Old_Timer

If the various manufacturers had any advanced deals with Shimano for access to the new 105 we might see some bicycles with it. Maybe a few of the larger manufacturers with close ties to Shimano had early information or worked with Shimano under an agreement to keep details quiet until it was formally released so they had early shipments of the new 105 components. Whether its complete groups or bits and pieces I have no idea, maybe no new crank set but the mechanicals and shifters on bicycles using BB30 or one of the standards Shimano doesn't support.

downhill paul

What is the difference between the two 105 group sets?

philbar72

downhill paul wrote:

What is the difference between the two 105 group sets?

5700 is 10 speed, 5800 is 11 speed.

downhill paul

Does an extra cog on the rear cassette really make a difference?

rickeverett

downhill paul wrote:

Does an extra cog on the rear cassette really make a difference?

nope

you still have 11T and 25/28T which is all you need for Fast or Climb

Moonbiker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

DiscoBoy

downhill paul wrote:

What is the difference between the two 105 group sets?

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... ook-40450/

cyuan16

Yeah, I mean the new 105 also just has a totally new look, which looks really good, almost as good as ultegra. I am wondering if I were to buy a new bike, whether to buy it this summer, or use my current bike for a bit longer and just wait until the 2015 road bikes come out? Or maybe buying a used carbon bike with a quality frame, then when the 105 group set comes out, just buy the new group set. Thoughts?

cyuan16

Moonbiker wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

Hahaha, that's good.

iPete

downhill paul wrote:

What is the difference between the two 105 group sets?

You can also get 52/36 if you fancy a semi-compact chainset.

gozzy

downhill paul wrote:

Does an extra cog on the rear cassette really make a difference?

Yes, your chain will wear out quicker.

Bozman

If the improvement from 5700 to 5800 is anywhere near as good as the difference between Ultegra 6700 and 6800 then 105 5800 will be a damn sight better than Ultegra 6700. I've got 6800 and Dura ace 7900 on a couple of bikes and the new Ultegra shifts a lot better than the Dura ace.

markhewitt1978

cyuan16 wrote:

Do you guys think that manufacturers will change their 2014 road bikes/ come out with new bikes in june when the new 105 group set comes out? Or will they wait until 2015 to change their bikes to the new 105.

It'll be the same as the Ultegra change last year. All the new models of bikes released this year will have 11 speed 105 on them. Generally the '2015' models will be available in July / August this year. So you should be able to pick one up then.

Old_Timer

Not sure of the exact specifications for the new 105, but if it has the same crank spider design as the Ultegra 6800 and Dura Ace, the fact you can fit wither road double rings (53-39,) Mid compact (52-36) or compact (50-36) makes it worth looking at for me. I wouldn't be concerned much about chains wearing out faster due to the side plate thickness, Shimano's quality control and engineering most likely addressed the issue in metallurgy and manufacturing methods. Its enough for me to look at the group and consider replacing my SRAM Rival group.

Bill

downhill paul

I did have my eye on a specialized allez race bike, which supposedly has the 105 group set.
on closer inspection, the only 105 components are the front and rear derailleur and the STI brake and gear levers.
the rear cassette is Tiagra, the brakes are R561, the bottom bracket and cranks are FSA and the chain is a KMC X10.
even the tarmac, another bike I had my eye on doesn't have a full 105 group set.
the cranks and bottom bracket are FSA, the rear cassette is Tiagra and the chain is a KMC X10.
is it really asking too much to have a full 105 group set on the bike of your choice? the full group set doesn't even cost that much. it would cost even less for a big company buying them in bulk.

Am I right in saying that if you buy a bike fitted as standard with FSA cranks and bottom bracket, you can't replace them with a Shimano alternative? maybe the cranks but I don't think the bottom bracket can simply be swapped over.
how long will a FSA BB30 last? will it really make that much difference having a FSA bottom bracket and crank set instead of the Shimano alternative?

foggymike

If it's BB30 you can get adapters (the praxis one is the best I've seen) to fit Shimano's chainsets, no problem. Most people think that Shimano have the slickest front shifting chainset design (patented so it can't be exactly copied). It's not a deal breaker but nice to have if you are replacing.

markhewitt1978

downhill paul wrote:

I did have my eye on a specialized allez race bike, which supposedly has the 105 group set.
on closer inspection, the only 105 components are the front and rear derailleur and the STI brake and gear levers.
the rear cassette is Tiagra, the brakes are R561, the bottom bracket and cranks are FSA and the chain is a KMC X10.
even the tarmac, another bike I had my eye on doesn't have a full 105 group set.
the cranks and bottom bracket are FSA, the rear cassette is Tiagra and the chain is a KMC X10.
is it really asking too much to have a full 105 group set on the bike of your choice? the full group set doesn't even cost that much. it would cost even less for a big company buying them in bulk.

Am I right in saying that if you buy a bike fitted as standard with FSA cranks and bottom bracket, you can't replace them with a Shimano alternative? maybe the cranks but I don't think the bottom bracket can simply be swapped over.
how long will a FSA BB30 last? will it really make that much difference having a FSA bottom bracket and crank set instead of the Shimano alternative?

I think you perhaps have a misaligned perception that you're expecting a stock bike to come with all 105, all Ultegra or whatever - it depends how it's marketed of course. But you need to look at the full specification and make your judgement from there. Having non-series chainsets, lower spec cassette and brakes is standard practice.

downhill paul

As far as the allez race is concerned, the shifting is done by the 105 STI shifters and the 105 front and rear derailleur. so will it make any difference as to what rear cassette and crank set is used?
how long will the FSA bottom bracket and crank set last and compare performance wise to the 105 bottom bracket and crank set?
if the FSA bottom bracket and crank set doesn't last as long/perform as well as the 105 equivalent, can you simply buy a 105 bottom bracket and crank set to replace the stock FSA?

Grill

You'll find that companies with different bottom bracket standards will rarely, if ever, use the groupset manufacturers chainset (SRAM is the exception as they do both BB30 and GXP versions). The Allez uses BB30 so it's not like they're going to sell their bike with BSA adapter cups fitted.

wongataa

downhill paul wrote:

As far as the allez race is concerned, the shifting is done by the 105 STI shifters and the 105 front and rear derailleur. so will it make any difference as to what rear cassette and crank set is used?

Different brands cassettes & chainrings would have different ramps & tooth profiles which would affect gear shifting. How much the effect would be and what it would be is a different matter.

downhill paul

The allez sport which I have uses a shimano bottom bracket and shimano cranks, so why does the allez race and bikes such as the tarmac use FSA bottom brackets and cranks?

philbar72

downhill paul wrote:

The allez sport which I have uses a shimano bottom bracket and shimano cranks, so why does the allez race and bikes such as the tarmac use FSA bottom brackets and cranks?

Cheaper. less hassle and designed for bb30. the ultegra etc bits are 24mm and require bsa adaptors.

downhill paul

What was designed for the BB30?
if allez, the sport and the elite all have a shimano bottom bracket and either the claris, sora or tiagra crank set, why can't specialized use a shimano bottom bracket and crank set on the more expensive bikes? surely the shimano bottom brackets and cranks aren't that much more expensive than FSA.
I'm sorry if my questions seem a little stupid. I've never owned a bike with an FSA bottom bracket or crank set before. I'm trying to find out as much information as I can before buying a bike that has either fitted.

Grill

downhill paul wrote:

What was designed for the BB30?
if allez, the sport and the elite all have a shimano bottom bracket and either the claris, sora or tiagra crank set, why can't specialized use a shimano bottom bracket and crank set on the more expensive bikes? surely the shimano bottom brackets and cranks aren't that much more expensive than FSA.
I'm sorry if my questions seem a little stupid. I've never owned a bike with an FSA bottom bracket or crank set before. I'm trying to find out as much information as I can before buying a bike that has either fitted.

Both FSA and SRAM make BB30 specific chainsets (along with a few other manufacturers).
It was developed by Cannondale in an attempt to create a new standard. They're under the impression that the 30mm axle makes it stiffer (it doesn't). Essentially it uses pressfit bearings instead of a sleeved BB. Unfortunately the tolerances are rubbish and lead to creaking an premature wear.

As I said you can use adapter cups to allow fitment of 24mm chainsets, but it's a rare practice for companies that use BB30 as their standard.

downhill paul

It looks like I might be upgrading my allez sport with a full 105 groupset instead of buying a new bike.
it already has a shimano bottom bracket, so replacing it with a 105 bottom bracket won't be a problem.
I certainly don't want a bike that will require servicing more often, or a bike that will need parts replacing where better quality parts will simply need cleaning and re lubing.

Just out of interest, how much would it cost to have a full new group set fitted?
from what I have found, the cost of the group set it's self varies from shop to shop.
is there much weight difference between the sora groupset that I have now and the 105?

Grill

Get it here for 300 quid: http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-5700-groupset-oem-66608.html

Shouldn't cost more than 60-70 quid to get it fitted, or you can just do it yourself.

downhill paul

Thanks for the help :-)
I have found mixed reviews on the BB30 bottom brackets. so as it stands at the moment I am not sure what to do.