road tubeless, worth it?

ugo.santalucia

domgears wrote:

Hi Defride,

Thanks for the update, I also note your earlier post about the weights of them, this is my other concern, I am likely to be getting some AX Lightness Ultra 28 Clinchers, they are only 1060g, I have a sneaky suspicion that the additional weight may well be noticed on such light rims.

Currently I am using GP4000sII with supersonic tubes (just 45g per tube) on Fulcrum Racing Zeros and they give a nice feel, I have never tried Schwalbe so am not sure how the feel and durability would differ.

A tubeless tyre weighs more or less like the equivalent tyre + tube...
If you are worried about the + or - 20 grams, then cut the story short and stick to tyres and tubes...it's pointless
to even start if you are worried about that

domgears

Hi Ugo,

The difference is a little more than 20g, it is more like 70g, which when paired with very lightweight rims adds a substantial amount to the rotating mass.

So if the rim is 300g then 70g is a 25% addition to the rotating mass, if there were tubeless that came in under 300g then it may be more viable, I like the idea of them but I guess I need to wait for greater adoption for more options on tire choice.

ugo.santalucia

domgears wrote:

Hi Ugo,

The difference is a little more than 20g, it is more like 70g, which when paired with very lightweight rims adds a substantial amount to the rotating mass.

So if the rim is 300g then 70g is a 25% addition to the rotating mass, if there were tubeless that came in under 300g then it may be more viable, I like the idea of them but I guess I need to wait for greater adoption for more options on tire choice.

Do you believe in tyre weight? For instance a GP 4000 in 650 size weighs 205 grams, while the 700 weighs 215 grams... they are considerably different in size, yet according to continental there is only 5% weight difference.
If you cut them and stretch them, there are about 20 cm difference, so 10% of the tyre length... so the 700 should be close to 230 or the other way round.
When you go down to the gram, manufacturer's declared tyre weight are completely meaningless.

Frank Wilson

As a complete and utter non technical / not up to date with the "in terms" what is the definition of the terms you all use e.g.

Tubeless, This I understand

Tubs, not a clue,

Clinchers, not a clue.

In fact on the beginners forum why don't one of you in the know type people put an "idiots guide" to all the terminology.

drlodge

Frank Wilson wrote:

As a complete and utter non technical / not up to date with the "in terms" what is the definition of the terms you all use e.g.

Tubeless, This I understand

Tubs, not a clue,

Clinchers, not a clue.

In fact on the beginners forum why don't one of you in the know type people put an "idiots guide" to all the terminology.

Tub = tubular tyre (totally circular enclosing the inner tube) - glued or taped onto the rim
Clincher - the other non-tubular type of tyre, semi circular in shape and attaches to the edges of the rim (hence it "clinches" the rim)

Tubeless tyres are clinchers.

Frank Wilson

drlodge wrote:

Frank Wilson wrote:

As a complete and utter non technical / not up to date with the "in terms" what is the definition of the terms you all use e.g.

Tubeless, This I understand

Tubs, not a clue,

Clinchers, not a clue.

In fact on the beginners forum why don't one of you in the know type people put an "idiots guide" to all the terminology.

Tub = tubular tyre (totally circular enclosing the inner tube) - glued or taped onto the rim
Clincher - the other non-tubular type of tyre, semi circular in shape and attaches to the edges of the rim (hence it "clinches" the rim)

Tubeless tyres are clinchers.

Cheers for that, so just help me a bit more, the Tub type, how would you change one of them on a ride if punctured, do you need to carry around this glue then or am I being thick?

drlodge

Frank Wilson wrote:

Cheers for that, so just help me a bit more, the Tub type, how would you change one of them on a ride if punctured, do you need to carry around this glue then or am I being thick?

You carry a spare tub that is pre-glued. If punctured...pull the old tyre off, put the pre-glued tyre on and pump up. Ideally you should then remove this tyre and reapply fresh glue before fitting properly.

The dried glue on the spare tyre will certainly stick enough to get you home. I also carry a can of sealant as this provides a second option if its just a tiny hole or you puncture both wheels.

maddog 2

there are some lighter tubeless tyres such as the Atom and another I can't recall

but if you are a weenie then clinchers are lighter. You can get tubes at 50g ish and tyres at maybe 180g, so 230 all in.

the lightest tubeless is going to be, what 270-280 I bet.

Depends what you want, as always.

mmacavity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOw-sH15VLU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jix_puHwh8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBa88zZossE

davidof

maddog 2 wrote:

Depends what you want, as always.

I don't want a 50 gramme latex tube blowing out at 80kph downhill and killing me. YMMV.

domgears

davidof wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Depends what you want, as always.

I don't want a 50 gramme latex tube blowing out at 80kph downhill and killing me. YMMV.

Try the Conti supersonics, only 45g, not latex, they are still standard tubes just thinner, I find them very nice, a lot better than standard tubes.

When I have had punctures they have been slow, I had 4 or 5 within a month or so because of bad weather and worn out rear tire, it just starts feeling spongy and bouncy and slowly deflates, no blow outs ever, I was just over 100kg and run at 125 PSI, so if they had potential to blow I am sure they would have.

Give them a try, only 6 euros from Bike-discount

drlodge

domgears wrote:

Try the Conti supersonics, only 45g, not latex, they are still standard tubes just thinner, I find them very nice, a lot better than standard tubes.
[...]
Give them a try, only 6 euros from Bike-discount

Wow that's cheap - they're £10 here :shock:

I use them too on the Rourke and have never had a blow out, just a gentle "let down" when punctured.

drlodge

Actually they're EUR 9.07 as of now ;-)

domgears

I guess because I am living in Singapore they are less than 7 Euros because I don't pay the VAT but Euro 9 is still less than 10 pounds right, I just make sure I order a few when I order other things.

ugo.santalucia

domgears wrote:

When I have had punctures they have been slow, I had 4 or 5 within a month or so because of bad weather and worn out rear tire, it just starts feeling spongy and bouncy and slowly deflates, no blow outs ever, I was just over 100kg and run at 125 PSI, so if they had potential to blow I am sure they would have.

That's nothing to do with the inner tube. A small hole will leak slowly, a bigger hole will leak quicker... you just were lucky enough to get small punctures.
It's pipe of rubber with a valve, there's no witchcraft in it

g00se

ugo.santalucia wrote:

domgears wrote:

Would you care to elaborate on the 10-12 options that you know of? The best option I have seen so far were Schwalbe Ultremo ZX (If I remember correctly) but I can't find them available for purchase anywhere.

What, in your opinion, would be the best tubeless tyre available?

Dom

Hutchinson has a wide range, Schwalbe has a small number, Bontrager has a few, Maxxis and others a bit overpriced.
I don't know... I am waiting to see if Schwalbe sends me a demo of their One Tubeless to test, I'm too poor to buy them..

Just third hand info from me....

The guy who built my wheels swears by the Bontrager R3 tubeless tyres after running various Hutchinson tyres - apparently they are MUCH easier to put on and take off and the 25mm version at low pressure ride much more like tubs. Still haven't tried tubeless yet but I may over the winter.

Also, for completeness of the list of manufacturers, IRC from Japan are supposed to make very good tubeless tyres, but as they have no distributor here, you'll have to import them which puts the price up into Schwalbe territory:

http://www.alexscycle.com/tyres-tires/tubeless/road-en/