Only for the non helmet wearers!

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Comments

  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.

    That's all very well but even cyclists who don't wear helmets cost the taxpayer less in hospital bills than non cyclists so how are you going to play that?

    The only logical outcome is the end of the NHS - cyclists with lids cost less than cyclists without who cost less than normal sedentary people who cost less than obese people who cost less than obese smokers who live only on junk food etc etc.

    Once there is a sliding scale of service dependant on various health factors 1) the overall costs will go up massively as you have to try to work out who deserves what and 2) the whole concept of the NHS is lost.

    Do you really want to restrict access to NHS services to non lid wearing cyclists who are almost at the top of the tree in minimising their impact on the taxpayer?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    I've cost the NHS far more since I took up cycling because of my habit falling off and breaking bits. The fracture clinic has a streaky supply of damaged cyclists...
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.

    what about smokers, drinkers, obese people, drug takers should they all be exempt from NHS funds too?

    Don't think we can pick and choose who gets to use the NHS and who doesnt.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    I realise I wasn't invited to this thread, but that's not stopped others in my shoes from commenting.

    I'm 44 and always wear a helmet. As a kid, me and my mates would do silly things on our BMXs without bothering with lids, but that's just how it was back then. Wearing one now doesn't bother me in the slightest. It makes me feel better protected - whether I actually am or not - and it makes my wife more comfortable with me cycling amongst traffic. It was right for me not to wear a helmet in the olden days and it's right for me to wear one now in the future.
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Rolf F wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.

    That's all very well but even cyclists who don't wear helmets cost the taxpayer less in hospital bills than non cyclists so how are you going to play that?

    The only logical outcome is the end of the NHS - cyclists with lids cost less than cyclists without who cost less than normal sedentary people who cost less than obese people who cost less than obese smokers who live only on junk food etc etc.

    Once there is a sliding scale of service dependant on various health factors 1) the overall costs will go up massively as you have to try to work out who deserves what and 2) the whole concept of the NHS is lost.

    Do you really want to restrict access to NHS services to non lid wearing cyclists who are almost at the top of the tree in minimising their impact on the taxpayer?

    Difficult to argue with what you've written. I am sure someone will try though :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    sparklehedgehog wrote:
    I haven't ever heard a single decent argument for not wearing one.

    Try it ... just once - on a cyclepath doing no more than 12mph on a nice day.

    It is just nicer not wearing a helmet. That is why I don't wear one when I feel the risk is so low that it won't make any difference if I do or don't.
    In hindsight I didn't need to wear one at all so far this year, last year, the year before or the year before that. (prior to that I wasn't cycling much).

    The only time I was knocked off I didn't hit my head - and iirc I wasn't wearing a lid anyway - probably didn't own one.
  • Cygnus
    Cygnus Posts: 1,879
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.
    So are you saying that any cyclist who suffers a head injury and was not wearing a helmet should be left to die in the road? :roll:
  • Cygnus
    Cygnus Posts: 1,879
    Carbonator wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    image.jpg

    The era this pic is from is from a time when I was obsessed with cycling, riding 3-6 hours a day, buying every magazine, book, video etc I could afford. It's also not that long ago. I don't recall anyone getting worked up about the riders not wearing helmets back then. I'm also pretty sure that a good percentage (I bet it's more like a good majority) of people who get so worked up here about people not wearing helmets also didn't wear them then or if they did, didn't lecture constantly about the dangers of not wearing one.
    Brainwashed would be an exageration but people who came to the sport 10 years after this time have simply grown up with automatically donning a skid-lid due to perceived (or real) levels of danger. For those of us who started earlier it was just as automatic to not wear one. For me it still is and I intend to keep it that way.

    Then why don't you just do it instead of coming on here having a go at the vast majority of people who chose to wear one?!

    Either that or build a time machine and go back to the era you seem to love so much.
    Can you snitch on Jimmy Saville whilst you are there :wink:

    Things move on, and hopefully get better.
    They probably did not have the tech to make cycle helmets back then.

    I am not brainwashed. I read this thread and still choose to wear a helmet.
    Its not 'perceived' levels of danger. The danger is very real, I have seen it with my own eyes :roll:
    That's what I hate about the helmet wearing brigade, they accuse the non-helmet wearers of trying to force them to not wear a helmet when in fact it's the helmet wearers who are trying to force the non-helmet wearers to wear a helmet.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    Let's not lose freedom of choice, society is wrapped up in health and safety as it is and it seems to be getting worse, sooner or later you're going to lose that choice and we'll all end up sitting at home wrapped up in cotton wool praying that the roof doesn't fall in..
    If you want to wear one, you wear one and if you don't want to wear one, don't wear one. Simple.
  • Cygnus
    Cygnus Posts: 1,879
    Bozman wrote:
    Let's not lose freedom of choice, society is wrapped up in health and safety as it is and it seems to be getting worse, sooner or later you're going to lose that choice and we'll all end up sitting at home wrapped up in cotton wool praying that the roof doesn't fall in..
    If you want to wear one, you wear one and if you don't want to wear one, don't wear one. Simple.
    +1
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Cygnus wrote:
    That's what I hate about the helmet wearing brigade, they accuse the non-helmet wearers of trying to force them to not wear a helmet when in fact it's the helmet wearers who are trying to force the non-helmet wearers to wear a helmet.

    Lolirony! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Ouija
    Ouija Posts: 1,386
    Cygnus wrote:
    Bozman wrote:
    Let's not lose freedom of choice, society is wrapped up in health and safety as it is and it seems to be getting worse, sooner or later you're going to lose that choice and we'll all end up sitting at home wrapped up in cotton wool praying that the roof doesn't fall in..
    If you want to wear one, you wear one and if you don't want to wear one, don't wear one. Simple.
    +1

    +2

    You have to self assess. If i lived and in London i'd wear a helmet (and full body armour, lol) as it's just insane. Same goes for any other built up city or urban area. Likewise if i was throwing my bike all over the place off road (mtb).

    I live out in the sticks, can go without seeing a car for hours, often ride at night along the forest trails where i don't see anything other than badgers and owls and can barely remember the last time i came off my bike (it happens once every few years). So, i wear a very long brimmed baseball cap as it provides better shade and coverage to the elements than a helmet. Others ride in different conditions so their self assessment might require them to wear a helmet.

    It's a bit like saying everyone should wear a bullet proof vest irrespective of weather they encounter people shooting at them or not (Police, Military etc). Assess your level of risk and take the appropriate precautions.
  • zanelad
    zanelad Posts: 269
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.
  • zanelad
    zanelad Posts: 269
    Ouija wrote:
    Be interested to know what those who don't wear instead (baseball caps, woolly hats etc), if anything.

    Nothing usually. A beanie hat if it's cold, or a cycling cap if I'm likely to get sunburn (MPB I'm afraid :x ).
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    I didn't come on here to have a go at anyone about wearing a helmet. I actually believe that they probably do help prevent injuries in some cases. As I originally stated I didn't want this to turn into yet another debate about the pros and cons of helmets. There are already too many of them to be found here. If you actually read my original post I was simply interested in knowing about the people who DON'T wear them and if they come from the generation in which wearing one was for the pros and amateurs more or less unheard of. As usual the thread has been hijacked by the helmet-brigade which was not my intention (see title: "For non helmet wearers"). As I remember there wasn't even a helmet debate 15 years ago. People just rode bikes and enjoyed themselves without constantly worrying about the what-ifs.

    Incidentally I live in a country with no NHS and pay a small fortune each month for private health insurance. I also pay on average €3000 - €4000 a month in tax (which is far more than I can pay myself) so if some people want to use that argument here's my response.
  • lapavoni10
    lapavoni10 Posts: 146
    I wear it when it raining, or sometimes at night. When its cold I either wear a beanie or helmet liner.
    When its hot I never wear one...although it does not make much difference with heat, I like that naked feeling on my head.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,468
    Just to disprove the age / helmet use theory, take a walk past the local BMX park. I doubt you'll see a single child / teenager in there wearing a helmet despite doing the type of riding where a helmet is likely to be of the greatest benefit (hitting head on ramps or the floor at fairly low speed). I also see lots of kids out just riding around the street who don't wear one. It tends to be more when they are going on 'rides' (usually with their family) that kids will wear one. I see lots of people of all ages still riding without, it's funny that you don't really notice if they are in normal clothes but as soon as they are in lycra it looks odd for them not to be wearing a helmet.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Zanelad wrote:
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.


    I think this was the exact point of the very first post, not that it really matters anymore
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Zanelad wrote:
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.


    I think this was the exact point of the very first post, not that it really matters anymore

    Exactly! That's what I intended. But it's obvioulsy impossible to mention helmets without another "great debate". Should have realised that beforehand :D
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    neilo23 wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Zanelad wrote:
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.


    I think this was the exact point of the very first post, not that it really matters anymore

    Exactly! That's what I intended. But it's obvioulsy impossible to mention helmets without another "great debate". Should have realised that beforehand :D

    to be fair this one actually started off pretty reasonable so you should be commended for that!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Chris Bass wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Zanelad wrote:
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.


    I think this was the exact point of the very first post, not that it really matters anymore

    Exactly! That's what I intended. But it's obvioulsy impossible to mention helmets without another "great debate". Should have realised that beforehand :D

    to be fair this one actually started off pretty reasonable so you should be commended for that!

    You're right, I was somewhat surprised :-)

    But still, I was annoyed at the staunch pro-helmet people coming on and getting annoyed with me when they were not the people who were invited to comment. :roll:
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    neilo23 wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Zanelad wrote:
    I'm 56 and never wear one. I bought one but it sits in the garage.

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets and I guess the habit's stuck.


    I think this was the exact point of the very first post, not that it really matters anymore

    Exactly! That's what I intended. But it's obvioulsy impossible to mention helmets without another "great debate". Should have realised that beforehand :D

    to be fair this one actually started off pretty reasonable so you should be commended for that!

    You're right, I was somewhat surprised :-)

    But still, I was annoyed at the staunch pro-helmet people coming on and getting annoyed with me when they were not the people who were invited to comment. :roll:

    unfortunately some people saw the title of your thread as

    HELMET HELMET HELMET HELMET!!!!!!!!!!!

    same happens with a few topics,
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • Old_Timer
    Old_Timer Posts: 262
    Helmet being in a title for a thread seems to be a red flag to both sides of the issue. Other forums I frequent have taken to moving any helmet thread into a merged single thread in a sub-forum for safety and such topics, or flat closing them. No middle ground seems to exist when we attempt to talk or discuss helmets in any form. What is it about this topic that inflames people so? I am a helmet wearer, comes from my motorcycle background, if you choose not to wear a helmet that is your decision and none of my business. Jumping on someone for not wearing a helmet seems counterproductive to me, most people dig in their heels when backed into a corner about something. To each their own.
    Lets just got for a ride, the heck with all this stuff...
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Did somebody say helmet?
  • Lambretta_Special
    Lambretta_Special Posts: 52
    Hahaha every forum has a argument topic and I see I have found the cycling one. :D

    so heres my tuppence worth :)

    Im 47 and never worn a helmet, cycled every day rain or shine as a youth on my eddie merckx. Nothing competitive just riding.
    In my twenties if mentioned I had been cycling the inevitable sneer from a mate and "did you wear a peanut" comment would pop up lol :)
    Trying to get back to riding again now after a year or so I have purchased a helmet from aldi for £13.
    Two reasons for wearing one now.
    1: they are light tech construction these days and offer a little protection.
    although I am under no illusion that they may help with a fall and bang of the head, hitting a car etc head on will make no difference whatsoever. And that goes for my aldi helmet or some £200 jobby ;)

    2: helmet and glasses on (help keep the flies out of eyes) :) I have less chance of being recognised looking a prat in lycra hahaha :D

    anyway I had reservations about wearing one for comfort reasons, I cant stand wearing anything on my head including glasses. But I will say the helmet was comfortable and light and wasn't noticed. Same for the bike specific , aldi or lidl glasses. In fact I would go as far as to say it felt more natural on the bike.

    that said there will be times, mainly short runs to shops etc where I wont wear one.
    its nice to have the choice.
    and I dont mind paying into the nhs for peeps who refuse to wear one.
    you dont have to wear a helmet as a pedestrian but you can still fall and bang your head ;)
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    don't wear 44years old, several pile ups with and without helmet and fwiw they all hurt.

    Yes I've had the helmet in pieces crash and no I don't think it saved my life. Personally i enjoy riding without one. And i hate people telling me what i should do or think. Especially when they've got fark all idea.

    I don't wear gloves either.

    sometimes i stay out late.

    i swear and make appropriate gestures at motorists that cut me up.

    I won't mention red lights.

    I may eat too much salt as well but I'm not sure and care less.

    Peace out
  • Phil Fouracre
    Phil Fouracre Posts: 207
    Great thread, no ranting, fantastic. Yup, to original post, probably based on habit/age etc. 59 and never worn one since riding as a child. Two spectacular offs, both resulting in knee damage, should I wear knee pads??
  • Cygnus
    Cygnus Posts: 1,879
    This seems like a breath of fresh air, great that the trolls have stayed away this time :)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Cygnus wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.
    So are you saying that any cyclist who suffers a head injury and was not wearing a helmet should be left to die in the road? :roll:

    Not saying that at all. Did not even begin to say how NHS funds should be dished out and do not want to.

    Was just a general feeling that if you do not reasonable care of yourself then you should not expect everyone else to.

    Not sure how it would work in the states if you do not have health cover. Guess they would not leave you to die in the road, but am damn sure having health cover would get you decent treatment.
    Wonder if non wearing of helmet when riding a road bike fast would void a claim though. Would not be surprised if it did.

    I do think fat people should pay more for plane tickets though. And have to go in a bigger seat if really fat.
    That would be really easy to quantify and 100% fair IMO
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Thanks guys. That's what I was after. All went a bit pear-shaped in the middle :D

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