Only for the non helmet wearers!

slowbike

Carbonator wrote:

vs wrote:

They are designed to sell.

They're only have to pass BSEN1078 safety standard (if you can find a helmet with a Snell Foundation B90 - or higher - sticker in them, that's a substantially stronger standard for example). Therefore, for safety, a better, practical choice would be a full face downhill cycling helmet.

As you said, the people you know still had major operations despite wearing a cycling helmet.

Yawn.

Oh yeah, its all a big conspiracy 8) Sorry I forgot :roll:
They actively make them cr4p just to have an extra giggle at us in the factory :roll:

One guy landed on his head and it was his spine that was damaged, so would have made no difference if he had had a tougher helmet on.
Would have made a big difference if he had not been wearing one though

Thought this was a helmet v no helmet argument anyway? Saying you should wear a tougher helmet is more in favour of helmets surely, so what are you even on about.

The helmet has to be wearable whist cycling and its only for medium sized bashes I guess.
Talking about full face helmets is stupid. People wearing those usually have body armour or leathers on.
You just need to take reasonable precautions, not go OTT or do bugger all.

If I took my family on a power boat I would put the safety cut out around my wrist.
Cannot help but think a lot of non helmet wearers would not bother.

So road cycle helmets are a compromise - otherwise if they were purely for safety we'd be cycling around in great big airbags ...

Btw - if you took your family on a powerboat the safety cutout (or kill chord as it's properly known as) may not be available - it depends on the size of boat. Generally, the larger boats (tons) with inboard engines do not have kill chords as it's considered the risk of the helm falling away from the controls is minimal. Go a bit smaller to the ribs and speed boats with outboards and you'll get kill chords - and they should normally be used - although again, it does depend on what you're doing with it - but as the only negative effect is that if you move away from the controls then the engine may cut out it's advisable to connect it anyway.

It is not comparable to wearing a cycle helmet. I would prefer not to wear one, but I generally do, unless I'm out in civies. Most of the time, for the minimal inconvenience caused it's no great issue.

morstar

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

chris_bass

morstar wrote:

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

I think most people know it is personal choice but are so bored with helmet debate threads they don't bother commenting.

Having said that this thread was actually pretty good as far as anything remotely helmet related goes

neilo23

Get a bit "helmet - debatey" folks :roll:

al_kidder

Chris Bass wrote:

morstar wrote:

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

I think most people know it is personal choice but are so bored with helmet debate threads they don't bother commenting.

Having said that this thread was actually pretty good as far as anything remotely helmet related goes

I skipped to the last page, so I don't know if anybody mentioned the sunburn that you can get wearing a helmet in the sunnier parts of the world.

Me, bald, redhead. Live in Oz. Local cops decided to harass me for wearing a cycling cap instead of a compulsory helmet. It is only on cloudy winter days that I don't get a severely sunburned scalp from the light coming through the vents in the helmet. I already have had skin cancers cut off my scalp. As a result of wearing the helmet last summer I now have a constantly itchy head, except when I get sharp stabbing pain.

When helmet laws came in in this country there was only a very slight drop in deaths and injuries, easily explained by a drop in cycling participation. In Queensland a parliamentary review of the cycling laws last year recommended abolition of helmet laws, except on 80kmh or higher speed roads. To me that smacks of a bone being thrown to the helmet lobby to say "look, a compromise". I mean, if a truck hits you at 100kmh a helmet won't do much for you.

We have about a 1/80 risk of dying from skin cancer in this country vs about 1/4000 for cycling deaths. Since those are lifetime risks and I'm way past the childhood accidents the risk moves even more to the skin cancer.

That said, I might consider wearing one without complaint in the UK. Not for car or truck crashes, but for wet roads and skids. After all, the sun is much weaker and you only get about 3 warm days a year, so there wouldn't be a sweat problem.

JackPozzi

Al Kidder wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

morstar wrote:

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

I think most people know it is personal choice but are so bored with helmet debate threads they don't bother commenting.

Having said that this thread was actually pretty good as far as anything remotely helmet related goes

I skipped to the last page, so I don't know if anybody mentioned the sunburn that you can get wearing a helmet in the sunnier parts of the world.

Me, bald, redhead. Live in Oz. Local cops decided to harass me for wearing a cycling cap instead of a compulsory helmet. It is only on cloudy winter days that I don't get a severely sunburned scalp from the light coming through the vents in the helmet. I already have had skin cancers cut off my scalp. As a result of wearing the helmet last summer I now have a constantly itchy head, except when I get sharp stabbing pain.

When helmet laws came in in this country there was only a very slight drop in deaths and injuries, easily explained by a drop in cycling participation. In Queensland a parliamentary review of the cycling laws last year recommended abolition of helmet laws, except on 80kmh or higher speed roads. To me that smacks of a bone being thrown to the helmet lobby to say "look, a compromise". I mean, if a truck hits you at 100kmh a helmet won't do much for you.

We have about a 1/80 risk of dying from skin cancer in this country vs about 1/4000 for cycling deaths. Since those are lifetime risks and I'm way past the childhood accidents the risk moves even more to the skin cancer.

That said, I might consider wearing one without complaint in the UK. Not for car or truck crashes, but for wet roads and skids. After all, the sun is much weaker and you only get about 3 warm days a year, so there wouldn't be a sweat problem.

As mentioned above I don't wear a helmet, but confused as to why you can't wear a cap under a helmet to prevent sunburn?

al_kidder

JackPozzi wrote:

Al Kidder wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

morstar wrote:

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

I think most people know it is personal choice but are so bored with helmet debate threads they don't bother commenting.

Having said that this thread was actually pretty good as far as anything remotely helmet related goes

I skipped to the last page, so I don't know if anybody mentioned the sunburn that you can get wearing a helmet in the sunnier parts of the world.



That said, I might consider wearing one without complaint in the UK. Not for car or truck crashes, but for wet roads and skids. After all, the sun is much weaker and you only get about 3 warm days a year, so there wouldn't be a sweat problem.

As mentioned above I don't wear a helmet, but confused as to why you can't wear a cap under a helmet to prevent sunburn?

The vents in your helmet are there to allow air flow to keep your head cool. Wearing a cap under your helmet kills the airflow. It is a bit like opening a window on a hot day, but then putting on a jumper. Plus it means even more sweat runs into your eyes.
I've tried riding up local hills on 30C days ( 86F) and felt the early stages of heatstroke. Same hills at 40 (104F) with no problem wearing a cap.
With the skin damage that I have, the cap under a helmet causes scratching pain from the pressure of the firmly strapped on helmet even when it is cool enough for the sweat to be no bother ie less than 22C (72F).

charlie_potatoes

Al Kidder wrote:

JackPozzi wrote:

Al Kidder wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

morstar wrote:

I think the biggest problem with the helmet debate is the quality of debate. Either for or against, some of the most obtuse and spurious arguments or wilful misinterpretations crop up from deep in left field.
Some good examples developing in this thread.

I think most people know it is personal choice but are so bored with helmet debate threads they don't bother commenting.

Having said that this thread was actually pretty good as far as anything remotely helmet related goes

I skipped to the last page, so I don't know if anybody mentioned the sunburn that you can get wearing a helmet in the sunnier parts of the world.



That said, I might consider wearing one without complaint in the UK. Not for car or truck crashes, but for wet roads and skids. After all, the sun is much weaker and you only get about 3 warm days a year, so there wouldn't be a sweat problem.

As mentioned above I don't wear a helmet, but confused as to why you can't wear a cap under a helmet to prevent sunburn?

The vents in your helmet are there to allow air flow to keep your head cool. Wearing a cap under your helmet kills the airflow. It is a bit like opening a window on a hot day, but then putting on a jumper. Plus it means even more sweat runs into your eyes.
I've tried riding up local hills on 30C days ( 86F) and felt the early stages of heatstroke. Same hills at 40 (104F) with no problem wearing a cap.
With the skin damage that I have, the cap under a helmet causes scratching pain from the pressure of the firmly strapped on helmet even when it is cool enough for the sweat to be no bother ie less than 22C (72F).

Some sort of sun cream perhaps?

al_kidder

Read the bottle. It clearly says keep away from eyes. The sweat will wash it in.

charlie_potatoes

Al Kidder wrote:

Read the bottle. It clearly says keep away from eyes. The sweat will wash it in.

Which bottle? A quick internet search should help??
http://www.zbloksun.com/testimonials.html

sparklehedgehog

Older was supposed to mean wiser...

neilo23

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Older was supposed to mean wiser...

The older I get the less I'm opposed to wearing a helmet. It doesn't look that uncool :-) And even if it did look daft the rest of me is starting to look sillier with my wobbly stomach and the encroaching wirey eyebrow hairs. Lovely! :-D

Agent57

neilo23 wrote:

Just curious to know if the other helmetless riders are similar or are there younger riders who also don't bother?

I'm 45, and currently don't wear one. I went through a phase of a few years when I did wear it, even for short pootles to the shops.

I still consider wearing mine occasionally if the roads are likely to be icy, but have mostly fallen out of the habit again.

Ouija

Be interested to know what those who don't wear instead (baseball caps, woolly hats etc), if anything.

rickeverett

I have found its the 40+ riders who tend not to ware helmets.

Think its a combination of what was the "done thing" in the past and stupidity IMO.

Agent57

Or a reasonable assessment of the actual risks involved.

Cygnus

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

sparklehedgehog

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

chris_bass

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

not sure I agree with that, if they weren't wearing a helmet and we're killed it would be cheaper

Cygnus

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

We all pay tax, not just you.

chris_bass

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

it puzzles me too, some people seem way to bothered about what other cyclists do, it's either what they are wearing, not wearing, water bottles, etc etc

do they get that worked up about other things in their life that don't affect them

sparklehedgehog

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

We all pay tax, not just you.

You're right but i don't act stupidly trying to waste more of the taxpayers money than others. My tax could come down along with yours if people more sensible. Why should i contribute to others' idiocy?!

It's no different to you saying you should be able to drive round in cars with no seat belts on, drive at whatever speed you wish and ignore any other sensible common sense based advice for no decent reason.

I haven't ever heard a single decent argument for not wearing one.

sparklehedgehog

If in doubt, ask this guy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-li ... e-25086451

Cygnus

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

We all pay tax, not just you.

You're right but i don't act stupidly trying to waste more of the taxpayers money than others. My tax could come down along with yours if people more sensible. Why should i contribute to others' idiocy?!

It's no different to you saying you should be able to drive round in cars with no seat belts on, drive at whatever speed you wish and ignore any other sensible common sense based advice for no decent reason.

I haven't ever heard a single decent argument for not wearing one.

You sound like a UKIP supporter.

sparklehedgehog

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

We all pay tax, not just you.

You're right but i don't act stupidly trying to waste more of the taxpayers money than others. My tax could come down along with yours if people more sensible. Why should i contribute to others' idiocy?!

It's no different to you saying you should be able to drive round in cars with no seat belts on, drive at whatever speed you wish and ignore any other sensible common sense based advice for no decent reason.

I haven't ever heard a single decent argument for not wearing one.

You sound like a UKIP supporter.

Hahahaha

neilo23

Ouija wrote:

Be interested to know what those who don't wear instead (baseball caps, woolly hats etc), if anything.

I wear a simple old fashioned cycling cap or nothing if it's really warm weather.

neilo23

The era this pic is from is from a time when I was obsessed with cycling, riding 3-6 hours a day, buying every magazine, book, video etc I could afford. It's also not that long ago. I don't recall anyone getting worked up about the riders not wearing helmets back then. I'm also pretty sure that a good percentage (I bet it's more like a good majority) of people who get so worked up here about people not wearing helmets also didn't wear them then or if they did, didn't lecture constantly about the dangers of not wearing one.
Brainwashed would be an exageration but people who came to the sport 10 years after this time have simply grown up with automatically donning a skid-lid due to perceived (or real) levels of danger. For those of us who started earlier it was just as automatic to not wear one. For me it still is and I intend to keep it that way.

Anonymous

neilo23 wrote:

The era this pic is from is from a time when I was obsessed with cycling, riding 3-6 hours a day, buying every magazine, book, video etc I could afford. It's also not that long ago. I don't recall anyone getting worked up about the riders not wearing helmets back then. I'm also pretty sure that a good percentage (I bet it's more like a good majority) of people who get so worked up here about people not wearing helmets also didn't wear them then or if they did, didn't lecture constantly about the dangers of not wearing one.
Brainwashed would be an exageration but people who came to the sport 10 years after this time have simply grown up with automatically donning a skid-lid due to perceived (or real) levels of danger. For those of us who started earlier it was just as automatic to not wear one. For me it still is and I intend to keep it that way.

Then why don't you just do it instead of coming on here having a go at the vast majority of people who chose to wear one?!

Either that or build a time machine and go back to the era you seem to love so much.
Can you snitch on Jimmy Saville whilst you are there

Things move on, and hopefully get better.
They probably did not have the tech to make cycle helmets back then.

I am not brainwashed. I read this thread and still choose to wear a helmet.
Its not 'perceived' levels of danger. The danger is very real, I have seen it with my own eyes :roll:

Anonymous

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

sparklehedgehog wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I just don't understand why some people get so het up about others not wearing helmets. So what, it's not your head, why should you be worried?

Maybe because our tax pays for those fools when it comes to NHS bills which could've been drastically cheaper and save a skint government spending needlessly on people unwilling to be sensible. It's not rocket science, just pure ignorance.

Should be law!

We all pay tax, not just you.

You're right but i don't act stupidly trying to waste more of the taxpayers money than others. My tax could come down along with yours if people more sensible. Why should i contribute to others' idiocy?!

It's no different to you saying you should be able to drive round in cars with no seat belts on, drive at whatever speed you wish and ignore any other sensible common sense based advice for no decent reason.

I haven't ever heard a single decent argument for not wearing one.

You sound like a UKIP supporter.

Hahahaha

Lots of people just want to do whats best for them when it suits (but fcuk the consequences on everyone else) and yet want all the benefits of society when that suits.

We live in generation easyjet unfortunately.

I don't believe in compulsory helmet wearing, but you should not get unlimited NHS cash allocated to you if you fail to take reasonable precautions to avoid serious injury IMO.

sparklehedgehog

People used to drink and drive, not wear seat belts and be told by doctors to start smoking!

Doesn't mean the overwhelming evidence to NOT do these isn't there now as our race has progressed.

Maybe we should go back to caves too...