Season So Far....Please.
Comments
-
DeVlaeminck wrote:Oh well it'd be rather dull if we all agreed.
I agree. Nothing wrong with a bit of debate and we are not contracted to all like eachother and get on! Would be really boring if we all jizzed our pants over the same teams/riders. I see things havnt changed all that much since I've been gone! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, not sure why it becomes such an issue between parties!
Anyway, Thanks everyone for the different interpretations of racing so far! Sounds like things could be interesting now the Sky machine is crumbling! Hopefully no more dull Tours!0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Oh well it'd be rather dull if we all agreed.
Completely agree. That was all sorts of pish upthread on The Classics, DV :P...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Anyway, Thanks everyone for the different interpretations of racing so far! Sounds like things could be interesting now the Sky machine is crumbling! Hopefully no more dull Tours!
If you think last season's Tour was dull, it's time to give up watching cycling again.0 -
andyp wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Anyway, Thanks everyone for the different interpretations of racing so far! Sounds like things could be interesting now the Sky machine is crumbling! Hopefully no more dull Tours!
If you think last season's Tour was dull, it's time to give up watching cycling again.
LL didn't watch the Tour last year and the only reason it was interesting was because Sky couldnt win like they wanted to.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Says the man who'll be in a 24-7 orgasmic state if Bert's in yellow from the second weekend right through to the Champs, finishing with a similar sort of advantage over second place as Froome had over Nairo
Oh the humanity0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:Oh well it'd be rather dull if we all agreed.
I agree. Nothing wrong with a bit of debate and we are not contracted to all like eachother and get on! Would be really boring if we all jizzed our pants over the same teams/riders. I see things havnt changed all that much since I've been gone! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, not sure why it becomes such an issue between parties!
Anyway, Thanks everyone for the different interpretations of racing so far! Sounds like things could be interesting now the Sky machine is crumbling! Hopefully no more dull Tours!
In that spirit, I have to say i don't hin kany of the classics were especially boring - not greats either - but not as bad as the Eeyores are making out...
Anyway, welcome back buddy, hope you ll stick around!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Now for a slightly more negative view !
The classics season has been a bit disappointing. Amstel, Fleche and Liege were all poor, Roubaix was fascinating but fell flat at the finish, not a bad edition but not a classic, Flanders again was interesting but not a classic, MSR was just plain disappointing. Strade Bianche worth watching if we are calling that a classic, I don't see why we shouldn't it's a better race than MSR most years.
Sky have been poor, illness, injury, bad luck and poor form. Stannard and Thomas have shown themselves as big talents but they need to have more luck and maybe more backing, EBH confirms his best days are behind him.
Wiggins had ridden well in Roubaix before so 9th after focusing on it as a target is goodish but for a Tour winner coming towards the end of his peak years it'll be irrelevant when we weigh up his season, he never looked like a possible winner and Thomas was far more impressive.
Contador and Valverde good, Sagan's progress has stalled, Cav been in and out, Giro lacks heavyweight contenders.
EBH is 26. I'm not trying to suggest he's going to win a grand tour but how old were Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, Jaoquim Rodriguez or Bradley Wiggins when they hit their peak years? Even Fabian Cancellara was 25 when he won his first classic and had his best years from 2010 (29+) onwards.
He might be too nice to be dominant, but don't write him off yet. His best years should still to be ahead of him.
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Says the man who'll be in a 24-7 orgasmic state if Bert's in yellow from the second weekend right through to the Champs, finishing with a similar sort of advantage over second place as Froome had over Nairo.
eh? Sky and Contador simply are not similar in any respects. And I would prefer it if it came down to the wire between two or three riders with a large gap to the rest. Also who is Bert?Richmond Racer wrote:Oh the humanity
Just eh?Contador is the Greatest0 -
-
frenchfighter wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26.
WOW. I thought he was 30 something.
No, he just currently rides like he is 30 something0 -
ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26. I'm not trying to suggest he's going to win a grand tour but how old were Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, Jaoquim Rodriguez or Bradley Wiggins when they hit their peak years? Even Fabian Cancellara was 25 when he won his first classic and had his best years from 2010 (29+) onwards.
He might be too nice to be dominant, but don't write him off yet. His best years should still to be ahead of him.
Hmm, there are quite good reasons why some of those riders you mentioned didn't hit their peack until later though. Cadel Evans was around when doping was rife (and we assume he was clean). I think most people give Sastre the benefit of the doubt as well. Bradley Wiggins was a track rider who only decided to concentrate on the track (and lose weight) later in his career. Fabian Cancellara was almost solely a time trial winner and GT domestique so he only really seriously trained for the classics later in his career.
I think EBH will probably get better but I'm just saying.0 -
Yellow Peril wrote:frenchfighter wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26.
WOW. I thought he was 30 something.
No, he just currently rides like he is 30 something
He still overated then? Hmm, the old EBH chestnut.
Thing that gets me is EVERY YEAR we have the usual "Thomas, EBH, Kennaugh, Whoever is looking pretty good, should be ready to make the step up and play with the bigger boys soon" Convo's but it never comes to fruition - I know they are still relatively young etc but the progress they are making just isnt leaps and bounds like some of the other youngsters. Maybe Sky is a hinderence for some riders due to lack of opportunities - I don't know, but it is mighty frustrating!
IMO EBH will never win a monument. Ever.0 -
ddraver wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:Oh well it'd be rather dull if we all agreed.
I agree. Nothing wrong with a bit of debate and we are not contracted to all like eachother and get on! Would be really boring if we all jizzed our pants over the same teams/riders. I see things havnt changed all that much since I've been gone! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, not sure why it becomes such an issue between parties!
Anyway, Thanks everyone for the different interpretations of racing so far! Sounds like things could be interesting now the Sky machine is crumbling! Hopefully no more dull Tours!
In that spirit, I have to say i don't hin kany of the classics were especially boring - not greats either - but not as bad as the Eeyores are making out...
Anyway, welcome back buddy, hope you ll stick around!
Cheers chap - glad to be back so far!0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Yellow Peril wrote:frenchfighter wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26.
WOW. I thought he was 30 something.
No, he just currently rides like he is 30 something
He still overated then? Hmm, the old EBH chestnut.
Thing that gets me is EVERY YEAR we have the usual "Thomas, EBH, Kennaugh, Whoever is looking pretty good, should be ready to make the step up and play with the bigger boys soon" Convo's but it never comes to fruition - I know they are still relatively young etc but the progress they are making just isnt leaps and bounds like some of the other youngsters. Maybe Sky is a hinderence for some riders due to lack of opportunities - I don't know, but it is mighty frustrating!
IMO EBH will never win a monument. Ever.
I think it might be lack of opportunity. Gerrans now has a free reinat OGE and is filling his boots where conversely Porte was signed to do a job at Saxo but has worked his way out of slavery at Sky to lead. Who knows what the time line is like in Sky's consideration of rider development. It seems at the moment that there is a lot of potential talent being kept in the cellar and being given a quarter turn once a week for a long time to come.0 -
A change in environment could do wonders for EBH. If I remember correctly, Gerrans wasn't so hot at Sky either. That team is wasting so much talent with their mountain leadout trains.0
-
Remarkable wrote:A change in environment could do wonders for EBH. If I remember correctly, Gerrans wasn't so hot at Sky either. That team is wasting so much talent with their mountain leadout trains.
A agree in one sense for the individual (although I'm sure they are handsomely rewarded) but back to back TdF titles would contradict that it is a waste as far as the team is concerned0 -
They aren't though are they. The riders have a choice to ride for Sky or go to another team like Uran, Gerrans and Dowsett have done. The riders who remain can be part of a winning team or go to another squad and maybe score the odd stage win or come 7th in the Giro.
Sky are only in their 5th year so it's inevitable some of the guys who don't quite get leaders gigs will move on and see what they can do elsewhere but I don't think being part of that setup is wasted. Uran, who has been part of said lead out trains was very complimentary about them when he moved on.0 -
Remarkable wrote:A change in environment could do wonders for EBH. If I remember correctly, Gerrans wasn't so hot at Sky either. That team is wasting so much talent with their mountain leadout trains.
The mountain leadout trains that were last seen at Ruta del Sol and not really since, you mean? Not seen at T-A, P-N, Trentino or Catalunya (and dont go looking for one at AToC - you wont see one there either). And a glimmer yesterday, but no more than that.
I'm quite intrigued to see what happens if EBH does move. Anyone see/hear Dan Lloyd's comments on EBH recently? Said he thought the thing with EBH is that he was an extremely early developer, everyone's expectations were tuned up (perhaps) really high - perhaps higher than EBH's natural development pace could satisfy. Lloydy thinks EBH does want to stay, but that Sky have offered him a pay cut - and his agent's playing media games to jack up his price.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Lloydy thinks EBH does want to stay, but that Sky have offered him a pay cut
They probably thought for a laugh "let's offer him a pay cut, he'll probably read it too quickly and say yes", he's a bit of a mouth breather after all.0 -
mfin wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Lloydy thinks EBH does want to stay, but that Sky have offered him a pay cut
They probably thought for a laugh "let's offer him a pay cut, he'll probably read it too quickly and say yes", he's a bit of a mouth breather after all.
Charmante0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:
The mountain leadout trains that were last seen at Ruta del Sol and not really since, you mean? Not seen at T-A, P-N, Trentino or Catalunya (and dont go looking for one at AToC - you wont see one there either). And a glimmer yesterday, but no more than that.
I'm quite intrigued to see what happens if EBH does move. Anyone see/hear Dan Lloyd's comments on EBH recently? Said he thought the thing with EBH is that he was an extremely early developer, everyone's expectations were tuned up (perhaps) really high - perhaps higher than EBH's natural development pace could satisfy. Lloydy thinks EBH does want to stay, but that Sky have offered him a pay cut - and his agent's playing media games to jack up his price.
But we are likely to see it at the Tour de France again, aren't we?
Garmin seems a little empty with the exception of Dan Martin. Might be a good fit for him?smithy21 wrote:
Sky are only in their 5th year so it's inevitable some of the guys who don't quite get leaders gigs will move on and see what they can do elsewhere but I don't think being part of that setup is wasted. Uran, who has been part of said lead out trains was very complimentary about them when he moved on.
Wise guy. Don't burn your bridges.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:The mountain leadout trains that were last seen at Ruta del Sol and not really since, you mean? Not seen at T-A, P-N, Trentino or Catalunya (and dont go looking for one at AToC - you wont see one there either). And a glimmer yesterday, but no more than that.
It is pointless doing a leadout for a B/C rider because your A rider chose to stay home and you have no chance or desire of winning. Also tough if half your team is fatigued after 15 days and 2000km of racing. If they were in the driving seat with a leader I am sure they would have tried to turn on the gas.
It is totally true what Remarkable says re EBH. He was a stage hunter and one day racer but has modified his training and mentality to ride the train. He seems happy enough doing that although I guess he will get the itch sooner or later.
Now they have used and abused him and taken away fan's viewing pleasure they are looking to lower his salary or throw him on the scrap heap like many others?Contador is the Greatest0 -
Remarkable wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:
The mountain leadout trains that were last seen at Ruta del Sol and not really since, you mean? Not seen at T-A, P-N, Trentino or Catalunya (and dont go looking for one at AToC - you wont see one there either). And a glimmer yesterday, but no more than that.
I'm quite intrigued to see what happens if EBH does move. Anyone see/hear Dan Lloyd's comments on EBH recently? Said he thought the thing with EBH is that he was an extremely early developer, everyone's expectations were tuned up (perhaps) really high - perhaps higher than EBH's natural development pace could satisfy. Lloydy thinks EBH does want to stay, but that Sky have offered him a pay cut - and his agent's playing media games to jack up his price.
But we are likely to see it at the Tour de France again, aren't we?
Garmin seems a little empty with the exception of Dan Martin. Might be a good fit for him?smithy21 wrote:
Sky are only in their 5th year so it's inevitable some of the guys who don't quite get leaders gigs will move on and see what they can do elsewhere but I don't think being part of that setup is wasted. Uran, who has been part of said lead out trains was very complimentary about them when he moved on.
Wise guy. Don't burn your Bridges.
We may - the question is how quickly it breaks down into less of a train and more of a two carriage affair. Personally, I'm not seeing too much so far that shouts 'all aboard the strong choo choo'
As for Uran, well, he was chatted up by a Lefevere offering him 1) a bigger pay cheque, and 2) the chance to be the team's GC leader - and being part of the Tour team.
In the meantime up pops young Kwiatkowski.
As for Garmin, empty in what way? Vaughters has shifted the old guys out, and got guys like Slagter, Dennis, Morton, Navardauskas, as well as Talansky. It's looking pretty perky over at Vaughters Towers, I'd say.0 -
The prolem is the expectations placed on these riders are by us and the media, not by the team themselves. While they will have made mistakes I don't think it's really fair to blame them for failing to meet other people's unrealistic expectations.
It's a pattern repeated throughout sport. Early developing youngster wins loads. Press call him the 'New [insert legend]'. His contemporaries catch up. The press call him a failure and proportion blame.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:The prolem is the expectations placed on these riders are by us and the media, not by the team themselves. While they will have made mistakes I don't think it's really fair to blame them for failing to meet other people's unrealistic expectations.
It's a pattern repeated throughout sport. Early developing youngster wins loads. Press call him the 'New [insert legend]'. His contemporaries catch up. The press call him a failure and proportion blame.
Indeed. Moreno Moser's been hit by similar on the part of the Italian media.0 -
He also has the burden of his name. Nico Roche has said it opens doors and opportuntities but brings unmerited expectation (see also Taylor 'two pro parents' Phinney)Richmond Racer wrote:RichN95 wrote:The prolem is the expectations placed on these riders are by us and the media, not by the team themselves. While they will have made mistakes I don't think it's really fair to blame them for failing to meet other people's unrealistic expectations.
It's a pattern repeated throughout sport. Early developing youngster wins loads. Press call him the 'New [insert legend]'. His contemporaries catch up. The press call him a failure and proportion blame.
Indeed. Moreno Moser's been hit by similar on the part of the Italian media.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:The prolem is the expectations placed on these riders are by us and the media, not by the team themselves. While they will have made mistakes I don't think it's really fair to blame them for failing to meet other people's unrealistic expectations.
It's a pattern repeated throughout sport. Early developing youngster wins loads. Press call him the 'New [insert legend]'. His contemporaries catch up. The press call him a failure and proportion blame.
Fair point if you are talking about EBH. Re team: depends how much you are paying a guy.Contador is the Greatest0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Yellow Peril wrote:frenchfighter wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26.
WOW. I thought he was 30 something.
No, he just currently rides like he is 30 something
He still overated then? Hmm, the old EBH chestnut.
Thing that gets me is EVERY YEAR we have the usual "Thomas, EBH, Kennaugh, Whoever is looking pretty good, should be ready to make the step up and play with the bigger boys soon" Convo's but it never comes to fruition - I know they are still relatively young etc but the progress they are making just isnt leaps and bounds like some of the other youngsters. Maybe Sky is a hinderence for some riders due to lack of opportunities - I don't know, but it is mighty frustrating!
IMO EBH will never win a monument. Ever.
I take your point but I would say Thomas has made the step up and is already playing with them. Catch up on P-R this year, he was at the front of the race from the start of the real action. Stannard has also made the step up. I can never quite work Kennaugh out. I was one who thought he was going to be a superstar and he started showing signs last season but he appears to have dropped off again this season (though that could be down to illness / injury).
My worry with Thomas is that he has said he sees his future as a stage racer but I feel he is much more likely to be a real contender as a Classics rider.
I would add Luke Rowe to the list of Brits to watch, a very good Classics season in a support role and he has a decent sprint from a small group. I don't think anyone has mentioned it already but Ben Swift is looking good this season too.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:RichN95 wrote:The prolem is the expectations placed on these riders are by us and the media, not by the team themselves. While they will have made mistakes I don't think it's really fair to blame them for failing to meet other people's unrealistic expectations.
It's a pattern repeated throughout sport. Early developing youngster wins loads. Press call him the 'New [insert legend]'. His contemporaries catch up. The press call him a failure and proportion blame.
Fair point if you are talking about EBH. Re team: depends how much you are paying a guy.
Not necessarily, it depends on what you are paying him for and EBH in recent years has done a good job in the role I assume he is principally being paid for i.e. riding hard going into the final climb to assist his team leader to win the race. It's much the same as a rider like Renshaw getting paid decent money to lead out Cav. In return you have to sacrifice some of your own chances but you make that choice of money or occasional glory. Again, as we have seen with the likes of Goss and Renshaw sometimes you take your chance for glory and it doesn't pay off.0 -
That's his problem, he's not riding like a 40 somethingYellow Peril wrote:frenchfighter wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:EBH is 26.
WOW. I thought he was 30 something.
No, he just currently rides like he is 30 something0
