Archer Crit (Hillingdon) 26/4

MajorWagonWheel

Did anyone here race the 3/4 on Saturday? Was wondering how the guy who was injured is doing? Serious enough incident/injury to cancel the race. I hope he is OK and the ambulance was precautionary.

jibberjim

Also were there really over 100 in the race?

okgo

The limit is 120 isn't it?

Edit - oh, I think it might be 100? I rode this event last year and there were over 80 starters even then!

tetm

Apparently the guy down took the impact on his elbow and was in shock. Was a hell of a bang he went down with, I saw it from three riders back and managed to get around on the grass. Hope he's healing up.

The field was "limited" to 120, I got number 93 so would have expected there to be over 100.

MajorWagonWheel

I've emailed the organiser to see if it will be re-run or a refund provided. No response yet. Is there a convention for this situation when a race is cancelled?

Pross

MajorWagonWheel wrote:

I've emailed the organiser to see if it will be re-run or a refund provided. No response yet. Is there a convention for this situation when a race is cancelled?

Were you in the race that the crash occurred in or a following race that had to be cancelled? It's unrealistic to expect a refund or the race to be re-run in the first scenario in particular, the race organiser will still have to pay all his costs such as venue hire, levies etc. etc. and sorting out a partial refund would be a logistical nightmare. I've been unfortunate enough to be in that position as an organiser (albeit far more serious), as a club we donated the money left over after costs to a charity nominated by the family of the rider involved.

MajorWagonWheel

I was in the race that was cancelled due to the crash. The following race went ahead and was completed with a lower race distance due to the delayed start. Fair enough for the refund, I can understand that would be a PITA. I'm aware of the situation you refer to Pross. A re-run could be possible - especially on a purpose-built circuit like Hillingdon. Will wait and see what the organiser says.

Hopefully tetm is right and it was just a case of shock and an arm injury rather than more serious.

jibberjim

MajorWagonWheel wrote:

I've emailed the organiser to see if it will be re-run or a refund provided. No response yet. Is there a convention for this situation when a race is cancelled?

no, you would not be expected to get a refund, I'm surprised you asked.

However if there were more than 100 on the circuit, then the situation is a bit different...

ozzzyosborn206

I rode the 1,2,3 event after, I think you are being a bit arsey to expect a refund of what £14? get over it. As for the rider it looked like they were keeping him still and warm but as they stretchered him into the ambulance he was sat upright on the bed to think it can't have been anything more than a broken arm which i heard someone say.

I have ridden Hillingdon twice this year and feel very lucky to have stayed upright throughout both races, especially in the last few laps when it seems 80% of the peloton who have been sat in all day decide they want to start racing. I have done races there before but managed to get in breaks and so not known how bad it is back in the bunch, safe to say I won't be returning there any time soon for another race.

MajorWagonWheel

jibberjim - There is nothing wrong with asking questions. No-one knows everything. There were more than 100 on the circuit but I don't see how this would make a difference to the question poised. Hence, why I asked. In other races (duathlons, marathons, triathlons etc) one would certainly expect a refund or re-run if the event was cancelled. Either would be nice, but clear information is better.

Ozzzyosborn206 - there is nothing arsey about my question. Just asking a question. Nothing to 'get over'. Thanks for your comments about the injured rider. A broken arm is not as serious as it looked, which is good. I too may avoid Hillingdon from now on. Got a good place in my first race there but in a field of less than 80. 100+ did seem too many. Lots of braking required from the whole bunch going down the hill in particular.

jibberjim

MajorWagonWheel wrote:

jibberjim - There is nothing wrong with asking questions. No-one knows everything. There were more than 100 on the circuit but I don't see how this would make a difference to the question poised.

Because the circuit limit is 100, and if the organiser accepted more than 100 entries, then their insurance is questionable and all sorts of problems.

I'm surprised you asked the organiser, when you'd already asked here, organisers are mostly volunteers in cycling, hassling them for questions is what drives them away from the sport which is why there are more than 100 entering what few events are put on.

ugo.santalucia

Is this the race that goes to replace the defunct Archer GP they used to run in the Chilterns?

MajorWagonWheel

Yes - I believe it is the old Archer GP in a new guise. No elites.

jibberjim wrote:

Because the circuit limit is 100, and if the organiser accepted more than 100 entries, then their insurance is questionable and all sorts of problems.

I'm surprised you asked the organiser, when you'd already asked here, organisers are mostly volunteers in cycling, hassling them for questions is what drives them away from the sport which is why there are more than 100 entering what few events are put on.

Fair point, I did not know that about the circuit limit. Good to ask questions, eh?!
I emailed the organiser first, then came on here to ask if anyone knew how the rider who crashed badly was fairing, and ask a discussion point. I thought other forum users may also have raced and perhaps know the guy. I'm also an organiser and regular volunteer in my club. I therefore expect questions.

Your use of the word 'hassling' is just semantics/language. Hassle to you may be a legitimate query to another. I would rather not turn this thread away from the original point. I'm glad the rider seems to have avoided very serious injury. It would have just been nice to know what usually happens in the event of a race cancellation.

charvildave

I was at Hillingdon on the day in question watching my son take part in this race. I think the original question from MWW was about the rider who was hurt and I do remember saying to my son that if it was him lying on the track in pain I would hope that racing would be stopped until he was in the ambulance. Priority to injured riders then and not riders who are deprived of a complete race.

Having said that I think some of the posts on here attacking MajorWagonWheel are unnecessarily rude. The sort of thing that people would not generally say to your face in a pub...

On a wider point this was the fifth race involving Cat 4 riders I have seen at Hillingdon this year and the first one with a serious crash. The race report suggests that it was caused by a tyre blowing out which can happen anywhere.

Finally, I think Hillingdon is better raced in the other direction when the wind is from the south as it was on the day - nobody wanted to lead down the hill into the wind, but everybody was racing up the home straight with the wind behind them. Racing anti clockwise in these conditions tends to stretch the field more because riders have to work up the hill and don't tend to ease off so much on the home straight even though it is into the wind, especially with the number of primes that were on offer on the day!

joe.90

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

I rode the 1,2,3 event after, I think you are being a bit arsey to expect a refund of what £14? get over it. As for the rider it looked like they were keeping him still and warm but as they stretchered him into the ambulance he was sat upright on the bed to think it can't have been anything more than a broken arm which i heard someone say.

I have ridden Hillingdon twice this year and feel very lucky to have stayed upright throughout both races, especially in the last few laps when it seems 80% of the peloton who have been sat in all day decide they want to start racing. I have done races there before but managed to get in breaks and so not known how bad it is back in the bunch, safe to say I won't be returning there any time soon for another race.

aww did you have a bad day?

MajorWagonWheel

charvildave wrote:

I think the original question from MWW was about the rider who was hurt and I do remember saying to my son that if it was him lying on the track in pain I would hope that racing would be stopped until he was in the ambulance. Priority to injured riders then and not riders who are deprived of a complete race.

Having said that I think some of the posts on here attacking MajorWagonWheel are unnecessarily rude. The sort of thing that people would not generally say to your face in a pub...

On a wider point this was the fifth race involving Cat 4 riders I have seen at Hillingdon this year and the first one with a serious crash. The race report suggests that it was caused by a tyre blowing out which can happen anywhere.

Thank you for your comments, I agree 100% Unfortunately, the race report is incorrect. The tyre blow-out was a consequence of the crash, not the cause. The initial cause was an unfortunate coming together of two riders' handlebars and the crash escalated from there.

thiscocks

charvildave wrote:

Finally, I think Hillingdon is better raced in the other direction when the wind is from the south as it was on the day - nobody wanted to lead down the hill into the wind, but everybody was racing up the home straight with the wind behind them. Racing anti clockwise in these conditions tends to stretch the field more because riders have to work up the hill and don't tend to ease off so much on the home straight even though it is into the wind, especially with the number of primes that were on offer on the day!

Agree. I was in the race on the 26th and went down a couple of riders behind the first injured guy. The pace down the hill into the final two rights was slow so everyone bunched up and I was half expecting a crash around there. Unfortunatley you cant really do much to avoid it with a feild of 100+ riders! Think there were 106 signed on... Was too busy to feel comfortable IMO.

mycool

I was right behind the two that got hooked up before one went down. The issue was caused by the bunch catching both lapped riders and those sitting up after contesting the prime the lap before, at the same time. This all happened just at the bottom of the hill and the bunch was still trying to sort themselves out as they came past the clubhouse and into the turn where the crash occured and the sudden decrease in speed was quite abrupt. The two that got together were already leaning on each other long before the corner so a crash was inevitble.

That said despite riding in the top 20-25 all day, I was still waiting for a crash as there was some decidely dodgy riding and it seemed that as the race went on and people got tired it got worse.

With regards to a refund or a race being re-run- the crash happened about 45mins into an 1hr race - in other sports where things get stopped for crashes, e.g. motorsport, if 75% of race distance is done they dont re run although they can declare a result usually taken the lap before the incident. Not workable in cycling as a people save themselves and are not going for it all race and in this case we had 3 neutralised laps before they cancelled it.

ozzzyosborn206

joe.90 wrote:

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

I rode the 1,2,3 event after, I think you are being a bit arsey to expect a refund of what £14? get over it. As for the rider it looked like they were keeping him still and warm but as they stretchered him into the ambulance he was sat upright on the bed to think it can't have been anything more than a broken arm which i heard someone say.

I have ridden Hillingdon twice this year and feel very lucky to have stayed upright throughout both races, especially in the last few laps when it seems 80% of the peloton who have been sat in all day decide they want to start racing. I have done races there before but managed to get in breaks and so not known how bad it is back in the bunch, safe to say I won't be returning there any time soon for another race.

aww did you have a bad day?

Yeah it wasn't a good result but even if i had managed a good result that doesn't take away from the fact of how dangerous the last few laps were, just trying to hold my position I got pushed onto the grass and had to tap about 3 people on the side in corners as people kept chopping in front of me.

Further someone someone said the other way is safer, i disagree with this, it was the other way round when i raced there a few weeks back and thought with the finish being to soon after the last corner is a recipe for disaster, maybe if it was anti clockwise but you moved the finish further down the straight or to the top of the slight drag after the club house it could help?

joe.90

I know what you mean mate, only joking

look496

I know a BC training coach who goes to the Hillingdon races he says the max field is 80! I will ring BC on Tuesday to confirm. and yes I rode there it was not a nice experience.

damocles10

I haven't raced Hillingdon for a long time....I didn't like it much. Seen many crashes on the last straight up to the line, one of which took out the whole team (and about 20 riders) and saw me off on the grass, someone hit a rut on the side and went 90 degrees in to the bunch sprint...ouch...I will never forget the sound. From my experience it's really tough to break away so these crashes happen.

I hope the fella is OK.