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Putin

mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
edited May 2014 in The cake stop
I bet they are regretting closing down all those W.German bases, scraping our armoured divisions and wasting the money on aircraft carriers without planes and telling us the threat to our way of life is from terrorism...oh really?

Once again, Europe's defence will come from the Americans... lets hope!

The Soviets in whatever form they take, will always pose a threat to Europe, its scary times.

Posts

  • CygnusCygnus Posts: 1,879
    The Russians don't need to invade, all they need to do is shut down the gas pipelines and we'll come running to them.
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,433
    Cygnus wrote:
    The Russians don't need to invade, all they need to do is shut down the gas pipelines and we'll come running to them.

    Whilst that might upset the Germans (40% of their gas comes from Russia) it's not an issue for us (7% from Russia), especially with the export capacity of the American LNG terminals coming on line.
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  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,089
    Russia supplies 76% of Europe's gas.

    The biggest issue here is the Russia, USA and GB signed a non proliferation treaty with Ukraine. In exchange for the Ukraine not developing a nuclear arsenal the signatories agreed to respect the independence, sovereignty and borders of the Ukraine. To refrain from threat of force against the territorial sovereignty or political independence of the Ukraine and economic coercion. To assist through the UN security council if there was a breach.

    The breach has occurred and the matter is before the Security Council to resolve the situation with Russia.

    So the 180 plus other signatories to the non proliferation treaty will probably questioning their position.

    The good news is that Nuclear weapons are not in the equation, not that the likelihood of WMD's being deployed in this situation would have been likely however with political upheaval provides uncertainty which is word you don't want to see in the same sentence as nuclear capability.


    Equally the Ukrainians and EU raised Russia's concerns with growing links. Not to expect an adverse reaction to that relationship could be seen as questionable.
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  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    Meanwhile back in Washington D.C.

    obama-golf.jpg
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    V0YbtbI.jpg
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • mamba80 wrote:
    The Soviets in whatever form they take, will always pose a threat to Europe, its scary times.

    Thought I'd logged on to the Daily Mail or Mumsnet website for a minute there...
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  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Figures I've seen are 3% UK and 40% Germany from Russia.
    Ukraine has not much of its own gas and what it does have comes in around the Crimean peninsula. It gets oil and gas from Russia, at favorable prices under the pro-Russian former government. The guys in power then failed to pass on b the cheap prices but pocketed the difference.
    Ukraine had more than it's fair share of the old Soviet nuclear capability. On the dismantling of USSR the west got worried about the nuclear arsenal hence the deal where the Russians took it all back in exchange for the protection pact. IIRC the west, Ukraine and the Russians were quite pleased with the deal. Since then more of.the old.eastern pact countries have become more western leaning indeed joining the west's institutions over the weakened Russian ones. Indeed Russia had a big deal enough problem rescuing it's economy at the time.
    The US led western approach to Ukraine failed in an epic way. Don't think the Ukraine situation has happened without a proxy battle between Russia and US in the background. Even the new Ukraine leaders messed up by putting in new oligarchs into power in the eastern Ukraine. If they'd put a different set of officals in the pro Russian side would have less support. A lot just see the same old situation where the elite prop up each other. The Russian system if you like. The western system is no better but at least we only go in for oil not territory (Afghanistan was arguably about removing sources of terrorism against western interests but what about Somalia, parts of sub-Saharan Africa, etc) I digress.
    Ukraine is a mess like any other place the west or the east has interfered in.
  • mercsportmercsport Posts: 664
    An interesting article in the Guardian today about the Ukraine debacle: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... WEML6619I2
    The comments - as always - entertained too.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,930 Lives Here
    Cygnus wrote:
    The Russians don't need to invade, all they need to do is shut down the gas pipelines and we'll come running to them.

    Hurts the Russians as much as It does everyone else.

    After all, how do they make their money?

    Putin is propped up by a number of super rich elites. Putting the economic squeeze on them will not endear Putin to them - he's mainly there to keep those guys content.

    The economic war will hurt everyone - London especially - but Russia will ultimately lose that one.
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