Handbuilt disc wheels - does this sound ok?

gabriel959
gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
edited May 2014 in Road buying advice
So I am buying a new CX bike and want some good disc wheels for the following:

Road winter training rides
Commutes all year round (barring snow and ice) on the road

I am 6' 4.5" or 195cm and 82kg and have been looking at the following:

Hope Pro Evo 2 Disc front and rear - as I can get a pair for £150.
H Plus Son Archetypes in 32h at the back and 28h at the front laced with Sapim Race at the back and front in silver.

What are your thoughts? Are there any other hubs in the £150 range that you would consider? any other things I should think about?
x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
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Comments

  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    You may want to take a gander at DT350 hubs but they will be just slightly more expensive than Hope.

    Cant see anything wrong with what you have specced though - the Archetypes are great rims. As long as you dont mind the noise that Hope hubs make...
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    DT Swiss disc brakes hubs would be my choice if you have the money. They are simply very good but so are Novatec D711/D712 SB hubs (light too). The best however are shimano XTR M985 think dura ace quality but cheaper somehow and with a centre lock mount - 400g/pair too.

    For hubs in the £150 range there are the Shimano CX-75 but these are 28H only. Still with the archetype rim you will have a stiff and relaible wheel build if you use sapim race or DT comp spokes.

    One cautionary not the front wheel with disc brakes suffers greater loads than the rear when braking so in my opinion do not use a lower spoke count on the front. Remeber disc brake hubs are dished too.

    The archetype rim is a good choice for CX and so are shimano hubs.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Indeed, 32 front and rear for these.
    left the forum March 2023
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    General question then - does the spoking need to be stronger because the braking forces are simply greater from a disc brake rather than a rim brake ?
    Or is it because it's the hub that's being braked rather than the rim so the forces are 'going the other way' up the spoke ?
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Thanks for all the suggestions.

    So no one really recommends the Hope hubs? Interesting, the DT 350 look very good but they are at least £190 and that is above what I had budgeted for, Novatecs are cheaper (at £100 per pair) but are they as good as the Hopes and DT Swiss? I will do 32/32, it is not a big deal, there are only a few grams.

    Also, I meant to say that I am 82kg not 92kg although I am not sure if that will make a difference.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    Plenty of MTBers swear by Hope hubs, so I dont think there is anything wrong with them - other than the noise, which I could not stand.

    Novatecs seem veeery good value for money - I forgot about them but plenty of people using them and seem to be plenty of spares etc. I just like the design of the DT, personally.

    I would have thought 28 be OK for road riding - plenty of CX wheels using that (Kinesis Crosslight for example) and they are designed to take far more abuse. I'd probably spec 32 to be sure for all season wheels, but surely 28 would be OK?
  • Twelly
    Twelly Posts: 1,437
    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=343 - Front
    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=342 - Rear

    I currently have 3 wheelsets with these hubs (including a disc road wheelset) and I can't fault them. The oldest set is 2 years old and they still work as they did on day one. They have now gone to the girlfriends MTB and I bought a new set last year which are now being battered twice a week in all kinds of bogs and swamps on my MTB - still spot on. Last month I had Superstar build me an Alpha 340/Switch Evo wheelset for my new road bike. A couple of MTB mates I ride with are on Hope hubs and yeah they are fine, no problems, same as me. Difference is my hubs didn't cost £150.
  • Barteos
    Barteos Posts: 657
    gabriel959 wrote:
    ...So no one really recommends the Hope hubs?...

    Hope as a brand doesn't have the right roadie image/heritage and the noise is a problem for those who spend a lot of time coasting :wink:

    They would be my obvious choice for a high mileage daily driver. I haven't touched mine for over 20.000 miles of road and off-road use (including numerous stream/flood crossings).
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Hope are good... easy to get spares, easy to replace the bearings, quality free hub, decent geometry
    left the forum March 2023
  • woolwich
    woolwich Posts: 298
    I CX raced on a pair of Hope Pro's last season without issue.
    Then the wheelset got used for Audax, utility use and winter training all the way through the flooding episode. Standing water was a real issue. I popped and re-greased the free hub at one point when it started sticking a little but otherwise all the bearings are fine. Couldn't have asked for more from them.,
    Mud to Mudguards. The Art of framebuilding.
    http://locksidebikes.co.uk/
  • woolwich
    woolwich Posts: 298
    Apologies. Ambiguous post of the day. I meant standing water was a real issue on the roads, NOT for the hubs.
    Mud to Mudguards. The Art of framebuilding.
    http://locksidebikes.co.uk/
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    All very helpful now, I am kind of torn in between the Hopes and the DT Swiss as I had not factored in the skewers for the Hopes so it is pretty much the same money but I have not been able to find the DT Swiss in stock anywhere?
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    While more spokes never hurts a 28 spokes disc brake wheel with CX-75 hubs laced 3x will be fine. Go for 3x lacing over 2x. Nothing wrong with hope hubs and for DT Swiss call a shop :wink:

    Personally I would would either use a DT Swiss hub or a shimano hub like the CX-75. In fact for road bikes the CX-75 fits the bill quite well and I will be putting them on my wife road disc bike (and I am not telling you her weight). I will also be using them on my build later this year and guess what I am 92kg and fairly powerful when I want to be.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Or for something radically different and more hard core...

    D542SB_large.jpg

    Pack a lot of unique technology... I have fitted them on my bike a couple of months back... they are nice hubs that help you keep the momentum when you ride on stones that throw you off cadence. Around 200 quid for the set, BDOP is going to stock them soon. Only downside is, being MTB hubs, there is no 11 speed option at the moment
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Do they no take the Type B1 freehub body if so then a typre B2 11 speed will fit? Also how do they help keep your cadance please explain!
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    While more spokes never hurts a 28 spokes disc brake wheel with CX-75 hubs laced 3x will be fine. Go for 3x lacing over 2x. Nothing wrong with hope hubs and for DT Swiss call a shop :wink:

    Personally I would would either use a DT Swiss hub or a shimano hub like the CX-75. In fact for road bikes the CX-75 fits the bill quite well and I will be putting them on my wife road disc bike (and I am not telling you her weight). I will also be using them on my build later this year and guess what I am 92kg and fairly powerful when I want to be.

    Thanks, as far as I can see with the CX-75s you can only use a 140mm rotor though? The bike comes with 160mm.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    You can fit a 160mm rotor if you like so long as it centrelock. 140mm is a bit small even for CX. I am not sure where the 140mm limit has come from. Maybe it is another of shimano's proclimations. They even have a 29er hub for use with larger (36T cassettes) due to the increased torque these hubs would be under. Of course people have been using XT hub with 11-36T cassette in 29er wheels with no issue. So Shimano's proclimations should be taken with a pinch of salt. The hub will not fall apart with a 160mm rotor.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Do they no take the Type B1 freehub body if so then a typre B2 11 speed will fit? Also how do they help keep your cadance please explain!

    No, the freehub is completely redesigned, it's massive and the 6 pawls sit behind a huge outboard bearing, engaging two teeth each of a 48 toothet ratchet... it's the Godzilla of Freehubs.
    When you hit rocky trails, often the terrain doesn't allow you to pedal with fluidity... a freehub with virtually zero degrees engagement helps you keep the momentum. On the road it makes no difference though
    DSC_2064.JPG
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Makes sense now. That's a proper off road hub.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    just one last thing before I buy the hubs this weekend...

    Will 28/28 be ok as I weigh 82 kg or would you go for 32/32? These are going to go on an steel crosser with the Hayes CX-5 disc brakes.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    gabriel959 wrote:
    just one last thing before I buy the hubs this weekend...

    Will 28/28 be ok as I weigh 82 kg or would you go for 32/32? These are going to go on an steel crosser with the Hayes CX-5 disc brakes.

    Stop scrimping on spokes hoping to get away with it and get some 32. A disc wheel does more work, the spokes are more stressed, you need more of them not fewer.
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    gabriel959 wrote:
    just one last thing before I buy the hubs this weekend...

    Will 28/28 be ok as I weigh 82 kg or would you go for 32/32? These are going to go on an steel crosser with the Hayes CX-5 disc brakes.

    Stop scrimping on spokes hoping to get away with it and get some 32. A disc wheel does more work, the spokes are more stressed, you need more of them not fewer.

    I promise I will stop logging onto the Weight Weenies forum one day. :mrgreen:
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    I mean it...
    On my red bike I have some 24 spokes wheels that I never use, as I prefer the 36 for any sizeable ride, just in case... so I have designated them as "time trialling wheels" and even there they are not particularly faster... 10-20 seconds or so and probably down to the racier tyres...
    You can go for 28 but I can't think of one advantage... I can think of a few drawbacks.. :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    No, I will stick to 32s, I trust your advice. It is only a few grams after all and they are going to be used all weathers and all conditions so better be safe than sorry.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Slight change of plans. I can't afford the Hopes even at the discounted price so I am going to get the Novatec hubs. My local wheel builder hasn't got access to them so went online and could only find them on ebay. I have seen Malcolm from thecycleclinic has got them but they don't come with any stickers and are only in black. There are also some from Taiwanese sellers which come with the stickers and you can even get them in red or white. Are these genuine?
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Slight change of plans. I can't afford the Hopes even at the discounted price so I am going to get the Novatec hubs. My local wheel builder hasn't got access to them so went online and could only find them on ebay. I have seen Malcolm from thecycleclinic has got them but they don't come with any stickers and are only in black. There are also some from Taiwanese sellers which come with the stickers and you can even get them in red or white. Are these genuine?

    Yes... I bought lot of them... there was a guy called "ian" something. Most of them are genuine. Just don't buy the really cheap ones. The right price is around 90 quid
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Slight change of plans. I can't afford the Hopes even at the discounted price so I am going to get the Novatec hubs. My local wheel builder hasn't got access to them so went online and could only find them on ebay. I have seen Malcolm from thecycleclinic has got them but they don't come with any stickers and are only in black. There are also some from Taiwanese sellers which come with the stickers and you can even get them in red or white. Are these genuine?

    Yes... I bought lot of them... there was a guy called "ian" something. Most of them are genuine. Just don't buy the really cheap ones. The right price is around 90 quid

    There is only one guy selling them sokin2011 and they are about £90 including delivery.
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    gabriel959 wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Slight change of plans. I can't afford the Hopes even at the discounted price so I am going to get the Novatec hubs. My local wheel builder hasn't got access to them so went online and could only find them on ebay. I have seen Malcolm from thecycleclinic has got them but they don't come with any stickers and are only in black. There are also some from Taiwanese sellers which come with the stickers and you can even get them in red or white. Are these genuine?

    Yes... I bought lot of them... there was a guy called "ian" something. Most of them are genuine. Just don't buy the really cheap ones. The right price is around 90 quid

    There is only one guy selling them sokin2011 and they are about £90 including delivery.

    I bought some stuff from him years ago... no problems
    left the forum March 2023
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    Bought the hubs today in white, how do you think they will look best on an orange / white bike?

    Silver spokes with Silver Archetypes
    Black spokes with Black Archetypes
    Silver spokes and Black Archetypes

    ??
    x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
    Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
    Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
    Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    gabriel959 wrote:
    Bought the hubs today in white, how do you think they will look best on an orange / white bike?

    Silver spokes with Silver Archetypes
    Black spokes with Black Archetypes
    Silver spokes and Black Archetypes

    ??

    just built a set with white Novatec and silver rims... I think the black ones look best. I prefer silver spokes, but black will look great too.
    Different rims but same hubs
    DSC_2065_zps49a3511d.jpg
    left the forum March 2023