Bike Theft Insurance
Comments
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Carbonator, you don't understand insurance or opportunity cost. "Self insure"? WTF? That's the opposite of insurance.
Oh yeah, and RIDE LONDON! RIDE LONDON 100!0 -
Self insure isn't the opposite of insurance ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:Carbonator, you clearly don't understand insurance, opportunity cost or basic economics. "Self insure"? WTF? That's the opposite of insurance.
I'm insured 3rd party via BC. My bikes are insured against theft (house insurance) - providing their locked "properly" but other than that they are not insured. So if I dropped the bike on that descent this morning and damaged it then it would be down to me to put it right - and if I've purposely put money aside to deal with that then that's "self insure" otherwise it's just an uninsured loss ...
Insurance is a gamble - the insurer gambles that the fees they collect will outweigh the payouts required - meanwhile the insuree gambles the opposite. Whether insurance makes sense or not depends on the individuals perception of risk, the risk and the need to replace or repair the item insured.
For me I only added the bikes to the insurance this year - before then they were uninsured. They're not expensive bikes and I live in a low crime area (I can accidentally leave the house open all day and nothing bad happens) - so any premium I pay for theft insurance needs to be suitably low. I added the bikes to the insurance as it included trips away and we intend to travel more with the bikes this year - the additional premium was <£10 and for me that makes sense as it'll be >10 years of premiums to pay for even the cheapest bike.
Before adding it to the house insurance individual bike insurance quotes were coming in at >£150 - so in a few years I would've paid the cost of the cheaper bikes - so seemed little point with the low risk and minimal coverage.0 -
Slo Mo Jones wrote:Carbonator, you don't understand insurance or opportunity cost. "Self insure"? WTF? That's the opposite of insurance.
Oh yeah, and RIDE LONDON! RIDE LONDON 100!
Are you feeling alright Slo Mo? I think you should lay off the sportives for a while
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Slowbike wrote:
Self insure isn't the opposite of insurance ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:Carbonator, you clearly don't understand insurance, opportunity cost or basic economics. "Self insure"? WTF? That's the opposite of insurance.
...if I dropped the bike on that descent this morning and damaged it then it would be down to me to put it right - and if I've purposely put money aside to deal with that then that's "self insure" otherwise it's just an uninsured loss ...
Wowzers.
That is an uninsured loss - you've lost the money you had put aside. At the end of the episode you've still got a bike but you're £X,000 down. Just because you've shifted it from one bank account to another, or put it under your pillow, it's still your money, and if you use it to replace your bike, it's not yours anymore. Sorry if I'm being too technical for you.0 -
Slo Mo Jones wrote:Slowbike wrote:
Self insure isn't the opposite of insurance ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:Carbonator, you clearly don't understand insurance, opportunity cost or basic economics. "Self insure"? WTF? That's the opposite of insurance.
...if I dropped the bike on that descent this morning and damaged it then it would be down to me to put it right - and if I've purposely put money aside to deal with that then that's "self insure" otherwise it's just an uninsured loss ...
Wowzers.
That is an uninsured loss - you've lost the money you had put aside. At the end of the episode you've still got a bike but you're £X,000 down. Just because you've shifted it from one bank account to another, or put it under your pillow, it's still your money, and if you use it to replace your bike, it's not yours anymore. Sorry if I'm being too technical for you.
http://www.gallagherbassett.com.au/Arti ... fault.aspx
sorry you don't seem to understand basic technical terms .... self insure is hardly a complex issue to grasp ...0 -
sigh... a link to a company selling business insurance solutions. Well done.
go for it mate. And when you've paid your £X,000 from your bank account to replace a damaged bike, you can be safe in the knowledge that the self insuring is going so well.0 -
I could've included so many other links ... it's a simple term - self insure ... it means you carry the risk yourself .. really - not a difficult concept to grasp is it ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:sigh... a link to a company selling business insurance solutions. Well done.
Many of us do already "self insure" - or rather, not insure items ... my bikes are not insured for damage incurred whilst riding and tbh, that's where I perceive the greatest risk to be - but for me, it's not worth the £000's each year to insure them for that, because I would spend out more than I would potentially receive - plus if I did trash even the most expensive bike, it's not essential that it is replaced - it's another easy concept of risk vs cost.Slo Mo Jones wrote:go for it mate. And when you've paid your £X,000 from your bank account to replace a damaged bike, you can be safe in the knowledge that the self insuring is going so well.
iirc, when I first got a road bike I looked at insurance and it was ~£150pa for a £600 bike - so 4 years and I would've essentially paid for the bike again. Well - here we are 4 years later and guess what - I've not crashed/lost/had stolen that bike and the £600 I haven't spent has been used for other things ... I risked not paying £150pa against the probability that I'd not lose the bike - I won...0 -
I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:0 -
Slowbike wrote:
I could've included so many other links ... it's a simple term - self insure ... it means you carry the risk yourself .. really - not a difficult concept to grasp is it ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:sigh... a link to a company selling business insurance solutions. Well done.
Many of us do already "self insure" - or rather, not insure itemsSlo Mo Jones wrote:go for it mate. And when you've paid your £X,000 from your bank account to replace a damaged bike, you can be safe in the knowledge that the self insuring is going so well.
Jurassic Park!0 -
Carbonator wrote:I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:
They probably don't quite comprehend that the £600 I didn't spend on insurance could be used to buy me a much better bike now and the £600 I would've spent on insurance would return <£300 after the insurance co argue that the replacement cost is just that ...
So, I've actually saved £900 .... 0 -
Slo Mo Jones wrote:Slowbike wrote:
I could've included so many other links ... it's a simple term - self insure ... it means you carry the risk yourself .. really - not a difficult concept to grasp is it ...Slo Mo Jones wrote:sigh... a link to a company selling business insurance solutions. Well done.
Many of us do already "self insure" - or rather, not insure itemsSlo Mo Jones wrote:go for it mate. And when you've paid your £X,000 from your bank account to replace a damaged bike, you can be safe in the knowledge that the self insuring is going so well.
Jurassic Park!
You still watching that movie - it's so old ... surely it's not worth the price to see it any more.
Are you actually going to come up with a constructive argument for buying insurance or just resort to petty jibes and inferred insults?0 -
Carbonator wrote:I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:
Wrong again, Martin. I don't have bike insurance. I pay no premiums / premia.0 -
Seems to me a good idea start off in life by saving up some cash, forget about it and use it as your 'self insure'.
Then add every premium to it that you would have otherwise paid out.
It might work out, it might not, but its better to give it a go from a young age. Not much to lose early on, but a lot to gain in later years.
You can of course insure anything in the later years if its a big risk.0 -
Slo Mo Jones wrote:Carbonator wrote:I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:
Wrong again, Martin. I don't have bike insurance. I pay no premiums / premia.
I did not say anything about you Marge, so cannot be wrong about anything you do or do not do.
If I am wrong about your feelings on what I said in the second paragraph................ then you must agree with me
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Slowbike wrote:Carbonator wrote:I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:
They probably don't quite comprehend that the £600 I didn't spend on insurance could be used to buy me a much better bike now and the £600 I would've spent on insurance would return <£300 after the insurance co argue that the replacement cost is just that ...
So, I've actually saved £900 ....
You may have only paid £300 for the £600 bike in a half price sale (or £3-4k for a 6k bike or whatever) in the first place, so insuring it for £600/full replacement cost would be silly anyway.0 -
Carbonator wrote:Slowbike wrote:Carbonator wrote:I think the reason people find it a difficult thing to grasp Slowbike, is that they are at this point in time trapped into paying the premiums and do not like the fact that we, at this point in time, have saved up enough to self insure.
They seem to think that if you get your £600 bike nicked, spending your £600 that you did not give to the insurance co. and could be in premium bonds earning you wins from £25-£1m, is somehow silly compared to having given it to direct line over the last four years :roll:
They probably don't quite comprehend that the £600 I didn't spend on insurance could be used to buy me a much better bike now and the £600 I would've spent on insurance would return <£300 after the insurance co argue that the replacement cost is just that ...
So, I've actually saved £900 ....
You may have only paid £300 for the £600 bike in a half price sale (or £3-4k for a 6k bike or whatever) in the first place, so insuring it for £600/full replacement cost would be silly anyway.
Ah - but what if it was discounted to £600 to start with - replacement cost could be more than the £600 for the first couple of years ... seems like I've saved even more! 0 -
Am confused at how these things work TBH
I thought it was the original list price that they want and that the premium/additional premium is based on?
I would be happy with insuring my £4k bike for £2k if it meant no additional premium but guessing that would be under insured and they would not pay out.
The other bike is £2,200 list price and I paid about £50 for the £200 over the £2k.
Guessing my option is to either keep paying the £50 for it or not have it covered?0 -
Carbonator wrote:Am confused at how these things work TBH
I thought it was the original list price that they want and that the premium/additional premium is based on?
I would be happy with insuring my £4k bike for £2k if it meant no additional premium but guessing that would be under insured and they would not pay out.
No idea ... never went with specific bike insurance ... they're now on the house insurance and don't have to be specified - just each one must be below the prescribed limit which they are.0 -
Mines on the house insurance but two are over the £2k limit (which was reduced from £4k last year
).
One by only £200 which is a pain.0 -
Carbonator wrote:Mines on the house insurance but two are over the £2k limit.
One by only £200 which is a pain.
Take the pedals off ... 0 -
Carbonator wrote:Am confused at how these things work TBH
I thought it was the original list price that they want and that the premium/additional premium is based on?
I would be happy with insuring my £4k bike for £2k if it meant no additional premium but guessing that would be under insured and they would not pay out.
The other bike is £2,200 list price and I paid about £50 for the £200 over the £2k.
Guessing my option is to either keep paying the £50 for it or not have it covered?
That's correct- insurance is based upon RRP. Some insurers will let you underinsure. My last BC policy was for £10k (their limit) on just my Plasma 3 and Wyndy even though the RRP for both was almost double. My reasoning was that I could probably come close to replacing them for about that kind of cash (framesets are the most important parts anyway).
Quite chuffed that my new policy actually cover ALL my bikes for FULL RRP.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
Grill wrote:Carbonator wrote:Am confused at how these things work TBH
I thought it was the original list price that they want and that the premium/additional premium is based on?
I would be happy with insuring my £4k bike for £2k if it meant no additional premium but guessing that would be under insured and they would not pay out.
The other bike is £2,200 list price and I paid about £50 for the £200 over the £2k.
Guessing my option is to either keep paying the £50 for it or not have it covered?
That's correct- insurance is based upon RRP. Some insurers will let you underinsure. My last BC policy was for £10k (their limit) on just my Plasma 3 and Wyndy even though the RRP for both was almost double. My reasoning was that I could probably come close to replacing them for about that kind of cash (framesets are the most important parts anyway).
Quite chuffed that my new policy actually cover ALL my bikes for FULL RRP.
No insurer will let you under insure. Lets make that clear! If you under insure with a low level "open market" insurer like Direct Line then average will be applied to your claim. This means that your claim will be deducted by the percentage that you're under insured by and you will lose out.
So, for example, lets say I had £100,000 of general contents but told the insurer that I only had £50,000 to achieve a saving in premium. I then have a devastating fire and a loss adjuster comes round and immediately sees that there was no way I could furnish my house with just £50,000. I'm under insured by 50% so 50% would be deducted from my settlement which would then be £25,000. I'd be f*cked.
Average doesn't apply to all policies though, only crappy cheap ones. Grill, you're safe as average doesn't apply to yours!
There's also a difference between under insurance and the policies inner limit. If BC will only provide £10,000 of cover per bike, that's not under insurance, that's just their policy.0 -
That £10k was for ALL bikes... English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Oh really? Seems quite low for a policy designed specifically for cyclists.0
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Indeed. They were good when I did claim, so can't complain about that.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
