Knowingly buying fake stuff

Colinthecop

I was doing my usual browsing Ebay for stuff I want but cannot afford and spotting this gorgeous offering,

A Pinerallo Dogma 65.1 Carbon Frame

(clicky pic)



I was shocked to see a buy-it-now for £400 despite it being described as new and just out the box. :shock:

So as my finger hovered over the buy-it-now button thinking about how I could be the envy of all those I overtook, I had another read of the description and spotted this,

For sale is a brand new pinarello replica 2014 model frame size 57.5 the frame has been taken out the box to take pictures that's it.

So the age old saying was true - if it's too good to be true, then it's probably too good to be true. It's not real, it's a fake.

But then I thought about it some more, a new carbon frame for £400 is probably a bargain. I mean, it may even come from the same factory as it's bigger and better cousins, It might even be the same mould or even the same carbon.... I don't know.

So yes it's a fake, but that doesn't bother me.... it still seems like a bargain. I once bought a fake pair of Oakleys from some African man on the beach in the Canaries. That didn't bother me. Admitedly they were shite and broke within 2 days....

Is it a bargain or am I kidding myself....?

Serious Cat

..............................grabbing the popcorn bucket right this minute !!




( psssssssst I saw some Chinese copies by cycling-jong that were just awesome but you take your chances and forget about a warranty.......good luck )

damocles10

Tricky, I personally wouldn't, it might be fine, it could also be fraud or a scam.........given your fake Oakley experience how would you feel if the frame failed causing personal injury. The image above is just a photo and is not necessarily what you will receive.

Moonbiker

Why not just get a carbon frame from px or ribble for the same or less money, unless you want the fashionable brand name ?

mattsaw

I'm all for buying carbon frames from China, there are some great deals to be had if you ignore the doom-mongers that predict it'll shatter into a million pieces when you're on a descent.

I think it's a bit lame getting it made-up to look like a brand though. It's usually obvious to those in the know anyway. I would go down the route of getting your own custom design made up, Baum do some awesome custom paint jobs on their bikes - http://baumcycles.com/paint-personalisation/

Davdandy

Colinthecop wrote:

I once bought a fake pair of Oakleys from some African man on the beach in the Canaries. That didn't bother me. Admitedly they were shite and broke within 2 days....

LMAO

ricky1980

i would ask if he s planning on selling the wheels behind the frameset. If the stuff is genuine, he/she has quite a bit of kit.

personally its a replica, fair games. if you want the bike to look like a pro bike and doesn't mind it being not as techincally advanced then why not.

Its a bit like buying replica jerseys...why do people do that...?

BillyMansell

Colinthecop wrote:

So yes it's a fake, but that doesn't bother me.... it still seems like a bargain.

And you a police officer. Tut tut.

damocles10

Mattsaw wrote:

I'm all for buying carbon frames from China, there are some great deals to be had if you ignore the doom-mongers that predict it'll shatter into a million pieces when you're on a descent.
/

It's the unknown factor, if it's fake there is most likely no warranty and no guarantee there has had sufficient QC checks/processes. There is a risk.

michael_roadie

Knockoffs simply say you care about brand/designer labels but are too poor to afford them, so you're trying to con others into thinking you have actually paid for the label. It's like those who wear those incredibly obviously fake D&G or Armani clothes - if you can't afford the real thing, then buy from a cheaper label. Otherwise you come across as desperate and pathetic. Same for bikes - if you want a cheap chinese frame, then get a cheap chinese frame - but don't get one that pretends to be something it's not.

damocles10

The way I see it, how does the OP know this is fake or legit..I do not trust Ebay.

mattsaw

damocles10 wrote:

Mattsaw wrote:

I'm all for buying carbon frames from China, there are some great deals to be had if you ignore the doom-mongers that predict it'll shatter into a million pieces when you're on a descent.
/

It's the unknown factor, if it's fake there is most likely no warranty and no guarantee there has had sufficient QC checks/processes. There is a risk.

Define fake - it's made in China, as most carbon fibre bikes are, many of the Chinese companies that are dealing online have very good reputations. It's only fake if they badge it as something else.

Of course there is no warranty and aftersales, but if you're that worried buy two, it'll still end up being cheaper than if cost is the issue.

damocles10

True, I didn't initially describe it as fake

Edit: Thinking about it, if a product is described as a Pinerallo Dogma 65.1 Carbon Frame and it is not then, actually, that is a fake. Sure most of our high end components are manufactured in china, I just wonder if the rejects are ebay'd on the cheap.............

slowbike

would the OP buy the frame if it didnt say Pinarello on it and didnt look like the real thing?

its a fake - or stolen... providence unknown ... for a Police Officer to consider buying it that is astounding - but why am I not totally surprised?

Buy genuine - don't buy knockoffs ...

Colinthecop

Slowbike wrote:

for a Police Officer to consider buying it that is astounding - but why am I not totally surprised?

'Cos I'm a lowly paid public servant who has had their pay and conditions eroded by a multitude of Ministers to the extent i'll never be able to afford a real one....?

I'm gonna guess that's your answer.

ravey1981

I just don't understand why anyone would knowingly buy fake stuff. It can only be through a false sense of vanity? For me if I choose to buy anything "high-end" I save for it and when I have it I look after it and treasure it. Buying something cheap that looks like something expensive just seems odd to me, who are you trying to kid? Others or yourself... and why do you care what others think of you anyway...

As for wearing genuine "replica" team kit, I don't myself but I see no problem with that...akin to football fans wearing their favourite team shirt I suppose (not that I give a damn about that sport...)

Mccaria

Is this the one with the BB30 bottom bracket ? What I don't understand is how you can get a monocoque frame out of the same mould as the legit frames but with a different bottom bracket standard ?!

By the way, did you ride the Oakley's down a hill at 40 mph? Surely the QC of a reputable direct Chinese seller or the likes of Planet X is more reliable than a frame of unknown provenance ?

kajjal

The temptation of fakes is understandable given the premiums some brands charge for cheaply produced generic products. The damage from pair of sunglasses failing is a lot less than a bike frame failing when travelling at a good speed.

rolf_f

damocles10 wrote:

True, I didn't initially describe it as fake

Edit: Thinking about it, if a product is described as a Pinerallo Dogma 65.1 Carbon Frame and it is not then, actually, that is a fake. Sure most of our high end components are manufactured in china, I just wonder if the rejects are ebay'd on the cheap.............

The paintjobs are woefully inaccurate on the fakes - unless the rejects are repainted for no obvious reason and ebay'd then the frame in the pic above is no Pinarello.

StillGoing

Colinthecop wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

for a Police Officer to consider buying it that is astounding - but why am I not totally surprised?

'Cos I'm a lowly paid public servant who has had their pay and conditions eroded by a multitude of Ministers to the extent i'll never be able to afford a real one....?

I'm gonna guess that's your answer.

As a thankfully retired Sgt, I have to say I find it startling that you'd seriously consider funding some fraud. I know Winsor has hammered police pay and terms and conditions, but it isn't an excuse. Fraud is fraud wherever committed. There are plenty of framesets out there in carbon fibre with integral cabling for the price being quoted in that ad. If you want one that looks like a Pinarello, buy a legit Chinese frame that hasn't been branded as Pinarello.

Colinthecop

Mccaria wrote:

By the way, did you ride the Oakley's down a hill at 40 mph?

I wore them skydiving.

So it was 32 feet a second when they broke. I couldn't see due to the wind rush and ended up plummeting into the ground without deploying my chute.

For the equivalent of £3.25 I was expecting more.

It didn't stop me buying a second pair mind, bargains like that are hard to pass up, just like when a plumber offers you two prices, one cash and the other with a VAT receipt (just don't tell Slowbike which one I go for).

Colinthecop

philthy3 wrote:

As a thankfully retired Sgt, I have to say I find it startling that you'd seriously consider funding some fraud.

If it's being marketed as a 'replica' where's the Fraud...? He's not saying it a genuine Pinarello.

I appreciate there may be some copyrighted issues on use of the name on the stickers, but I'm struggling to see where the fraud is.

Mccaria

Like it.

On a serious note - if this is the one I saw on ebay that has the BB30 bottom bracket it clearly is not a frame from the Dogma moulds. No point kidding yourself that you are buying a Dogma frame pushed out the back door of the factory.

slowbike

Colinthecop wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

As a thankfully retired Sgt, I have to say I find it startling that you'd seriously consider funding some fraud.

If it's being marketed as a 'replica' where's the Fraud...? He's not saying it a genuine Pinarello.

I appreciate there may be some copyrighted issues on use of the name on the stickers, but I'm struggling to see where the fraud is.

You said the eBay ad was for a pinarello dogma - later on in the detail it says its "fake". Fake and replica are two different things - either way this is being marketed as a fake of the real thing - and that is wrong on so many levels.

Why doesn't it surprise me? Because police or not - you're human and do human things - but the problem with that is you're then expected to nick the bloke in the street for selling fake goods - when you're contemplating supporting them privately. Two faced or what.
Do as the retired sarge suggests.

pinarellokid

A lad I know has bought x3 sky bikes, the first was ace but green colour scheme
He sold it and has since bought x2 blue ones that have been rubbish cracked BB repaired, then broke again replacement sent from China at a cost of £350 and that cracked at the rear stays

I wouldn't take the chance, personally I'd love to be able to bang the frame on someone's counter and face to face tell them it's crap,, china is a long way to go and complain

Stevie_gee

That '2014' frame has movistar on the seat stay.

Movistar are riding Canyons this year.

Buy a proper bike.

dennisn

Buying a fake or a real one won't make much difference. Sounds like you're only in to showoff / bling so doing much actual riding is most likely not an issue. If you're simply going to strut about on it then go for it.

StillGoing

Colinthecop wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

As a thankfully retired Sgt, I have to say I find it startling that you'd seriously consider funding some fraud.

If it's being marketed as a 'replica' where's the Fraud...? He's not saying it a genuine Pinarello.

I appreciate there may be some copyrighted issues on use of the name on the stickers, but I'm struggling to see where the fraud is.

With it having "Pinarello" decals on it, it is a fake. I don't recall any statement by Pinarello that they were sanctioning a run of replicas so it is tangible copyright theft. The seller is merely saying replica in the small print to avoid having to give a refund or have their account frozen and is hoping buyers are not as observant as you in spotting it. They've put the temptation there with a "Pinarello" frameset at a price some are going to find irresistible and are just waiting for the money to roll in.

From your job you know that fraud more often than not doesn't just fund a lifestyle for someone. It creates the funds for other areas of crime such as drug propagation and smuggling, gun running and terrorism. By supporting it you're funding criminality. There'd be no difference between you and the bloke who buys an X Box off a man down the pub for much less than market value. He knows it's not legit and so do you. Buying that frameset would land you in a world of trouble with your employers too. Someone will be on the snitch line to your PSD questioning your ethics and morality. Avoid.

me-109

I work in a compliance and governance team. Sometimes, having to be such a 'goody' is a pain, at least an inconvenience, but as above you need to be seen to be doing all the right things and none of the wrong ones. Perhaps it does improve one's moral and ethical stance on other issues as well.

I have a Dilbert cartoon somewhere that goes along the lines of {Boss to Dilbert} "I haven't got time to attend the course on ethics, but is it ok if I say I did?"

Personally I wouldn't spend £400 on something on eBay with no real comeback available. That goes above any consideration of whether or not it is being passed off either as a copy (you know it to be fake) or as genuine (unknowingly bought a fake).

navrig2

It's got the World Champions stripes on it therefore you can't ride it.

Simples.

paultheparaglider

Serious Cat wrote:

..............................grabbing the popcorn bucket right this minute !!

Me too. Just because it has the name on the tin, doesn't mean it is real. Can apply to usernames too. Although, in my particular case, I really do fly paragliders.