hope I can report this tool to the police

2456

Comments

  • hibster
    hibster Posts: 58
    philthy3 wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Fcuk, did not realise it was that big a vehicle from the still photo :shock:

    Hope someone can get the number plate. The company should be able to work out who it was now that you know who they are.

    I would send the clip to the BBC too.

    The driver should be done for attempted murder IMO.
    Would be quite nice if he just lost his job though I guess.

    :roll:

    well assault is the apprehension of imminent harm, definitely got that

    murder is the unlawful killing of a human in times of peace
    this has been in the news with the friend of the pavement cyclist killing that bloke with asperger's where taking the victim as you find them seems to have been disregarded, but you have to know that if you hit someone with a truck there is a very real risk of killing them - they'd be lucky to survive - no taking the victim as you find them here!

    the mens rea & actus rea (intent & action) are both there really as any contact could easily be fatal

    i don't see that it is that fanciful to try them for that
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    The driver was very lucky that the cyclist held it together with a pass that close. He couldn't judge the width of a wagon that precisely - all it would have taken would be for a gust of wind or the tiniest deviation from his line and the cyclist would be dead.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    jthef wrote:
    The video
    http://youtu.be/XlHQXLI8iiM
    sorry about the swearing.

    Christ on a bike! My life flashed before my eyes just watching that, I'm surprised you didn't have a heart attack!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I think I can see why the OP was treated this way ... there's a shared use path to the left - I would hazard a guess that the driver (keeping it polite) believed the cyclist (OP) should've been using that facility rather than riding on the road.

    Twice in the last 3 months I've been shouted at by ppl in cars that I should be on the (adjoining) cyclepath ... the problem is, at 20mph riders really shouldn't be on the cyclepath and in many cases the cyclepath doesn't go far enough or the right way to be of much use.

    It seems quite a few drivers really do need re-educating in road etiquette ... others just need to be shot - they wouldn't do it again!
  • rokt
    rokt Posts: 493
    That is shocking....this fool shouldn't be on the road.

    Please keep us upto date with this, it looks like it could run for some time.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    edited March 2014
    Slowbike wrote:
    I think I can see why the OP was treated this way ... there's a shared use path to the left - I would hazard a guess that the driver (keeping it polite) believed the cyclist (OP) should've been using that facility rather than riding on the road.

    Yes, I was going to post that I think that was the reason behind his aggression. Should not need to point out of course that the OP was within his rights to use the road.

    Having looked at the slo-mo bit of the video, I'd say that constitutes Dangerous Driving i.e. when the standard falls well below what you would expect. I hope the driver is prosecuted and convicted.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Slowbike wrote:
    I think I can see why the OP was treated this way ...

    You can see why the driver tried to kill, maim or injure the OP..??
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Imposter wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    I think I can see why the OP was treated this way ...

    You can see why the driver tried to kill, maim or injure the OP..??

    I can't speak for Slowbike but he wasn't trying to justify it, just working out why the lorry driver acted in this way. If you need to understand motives as well as actions.
  • Shaun67
    Shaun67 Posts: 219
    Hell, that's bad, very bad.

    I'd be very tempted to post a copy of this video to the Caravan Club, they are always going on about cycling when caravaning. The Forest of Dean Caravans is quite a large company and a lot of caravan type people know of them, give them some bad publicity it may help with punishing this idiot.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    I can't speak for Slowbike but he wasn't trying to justify it, just working out why the lorry driver acted in this way. If you need to understand motives as well as actions.

    That's not helping. There is absolutely nothing which can possibly justify that kind of driving.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    "he wasn't trying to justify it"

    There is a big difference between understanding the cause and reaction and it being justified.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    BTW has nobody noticed yet that the date on the title is wrong, should be March 2014 not 2013! Hope the OP can fix it!
  • Hurricane Warrior
    Hurricane Warrior Posts: 147
    I saw this on twitter by Carlton Reed and that was digustingly dangerously close, but sad to say you see people being killed on the road by careless drivers and get hardly any punishment at all when they have just taken a life :(
    Jamis Xenith Endura Sport 2012
    Boardman Race 2013
    Genesis Equilibrium 2014 (Built myself)
    Boardman Comp MTB 2016
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Imposter wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    I think I can see why the OP was treated this way ...

    You can see why the driver tried to kill, maim or injure the OP..??

    No - I can't see why - I can make an educated guess - it doesn't make his actions acceptable if I'm right or wrong. If I am right then it's an unintended consequence of adding cyclepaths to the infrastructure - as some drivers believe you should be using the provided infrastructure without regard for appropriateness or even the requirement to do so.

    Do they have a point? Should we be using cyclepaths where they exist?
    There is one path on my commute that I could use - going to work it's on the wrong side of the road so I'd have to cross the road twice to use it. It's shared use so I shouldn't ride too fast down it - which is a problem on the return as I regularly exceed 20mph on that section. It's state of repair isn't particularly good either - tree routes have lifted the tarmac.
    The whole section is much less than 1 mile (out of an 11 mile commute) so it has little impact on road use - and the section it covers has plenty of opportunity for drivers to overtake a cyclist anyway.
    I do use the path - when social riding with my wife or taking family or the other evening when it was just too gusty and I wanted to get off the road and slow down.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    It's hit reddit now http://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comme ... ever_seen/ which means it will have kind of gone global!
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    Don't cycle paths/shared-use paths have an advisory 18mph limit?
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • rokt
    rokt Posts: 493
    It's just a shame Forest of Dean Caravans don't have a Facebook page !
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Mattsaw wrote:
    Don't cycle paths/shared-use paths have an advisory 18mph limit?

    I've never heard of a number being put on it, certainly in many cases 18mph would be high.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    Don't cycle paths/shared-use paths have an advisory 18mph limit?

    I've never heard of a number being put on it, certainly in many cases 18mph would be high.

    quote from the CTC forum on the same subject:
    The only real "official figure" is the DfT guidelines which state that "above 18 mph you should consider using the road"
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    That certainly sounds about right to me, and much of the time on a flat road like the one pictured the rider would be doing above that speed.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    Don't cycle paths/shared-use paths have an advisory 18mph limit?

    I've never heard of a number being put on it, certainly in many cases 18mph would be high.

    DfT advises the 18mph figure.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    edited March 2014
    Imposter wrote:
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    I can't speak for Slowbike but he wasn't trying to justify it, just working out why the lorry driver acted in this way. If you need to understand motives as well as actions.

    That's not helping. There is absolutely nothing which can possibly justify that kind of driving.
    You're missing the point.
    No one here has said the driver's actions can be justified.
    Justified or not he did it.
    We don't know why.

    4 Possibilities:
    1. Driver is psychotic and/or homicidal
    2. Driver is a fool who thought this was funny and perhaps didn't realise how dangerous it was
    3. Driver was responding completely inappropriately to some perceived wrongdoing
    4. Driver didn't see the cyclist (blew horn so not credible)

    Numbers 2 & 3 seem most likely to me.
    I don't know how you deal with number 2. Some people are just too reckless/idiotic/childish to educate or reason with.
    I suspect number 3 is the most common. Motorists see someone in their way, they get frustrated, they perceive some wrongdoing by the person inconveniencing them and they get angry. In some ways driving is like using an internet forum. Most people feel somewhat anonymous, insulated from danger and consequences and they treat people in a way they wouldn't if they were standing face to face. Obviously, the reality is that motor vehicles are potentially lethal but drivers often seem to subconsciously "forget" this even though they consciously know it.
    I think it's fair to assume that as long as people drive cars manually there'll be people who respond inappropriately and dangerously to perceived wrongdoing by others. The most effective solution is to remove as many potential triggers as possible. How can you do that if you don't know what they are?

    So that's a long way of saying: It is relevant that we consider why this guy did what he did even though it does not in any way justify his actions.

    I've had drivers shout at me because I was not cycling on bike paths. I have very good reasons not to use some specific bike paths in local residential areas but the motorists don't realise that. They see me holding them up and what they perceive as a perfectly good path sitting right there. From their point of view I'm the a$$hole. I can understand that. Under those circumstances I'd think I was an a$$hole too. The problem is ignorance and a lack of communication. Drivers don't understand why cyclists do some of the things we do. They get angry. Annoy enough motorists and every so often one of them will do something very stupid and dangerous like the guy in this video.

    Diffuse the anger and we reduce the risk to cyclists.
    We need better education of non-cycling motorists so they understand the actions of cyclists that currently enrage them. We'll still have idiots and homicidal maniacs but hopefully fewer of them will be triggered to act like this.
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    Cheers, I didn't think I had imagined it.

    Any yes it seems high, obviously you still need to moderate your speed if people are around.

    And yes that's a shocking pass. I'm not sure I would advocate public shaming of the company (yet) while business obviously have a responsibility of ensuring their drivers aren't homicidal maniacs I'm never 100% comfortable with social media witchunts.

    Hopefully they'll make the best of a bad situation, get rid of the driver concerned and make it crystal clear that all of their other drivers will receive further training
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Too late, the name of the company has been widely reported already.
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Too late, the name of the company has been widely reported already.

    Yup, one the genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back in.

    As I said, their best course of action would be to take swift action, distance themselves from the driver and take action making sure their other drivers are trained properly. It's the only way they could salvage any credibility of of this.

    Having said that, the best course of action would be to make sure their drivers were properly trained in the first place
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I've just seen a tweet that their Transport Manager is aware of the clip and is looking into it.
    I'm sure their drivers are all trained perfectly well - its just that one of them took exception to a cyclist being on 'his' road. He needs sacking.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    cougie wrote:
    I've just seen a tweet that their Transport Manager is aware of the clip and is looking into it.
    .

    Can you share the link? I'm not familiar with the strange ways of the twitter.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    I've just seen a tweet that their Transport Manager is aware of the clip and is looking into it.
    .

    Can you share the link? I'm not familiar with the strange ways of the twitter.

    Bottom of this page http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/aa-use ... ign/016117
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Thanks!

    "UPDATE: Mark Turley, transport manager at Forest Of Dean Caravan, has seen the video and said he's "horrified" and will take disciplinary action when the driver returns, as well as co-operate with any police enquiry."
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Thanks!

    "UPDATE: Mark Turley, transport manager at Forest Of Dean Caravan, has seen the video and said he's "horrified" and will take disciplinary action when the driver returns, as well as co-operate with any police enquiry."

    Excellent ...

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