Two Cyclists killed Purley

neal1984

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-26184164

Moonbiker

More detailed info:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... paign=1490

What is a fear of welfare call? :?

slowbike

Ah - so the BMW wasn't a police vehicle - phew! For a while the information was so vague that it sounded like a Police vehicle had hit and killed two cyclists - I'm glad that isn't the case!

Perhaps the driver could be charged with Manslaughter? It's about time dangerous drivers were held to account for taking the lives of others.

neal1984

I think death by dangerous driving is the most we can expect unless he delibiratly hit them.

Druidor

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2014/name ... ed-locally

R.I.P

GiantMike

Neal1984 wrote:

I think death by dangerous driving is the most we can expect unless he delibiratly hit them.

Arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

flasher

The guy will still probably get off with a slapped wrist and loss of licence for a year, until they get sent down for a proper period of time, there's no reason for most drivers to care about cyclists!

Father Faff

I'm not sure the cops should be indulging in car chases - too many of them end in accidents like this.

Frank Wilson

I never knew til today catching up with some reading that the BTCC driver Frank Wrathall is now in jail for killing a cyclist.

nunowoolmez

What is a fear of welfare call?

Could be anything from someone possibly making an attempt on their own life, or credible information from a source suggesting that serious harm might come to someone. Officers would need to check on the welfare of occupants of a residence to see if they are ok, alive & well, that sort of thing. In this instance it appears that a car was involved which brings another element into it, maybe someone they had recieved information about. Clearly the local police can't divulve info about this. Just sad that it has ended in this way. Police chases are necesarry sometimes if crimes are to be prevented & criminals brought before the courts...

damocles10

Been through Purley many times and it is a disaster waiting to happen for cyclists, narrow roads, weird junctions and too much traffic.

Sorry to hear about the loss of life. RIP

neal1984

Father Faff wrote:

I'm not sure the cops should be indulging in car chases - too many of them end in accidents like this.

If they never pursued criminals then people would just drive away knowing they are unlikely to ever be caught. They obviously need to make a judgment call on if it is safe to continue however this is subjective to the officer conducting the chase. Unfortunately they won’t always make the right decision and hindsight is a wonderful thing but without knowing the full details of this incident we should not pass judgement.

Mikey23

I think every police car chase has to be authorised and will be called off if there is unnecessary risk to the target and to the public at large... Unfortunately this means that some rissoles get away with it...

StillGoing

Forces differ in policy, but, a follow can normally be initiated by any driver with a standard authority. If the Control Room Inspector deems it appropriate they will allow the pursuit to continue based on traffic density, the time it will take an Advanced driver to take over the pursuit, weather conditions and the crime being apprehended amongst other things. The pursuing driver can also make a judgement call as to whether to abort the follow. A follow is different to a pursuit. A follow does not involve excessive speed or the use of blues and twos and is merely following the target vehicle for observations until it is safe to attempt to stop it. Generally only an Advanced driver can initiate a pursuit. An Advanced driver is trained to have advanced observations and driving skills that allow them to recognise choke points on the route where they would drop back in an effort to slow the fleeing driver down and create a little more safety until the danger point is cleared. Once clear they will close the gap looking for opportunities to bring the pursuit to a safe halt either through setting up a stop-stick site ahead of the target vehicle, T-Pac if the road is big enough to permit it or an enforced stop if authorised by a senior commander. If at any time the Control Room Inspector believes the pursuit is endangering life, they will instruct the pursuing vehicle to terminate the pursuit. If the identity of the driver becomes known and the offence they are being pursued for is not serious or important evidence is not going to be lost, the pursuit will be aborted irrespective of whether they is any danger to life.

bendertherobot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-26230039

Accused named. Worth googling his name. Quite unique.

Mikey23

@p3 .. Thanks for that detailed explanation. So cops do not 'indulge in car chases' but yet again let's not let the facts get in the way...

FransJacques

He should be deported back to Russia. The US does this all the time, but since he has a pet cat, he has a right to family life.

God I sound like someone commenting on the daily mail site.

Pross

FransJacques wrote:

He should be deported back to Russia. The US does this all the time, but since he has a pet cat, he has a right to family life.

God I sound like someone commenting on the daily mail site.

What am I missing here? The driver doesn't appear to be Russian :?

Pross

Flasher wrote:

The guy will still probably get off with a slapped wrist and loss of licence for a year, until they get sent down for a proper period of time, there's no reason for most drivers to care about cyclists!

Sentencing guidelines for causing death by dangerous driving https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/

So providing he actually gets prosecuted and found guilty of that offence he definitely won't be getting a 12 month ban and a slapped wrist.

Someone else said he should be charged with manslaughter - not only would that potentially be harder to prove it is far from certain he would get a longer sentence. Have a look at this example of manslaughter cases involving a motor vehicle http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/involuntary_manslaughter/

FransJacques

He was found in a Russian orphinage and sponsored/fostered by a priest in the UK, from what I read.

Shows you clerics are not alway great foster parents despite what the public stereotype of them being very 'moral' and showing 'ethical leadership', or whatever traits people stick on the clergy.

By contrast the US dumped this poor man back in Cambodia despite not even being born there, only his parents were. But the courts there wear the trousers, not the criminals: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24923096

Why doesn't the UK grant conditional citizenships with a 3 strikes and you're on EasyJet flight 3286 back to country of origin? (now I'm really going daily mail)

Mikey23

FransJacques wrote:

He was found in a Russian orphinage and sponsored/fostered by a priest in the UK, from what I read.

Shows you clerics are not alway great foster parents despite what the public stereotype of them being very 'moral' and showing 'ethical leadership', or whatever traits people stick on the clergy.

I'm not sure that's a very balanced and productive comment to make. Were mr and mrs Hitler ultimately responsible for how their boy turned out?

slam that stem

Yes, of course they were. Them or the art teacher who told him he was crap.

I think the point was that despite being fostered by a priest, that didn't stop this fellow having numerous run ins with the police. Fraud, fake cheques, unrealistic lifestyle asperations, fake bomb threats, then murdering 2 cyclists in cold blood. Not the rap sheet you'd expect from a clergyman's 'son'...

bendertherobot

Pross wrote:

Flasher wrote:

The guy will still probably get off with a slapped wrist and loss of licence for a year, until they get sent down for a proper period of time, there's no reason for most drivers to care about cyclists!

Sentencing guidelines for causing death by dangerous driving https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/

So providing he actually gets prosecuted and found guilty of that offence he definitely won't be getting a 12 month ban and a slapped wrist.

Someone else said he should be charged with manslaughter - not only would that potentially be harder to prove it is far from certain he would get a longer sentence. Have a look at this example of manslaughter cases involving a motor vehicle http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/involuntary_manslaughter/

I suspect this will be one of the longer sentences, depending on credit for early guilty plea. Hopefully in excess of 12 years.

damocles10

Not justifying what he has done, for some, once they are involved in criminal activity and convicted it's a downward spiral, when there is no hope there's no care. I don't know this individual so can't comment on his approach towards ethics or morality. Actions will be played out in court.

When all the facts are heard in court and if he is proven guilty it should be porridge time. I hope the families of the cyclists get the justice they deserve.

tootsie323

slam that stem wrote:

... murdering 2 cyclists in cold blood...

... really?

StillGoing

slam that stem wrote:

............. then murdering 2 cyclists in cold blood. Not the rap sheet you'd expect from a clergyman's 'son'...

Nothing like an ill informed over-reaction there then. For it to be murder you would have to prove he went out with the intention of killing. Driving his car dangerously is not enough to prove an intention to kill someone. Plenty of criminals and people with convictions come from stable backgrounds. For some it's an act of rebelling against society and what their parents stand for. Bank managers, teachers, the clergy, police officers, the judiciary, the military etc etc have all had examples of their offspring turning to crime as a means of expressing themselves. Crime isn't reserved for the less fortunate in life.

Mikey23

Careful ... Posts like this might challenge small minded petty prejudice. But then it probably won't ...

flasher

bendertherobot wrote:

Pross wrote:

Flasher wrote:

The guy will still probably get off with a slapped wrist and loss of licence for a year, until they get sent down for a proper period of time, there's no reason for most drivers to care about cyclists!

Sentencing guidelines for causing death by dangerous driving https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/

So providing he actually gets prosecuted and found guilty of that offence he definitely won't be getting a 12 month ban and a slapped wrist.

Someone else said he should be charged with manslaughter - not only would that potentially be harder to prove it is far from certain he would get a longer sentence. Have a look at this example of manslaughter cases involving a motor vehicle http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/involuntary_manslaughter/

I suspect this will be one of the longer sentences, depending on credit for early guilty plea. Hopefully in excess of 12 years.

We'll see.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... work-55680

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-24240127

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/425302 ... -to-satnav

bendertherobot

Flasher wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Pross wrote:

Flasher wrote:

The guy will still probably get off with a slapped wrist and loss of licence for a year, until they get sent down for a proper period of time, there's no reason for most drivers to care about cyclists!

Sentencing guidelines for causing death by dangerous driving https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/

So providing he actually gets prosecuted and found guilty of that offence he definitely won't be getting a 12 month ban and a slapped wrist.

Someone else said he should be charged with manslaughter - not only would that potentially be harder to prove it is far from certain he would get a longer sentence. Have a look at this example of manslaughter cases involving a motor vehicle http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/involuntary_manslaughter/

I suspect this will be one of the longer sentences, depending on credit for early guilty plea. Hopefully in excess of 12 years.

We'll see.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... work-55680

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-24240127

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/425302 ... -to-satnav

http://justice4rossandclare.com