Anyone using new Ultegra Di2?

nicholsonsimon
nicholsonsimon Posts: 44
edited January 2014 in Road general
Is anyone using this groupset yet? I am thinking of changing to Dura Ace 9000 mechanical, or new Ultegra electric. Does anyone have any feedback on either groupset? I currently use DA 7900. Cheers.

Comments

  • If your 7900 is ok I'd stick with it.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Thanks for the info so far. The group is going on a new build, titanium frame, which is going to be set up for electrical, and I'd be going for an internal battery. At the end of the day I think I want hassle/maintenance free, so whichever will provide that, will be the one.
  • Ok cheers for that Luke, by maintenance free I meant adjustments etc, I'm pretty strict with looking after and keeping everything clean. I wouldn't want wires rattling free to be a problem out in the middle of nowhere, so at the minute, 9000 mechanical is looking favourable.
    One other thing, as you seem to work on bikes, I've just bought a pair of ffwd f2r carbon tubulars with dt Swiss 240 hubs, have you had any experience with them? My riding in Northumberland is all hilly, at the minute I use Lightweight standard 2's, but in a side wind they're a bit blowy. I thought the Ffwds might be better and I read good things about those hubs. Cheers.
  • TakeTurns
    TakeTurns Posts: 1,075
    Certainly worth the upgrade. Even the 6800 is way better than 7900.
    As for the FFWD's, they're fantastic. I had F6R's and they were reassuringly stable.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    I've just swapped from 7900 to 6800 on a bike and it's a damn sight better, after picking the shifters and mechs up for £235 from Merlin it was more than a steal, I was looking at 9000 but from what I'd been told it wasn't worth the extra cash and now I've got £300 to play with too.

    I still don't know what the little but of black plastic was for on the FD though.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    For that you want mechanical. We've seen a couple of cases of cables coming disconnected either under the bar tape or inside the frame, which is a minor PITA if you're in a workshop with a full shelf of tools, and a major PITA if you're by the side of the road miles from the nearest shop. Not to mention having to charge the battery once in a while.

    Every time someone mentions Di2 the same old bollocks get rattled out. The reality is that you are far more likely to break a cable on your mechanicals than have a wiring problem with your Di2. You will also have to index your mechanicals as your cables stretch, you won't have to ever adjust your Di2. Reading the moans above, you would think it was a wonder that Team Sky ever finish a race.

    I must admit, battery charging is a PITA. I have to charge my mobile phone every night and this is one of the worst bits about my whole life at the moment. Now I have to charge my bike up for an hour every three months as well, I am considering running a bath and slashing my wrists... I just can't take it any more. :roll:
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • Surely loose cables under the bar tape is a problem with the install, not a di2 problem? Or am I being ignorant? :?
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    But thanks for the sarcy response mate. Then again, you're allowed to be ignorant on a forum, no shame in that.

    If you post utter rubbish then you should expect people to challenge it. That's how forums work. The vast spread of knowledge means it is very difficult for one person to spout bollocks and it be accepted as the truth.

    The fact, as demonstrated by the many, many Di2 users on here, is that it is completely reliably. That most users have factory installations makes the incidence of bad connections even less likely than badly indexed mechanicals. If you have loads of people coming back with bad connections, whoever has been fitting it needs a talking to!

    I don't doubt that you are telling the truth. It is entirely possible that Cambridge is a hot spot for Di2 failures.

    It's not you fitting it, is it?
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    I use Di2 - replaced the mechanical Ultegra with an aftermarket full Ultegra Di2 setup just under 2 years ago. It's a toy, one of the best toys ever invented in World Of Cycle, and I've loved every minute of it bar the occasions when I had issues with it. In my instance it seemed to take a dislike to being out in very cold very wet weather; doing that caused the battery to discharge very rapidly. My dealer tells me they've never seen that on any other setup they've done, but it seems to be resolved now anyway. Simple answer is not to use the nice bike with Di2 on dirty grimy close to freezing days and use the winter hack instead. That seems to be what normal people do anyway - don't use your best bike with the most expensive bits in sh!te weather. I've never heard of anyone else having the problem I saw though.

    Observations: battery life is immense. I went from installation in early March to the end of May on one charge. I have to charge my phone once a week or so, and the iPad every day. The bike gears need charging when the moon is blue; it's just not an issue.

    Gear changes are slicker than slick can be, and require virtually no effort. It's easy to slip into exaggeration mode and describe changes as telepathic, which is nuts obviously but it's not far off. Changes are always bang on - instant, crisp, perfect. You either hit it or if you miss the switch or don't quite think hard enough to make the change ( :) ) nothing happens. Gear changes when stomping up a hill always work first time without the chain jumping over the cogs or falling down between ring & frame. The self-trimming is neat when the chain line steps over to where you'd normally do a manual trim - Di2 looks after that for you.

    Since building the winter hack with the spare Ultegra mechanical gears on it the biggest difference difference I've noticed is the amount of lever movement to effect a gear change. Granted it's not much for either (mech or Di2) but after 18 months of gear change by thought transference, the long push on the lever to shift the mech far enough to drop up or down a gear is noticeable. It's not life-changing, nothing is on a bike, but if you ask me do I want a slight flex or a long push of the finger to change gear, I know which I prefer.

    Indexing Di2 generally doesn't need to be done as there's no cables to stretch, but you might swap wheels occasionally or just want to do it for the fun of it. You can do that on a workstand, with OH holding the back wheel off the ground or when you're ambling along on it at a steady pace - indexing on the move is easy, and satisfying. So is the noise the front mech makes on change or when self-trimming. The rear mech is almost silent; not sure why the difference.

    Installation is best done by people who know what they're doing as there are a few gotchas to watch out for but once it's on it's easy to look after. I've never broken a gear cable (I don't think), can index mechanical gears in the time it takes to drink a cup of tea but would still plump for Di2 on the next bike. I love them, the whole ease of use, always perfect gear change, changing on a climb, the knowledge that gear changes just happen; it's neat.

    I accept that for some people everything about cycling became perfect at some point in the past, whether that was 1976, 1985, 1992 or whenever, and that any changes from that peak are pointless and unnecessary. That's a fair view; my view is that toys like bike computers, Garmin, Di2 all add to the fun. If you fancy electric gears, go for it. The chances of you being disappointed or regretting it are slim, and if the only downside is that some people on the internet don't get it or just plain dislike this sort of thing, that's not your problem.
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    ^^this^^

    I've got 7970 (10-speed DA di2) on my best bike; installed it myself after watching the Shimano training video and have had zero problems since in more than 1000km in all weathers. I've charged it once.

    I've got mechanical 6800 coming on my new hack tomorrow (hopefully!) so I'll report back, but for me the main differences between di2 and mechanical are the ability to shift flawlessly under load, and the reliability of the front shift.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    At the risk of upsetting Bar Shaker, I only know (personally) one rider who raced on Di2. He gave up on it and is now enjoying reliable shifting once again, on a mechanical group. He no longer drives to races worrying about whether his gears will work when he gets there.
  • rafletcher
    rafletcher Posts: 1,235
    CiB wrote:
    Gear changes are slicker than slick can be, and require virtually no effort. It's easy to slip into exaggeration mode and describe changes as telepathic, which is nuts obviously but it's not far off. Changes are always bang on - instant, crisp, perfect. You either hit it or if you miss the switch or don't quite think hard enough to make the change ( :) ) nothing happens. .

    Out of interest do you think you could change reliably wearing full fingered gloves?
  • Ricey83
    Ricey83 Posts: 103
    I remember Wiggo having a Di2 failure during a climb in last years Giro...
    Bar Shaker wrote:


    Nope. No it is not. Team Sky have had Di2 failures, hence why a lot of the team have gone back to mechanical. The point about cable stretch is not even a point. Yes, you do have to give it a 2 minute service after 100 miles, then forget about it for the next 20,000 miles. I'm not bashing Di2, it's all great stuff, but for what the OP is after, and for my own personal tastes I prefer mechanical.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    rafletcher wrote:
    CiB wrote:
    Gear changes are slicker than slick can be, and require virtually no effort. It's easy to slip into exaggeration mode and describe changes as telepathic, which is nuts obviously but it's not far off. Changes are always bang on - instant, crisp, perfect. You either hit it or if you miss the switch or don't quite think hard enough to make the change ( :) ) nothing happens. .

    Out of interest do you think you could change reliably wearing full fingered gloves?
    Yes. I can and do, no issue with it.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    Nope. No it is not. Team Sky have had Di2 failures, hence why a lot of the team have gone back to mechanical.

    Just not true, either the 'lot' of failures or the going back to mechanical. Wiggo had a famous failure where he parked his bike 20m away but that is the only one I can remember. Feel free to back up your statement with facts. The stuff is ultra reliable, no matter what you and other disbelievers want to believe.
    The point about cable stretch is not even a point. Yes, you do have to give it a 2 minute service after 100 miles, then forget about it for the next 20,000 miles.

    I agree, it was said for effect. Neither is charging your Di2 battery a point.
    I'm not bashing Di2, it's all great stuff, but for what the OP is after, and for my own personal tastes I prefer mechanical.

    Yes you are. You have said that you have to fix it on 'lots' of bikes because it is unreliable and so shouldn't be considered. You haven't had a good word to say about it. What the OP is after is Di2!
    You've also got a really bad way of talking to people, btw.

    I object to people piping up and giving what would appear to be sound advise based solely on bull shit, rumour or folk lore. It's a trait, I know.



    Changing with Di2 in the winter... I have ridden in my ski gloves when it is really cold. My fingers remained toasty and the gear changes were perfect. You just couldn't do that with mechanicals, perhaps with the exception of double taps.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • I have to agree with bar shaker about the utter twaddle people talk about Di2.
    I have 10spd Di2 on my bike. I did the whole install myself from start to finish. bought the parts from about 3 shops to get cheapest prices.

    I have ridden through puddles upto the cranks, been out in absolute downpours and only put it away for the winter Christmas week as i wanted it clean for a trip to Spain. I cleaned it in August and then again when Saturday before Christmas. Absolutely no problems. I haven't charged the battery since July but have just plugged it in to take away :D .
    The connection on the wires is absolutely solid. If wires are coming loose then they were never properly inserted. Without the proper tool, I think the wire would break before it unplugged.

    You may prefer mechanical but please don't slag off something just because it is different.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    Madas, that's one of the most unpleasant and belligerent posts I've seen in a good while, and I can do beliigerence. Have a day off...
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    CiB wrote:
    I use Di2 - replaced the mechanical Ultegra with an aftermarket full Ultegra Di2 setup just under 2 years ago. It's a toy, one of the best toys ever invented in World Of Cycle, and I've loved every minute of it bar the occasions when I had issues with it. In my instance it seemed to take a dislike to being out in very cold very wet weather; doing that caused the battery to discharge very rapidly. My dealer tells me they've never seen that on any other setup they've done, but it seems to be resolved now anyway. Simple answer is not to use the nice bike with Di2 on dirty grimy close to freezing days and use the winter hack instead. That seems to be what normal people do anyway - don't use your best bike with the most expensive bits in sh!te weather. I've never heard of anyone else having the problem I saw though.

    Observations: battery life is immense. I went from installation in early March to the end of May on one charge. I have to charge my phone once a week or so, and the iPad every day. The bike gears need charging when the moon is blue; it's just not an issue.

    Gear changes are slicker than slick can be, and require virtually no effort. It's easy to slip into exaggeration mode and describe changes as telepathic, which is nuts obviously but it's not far off. Changes are always bang on - instant, crisp, perfect. You either hit it or if you miss the switch or don't quite think hard enough to make the change ( :) ) nothing happens. Gear changes when stomping up a hill always work first time without the chain jumping over the cogs or falling down between ring & frame. The self-trimming is neat when the chain line steps over to where you'd normally do a manual trim - Di2 looks after that for you.

    Since building the winter hack with the spare Ultegra mechanical gears on it the biggest difference difference I've noticed is the amount of lever movement to effect a gear change. Granted it's not much for either (mech or Di2) but after 18 months of gear change by thought transference, the long push on the lever to shift the mech far enough to drop up or down a gear is noticeable. It's not life-changing, nothing is on a bike, but if you ask me do I want a slight flex or a long push of the finger to change gear, I know which I prefer.

    Indexing Di2 generally doesn't need to be done as there's no cables to stretch, but you might swap wheels occasionally or just want to do it for the fun of it. You can do that on a workstand, with OH holding the back wheel off the ground or when you're ambling along on it at a steady pace - indexing on the move is easy, and satisfying. So is the noise the front mech makes on change or when self-trimming. The rear mech is almost silent; not sure why the difference.

    Installation is best done by people who know what they're doing as there are a few gotchas to watch out for but once it's on it's easy to look after. I've never broken a gear cable (I don't think), can index mechanical gears in the time it takes to drink a cup of tea but would still plump for Di2 on the next bike. I love them, the whole ease of use, always perfect gear change, changing on a climb, the knowledge that gear changes just happen; it's neat.

    I accept that for some people everything about cycling became perfect at some point in the past, whether that was 1976, 1985, 1992 or whenever, and that any changes from that peak are pointless and unnecessary. That's a fair view; my view is that toys like bike computers, Garmin, Di2 all add to the fun. If you fancy electric gears, go for it. The chances of you being disappointed or regretting it are slim, and if the only downside is that some people on the internet don't get it or just plain dislike this sort of thing, that's not your problem.


    Damn you. I am speccing a bike build at the moment and you've just tipped the balance in favour of Di2 !!!!!
  • I've now got 9070 on my best bike and 6870 on my "bad weather" bike and both groupsets are superb. I've had Di2 for a couple of years and I agree with those who say the flawless shifting and lack of fettling is what makes it so great.

    I've never really 'got' the black art of gear adjustment with cables - I realise that's something I could learn, but to be honest I can't be arsed. So Di2 is, for me, perfect.

    And the new 11spd groupsets both feel like a step up again from the originals.
  • Mccaria
    Mccaria Posts: 869
    To the op - if you are thinking 9000 mechanical, make sure you go for the new 9001 levers rather than the original 9000 levers. They have had some issues with cable rub and breakage on the original 9000 levers. For the mechanical 6800 and the 9001 they have changed the angle that the gear cable exits the lever and the speculation is that this was causing cable breakage.

    On cassettes, a number of carbon breakages in the 9000 cassette ( they have used carbon fixings on the larger sprockets) Not a problem with the 6800 cassette as it uses a different fixing and if weight is an issue look at the sram XG 1190 which is compatible and to my mind a better made (although more expensive) cassette. Of course this would be a problem for with mechanical or electric 9000. I have a 9000 cassette which is sounding very ropey in the larger sprockets and have now changed it for the SRAM.

    I have 10 speed di2, 11 speed di2 and 9000 mechanical. I really have had no major problems with any of these. The shifting on the mechanical 9000 is excellent and there is very little give up to di2. If I had to go with just one system it would be mechanical 9000 (cheaper than electric, easier to work on), but I would make sure I got the 9001 levers !
  • A little resistance to the change is inevitable and so are a few problems... overall it seems Di2 has very few problems, compared to other simpler products on the market that have all sorts of issues.
    I personally don't feel the need for it... it doesn't solve any problem and it's not a step up in any possible way. I understand, as the number of sprockets increases, the need for a motor to take over a cable is there, but I question the very need for any more sprockets. As far as I can see I can get a 12-27 cassette with 9 speed or 11 and I can happily do without the 16 and 18 T sprockets that the latter offers. If they came out with a motor able to shift accurately 14 tightly packed sprockets in a cassette with 11-32 evenly spaced gears, then maybe one could see the potential (Fred Whitton, for instance), but otherwise it's purposeless.
    left the forum March 2023
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    Di2 is presumably lighter on the hands since you're not working against the return spring, so good for you 'older' riders with arthritic hands.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • DesWeller wrote:
    Di2 is presumably lighter on the hands since you're not working against the return spring, so good for you 'older' riders with arthritic hands.

    Possibly, but us older riders got used to much harder shifting and braking with old levers, hence our fingers got stronger... maybe Di2 is designed for younger thin alien-like fingered riders?
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    Changing with Di2 in the winter... I have ridden in my ski gloves when it is really cold. My fingers remained toasty and the gear changes were perfect. You just couldn't do that with mechanicals, perhaps with the exception of double taps.
    Yes you can - I rode 2300 in the winter last year - then Tiagra - both with ski gloves. No problem shifting ...

    perhaps you're just ham fisted?
  • gJyQcqP.gif
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles