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Lights and Reflectors Requirement

MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
edited December 2013 in Road general
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
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  • The pedal reflector one really gets me. Very large number out there with clip pedals that cant fit reflectors.

    These rules will be for hours of darkness however.
  • I ride clipless on my commuter, road and cyclocross bike. If they really try to say I need to buy different pedals or face a fine I will find that very ridiculous.
  • Taking the article as a whole, who was consulted on the changes to this Bill? Increasing the powers of under-trained PCSOs to issue fines when the current legislation for cycling with lights and reflectors is outdated.

    It's just crazy.
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    If you get caught by a PCSO then you deserve it. Most couldn't catch the clap in a brothel, much less a cyclist.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Grill wrote:
    If you get caught by a PCSO then you deserve it. Most couldn't catch the clap in a brothel, much less a cyclist.

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • Some clever clogs needs to invent some 'clip-on' reflectors to retro-fit to spd and other clip less pedal systems. That, or we petition for a change in the law, but that's not gonna happen. Trouble is, one could ride a bike at night with 'dozens' of lights, reflectors etc all over the bike, but if there aren't two reflectors on the pedals, the law is being broken…..
    Raymondo

    "Let's just all be really careful out there folks!"
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    The instant gut reaction to most people who ride clipless will be that it's daft or not really possible. But, there's no doubt pedal reflectors do make it very obvious that what you are seeing is a cyclist, nothing else quite looks like that instantly recognisable pair of up and down orange reflectors on the road.

    It's not very practical though if you have SPDs or Speedplays!
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    Raymondo60 wrote:
    Some clever clogs needs to invent some 'clip-on' reflectors to retro-fit to spd and other clip less pedal systems. That, or we petition for a change in the law, but that's not gonna happen. Trouble is, one could ride a bike at night with 'dozens' of lights, reflectors etc all over the bike, but if there aren't two reflectors on the pedals, the law is being broken…..

    On a lot of pedals it would be easy to cut some bits of reflective tape and stick something on, I expect a bit of that could be 99p on eBay.
  • My shoes have reflective heels, I wonder if this could be considered enough? I have followed a mate with similar shoes in the distant and the reflective on his were obvious even by my front lamp!
  • smoggystevesmoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    not a very well thought out law and should be pulled to pieces . pcso can fine if more than 1 person on a bike. what About a tandem or a child seat on the back? both legal but some jobsworth will argue the terminology. what if you have reflective strips on the shoes?

    in one hand the govt want to encourage cycling then in the other they put ridiculous obstacles in the way that end up discouraging the law abiding people who just want to ride
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,643
    mfin wrote:
    Raymondo60 wrote:
    Some clever clogs needs to invent some 'clip-on' reflectors to retro-fit to spd and other clip less pedal systems. That, or we petition for a change in the law, but that's not gonna happen. Trouble is, one could ride a bike at night with 'dozens' of lights, reflectors etc all over the bike, but if there aren't two reflectors on the pedals, the law is being broken…..

    On a lot of pedals it would be easy to cut some bits of reflective tape and stick something on, I expect a bit of that could be 99p on eBay.

    This. My own solution though is to wear orange ankle bands, I reckon I could have a reasonable chance of challenging a fine if I showed I had orange reflectors a few inches higher than the pedals.
  • smoggystevesmoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    found these so they do exist

    http://www.bikedabs.com/shop/shimano-spd-sl/

    there are others you can use while clipped in

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shimano-Road-Pe ... B00AJMHSRW
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    mfin wrote:
    The instant gut reaction to most people who ride clipless will be that it's daft or not really possible. But, there's no doubt pedal reflectors do make it very obvious that what you are seeing is a cyclist, nothing else quite looks like that instantly recognisable pair of up and down orange reflectors on the road.

    but I genuinely cant remember the last time I actually spotted pedal reflectors at night on a bike and I dont think everyone is riding round with SPDs, but because bike lights are now can be so bright, or flashing away like crazy, theres so much light contrast going on the chances of seeing some little bit of 60s era orange plastic stand out beyond all the other reflectiveness going on, Id have thought was tiny thesedays.

    I mean the one thing you never hear when people complain about cyclists who ride without lights at night is, but I saw their pedal reflectors.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    are PCSO's still allowed to fine you even if they don't have an adult with them?
    Not an habitual law breaker, but by the time a pcso sees i have no pedal reflecters i'll be long gone
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • GpfanukGpfanuk Posts: 142
    Whilst I agree in principle with trying to prevent further deaths on our roads, I do take issue with the pedal reflectors requirement. Like the vast majority of people on this forum I run clipless pedals which have no room at all for even the smallest piece of refelctive plastic to be added. So I ask myself what I intend to do should this proposal become law? Carry on as I do with a rear refelective mudguard, two lights front and rear (one constant on, one strobing) and as much hi-viz as I can stand to wear in public! What I won't be doing however is stopping to let some non-policeman try and fine me. How are they going to see you have no pedal reflectors easily enough, and how do they intend to stop you should you refuse anyway? I'd love to see the paperwork generated for calling out "back-up" on that one! :roll:
    Muddy Fox Hardtail Circa 1998
    Triban3
    Felt AR5
    ANC Halfords Peugeot (restored and ridden at Eroica 2015)
    A box of bits that will make a fine Harry Hall when I get round to it.
    Raleigh tandem of as yet unknown vintage - ongoing restoration for Eroica 2016
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm not going to worry about this.

    A. I hardly ever see policemen
    B. I've no reflectors fitted on pedals or the bike - but I do have good lights, and reflective tape on the mudguard. Actually come to think about it - there's a proper reflector there.
    C. My shoes and overshoes both have plenty of reflective stuff on the heel


    Reflectors are of little use round town - but out in the dark country lanes - they're brilliant. I saw a bloke in the lakes late at night on an unlit 70mph dual carriageway. No lights. All in black. But he did have pedal reflectors. He's clearly not placing much value on his life - but the reflectors are a big help.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    The problem you've got is the requirement to be marked with the relevant standard. Shoe or angle reflectors are a good alternative but not legal. Rear reflectors any high vis is going to be more effective along with at least 1 additional light.

    However, while I am only going on memory, I don't believe a PCSO has the power to stop a moving cyclist to check if his lights and reflectors are complying with the relevant standards.

    But pedal reflectors cannot be argued against, since they actually make it really clear you are following bike. Of course all this was before high powered LEDs with flashers and reflective strips.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Grill wrote:
    If you get caught by a PCSO then you deserve it. Most couldn't catch the clap in a brothel, much less a cyclist.
    True!

    I'm sorry, but there is no way I'm fitting reflectors to my bike. I'd rather be chased about by a PCSO, at least it would be good training.
  • GpfanukGpfanuk Posts: 142
    Paul 8v wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    If you get caught by a PCSO then you deserve it. Most couldn't catch the clap in a brothel, much less a cyclist.
    True!

    I'm sorry, but there is no way I'm fitting reflectors to my bike. I'd rather be chased about by a PCSO, at least it would be good training.

    +1
    Muddy Fox Hardtail Circa 1998
    Triban3
    Felt AR5
    ANC Halfords Peugeot (restored and ridden at Eroica 2015)
    A box of bits that will make a fine Harry Hall when I get round to it.
    Raleigh tandem of as yet unknown vintage - ongoing restoration for Eroica 2016
  • Paul 8v wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    If you get caught by a PCSO then you deserve it. Most couldn't catch the clap in a brothel, much less a cyclist.
    True!

    I'm sorry, but there is no way I'm fitting reflectors to my bike. I'd rather be chased about by a PCSO, at least it would be good training.

    Not that good, you'd hardly need to break a sweat to get away from most PCSOs. :D As has been pointed out previously, to see you don't have any reflectors on you'd be riding away from them already so you'd have a head start.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    So all these ppl who can get away from a PCSO - you're not stopping at red lights?

    I have little issue with the desire to enforce the spirit of the law - cyclists need to be seen at night - but in my book that doesn't necessitate pedal reflectors - provided suitable alternatives are used - ie reflectives on overshoes/tights.

    If a PCSO decides that I need a fine because I don't have specific pedal reflectors then I have no problem in challenging that fine in court.

    It is time the law was updated with respect to cycle lights & reflector requirements ..
  • Slowbike wrote:
    So all these ppl who can get away from a PCSO - you're not stopping at red lights?

    I have little issue with the desire to enforce the spirit of the law - cyclists need to be seen at night - but in my book that doesn't necessitate pedal reflectors - provided suitable alternatives are used - ie reflectives on overshoes/tights.

    If a PCSO decides that I need a fine because I don't have specific pedal reflectors then I have no problem in challenging that fine in court.

    It is time the law was updated with respect to cycle lights & reflector requirements ..

    Oh I'll stop at a red but once it's green I'm off, what are they going to do? Of course once this happens a few times the call will come out for licence plates so they can send retrospective tickets :?
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    this is NOT a new law. The legal requirements have not changed , if you been riding in the dark without pedal reflectors or a rear reflector, your breaking the law and have been for the last 60 something years. The only thing in this bill is that it gives PCSO the authority to enforce the existing laws. Therefore wont make a blind bit of distance.

    However , if you get clobbered by a car at night and you're not complying with the law ,you can expect a smart lawyer to start arguing you were negligent with your actions.
    p.s wonder how many of you actually have lights that conform to the relevant regs ? My guess is not many.
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • de_sistide_sisti Posts: 1,220
    sub55 wrote:
    However , if you get clobbered by a car at night and you're not complying with the law ,you can expect a smart lawyer to start arguing you were negligent with your actions.
    p
    Where's your published evidence to prove this?

    Aren't the overwhelming majority of collisions between cars and bikes during daylight hours?
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    De Sisti wrote:
    sub55 wrote:
    However , if you get clobbered by a car at night and you're not complying with the law ,you can expect a smart lawyer to start arguing you were negligent with your actions.
    p
    Where's your published evidence to prove this?

    Aren't the overwhelming majority of collisions between cars and bikes during daylight hours?
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • mfin wrote:
    The instant gut reaction to most people who ride clipless will be that it's daft or not really possible. But, there's no doubt pedal reflectors do make it very obvious that what you are seeing is a cyclist, nothing else quite looks like that instantly recognisable pair of up and down orange reflectors on the road.

    It's not very practical though if you have SPDs or Speedplays!

    I bought a roll of Amber reflective tape off ebay and stuck a strip along the back of my speedplay cleats and on the heels of my shoes - amazing it does stay stuck on the cleats. Nothing like a moving flash of light to catch the eye.
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    mfin wrote:
    The instant gut reaction to most people who ride clipless will be that it's daft or not really possible.......
    It's not very practical though if you have SPDs or Speedplays!

    It's perfectly possible, my Ultegras were supplied with reflectors. I didn't fit them, but it's both possible and practical.

    b82e372d654068aa2a7505cdbb22081b.jpg
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Slowbike wrote:
    So all these ppl who can get away from a PCSO - you're not stopping at red lights?
    You have traffic lights on your rides? :mrgreen:
  • madtammadtam Posts: 141
    sub55 wrote:
    p.s wonder how many of you actually have lights that conform to the relevant regs ? My guess is not many.


    I suspect quite a lot do comply with the law as mentioned in the article anyway.
    I was under the impression that lights had to be constant and conform the the British Standard, which I don't think mine do. However the requirement seems to have been updated such that flashing lights are permitted with a minimum 4 candella. I don't know what mine output but they are seriously bright so I suspect meet this. Not sure how any PC could be expected to check this !!
    I don't have pedal reflectors on my SPD's but previously would have argued that my shoes were an integral part of the pedal system as it isn't possible to cycle without them. Since the shoes have reflectors then this meets the requirements. I now see that the reflector should be amber and the shoes reflect white, also they should face front and rear and they are rear and side, so I guess I fail.
    I did fit some reflectors when I first put the pedals on as they came in the box. However, they broke off quite quickly and I never replaced them.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    Paul 8v wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    So all these ppl who can get away from a PCSO - you're not stopping at red lights?
    You have traffic lights on your rides? :mrgreen:

    Nope :D Just a lollipop lady ... and she's not there when schools on holiday :)
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