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Michael Rogers Positive for Clenbuterol

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  • dish_dash wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    This is one where I might actually believe a contaminated meat story as he was in China just before.

    And Breyne also tested positive for clenbuterol while racing in China...

    Fascinated to see how this thread stays on the right side of the mods given that it throws bertie, sky and doping all together...


    No. No. No.

    Go and say 10 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Fathers, you
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,178
    edited December 2013
    Dimspace FTW

    Dave (Dim) ‏@dimspace 22m
    Rogers positive for clen. Oh lord, this will raise more questions than it answers. Be interesting to see how people choose to take this.

    A. Leaves clean team, goes to dirty team, caught for doping.
    2. Protected by the UCI at sky so doped, no protection at saxo. Commonly known as disco syndrome
    C. Ate dodgy food while in Japan
    4. Uci conspiracy to discredit riis
    E. Scapegoat

    How about the OP sets up a poll then we can just go back to talking about Rocks again...

    There's another but the modmins are sulking and it's got a dirty word about Bertie in it, sure you can guess the jist...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • gpreevesgpreeves Posts: 454
    dish_dash wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    This is one where I might actually believe a contaminated meat story as he was in China just before.

    And Breyne also tested positive for clenbuterol while racing in China...

    Fascinated to see how this thread stays on the right side of the mods given that it throws bertie, sky and doping all together...

    http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDetails2011.asp?id=OTc3OQ&MenuId=MTYzMDQ&LangId=1&BackLink=%2Ftemplates%2FUCI%2FUCI8%2Flayout.asp%3FMenuId%3DMTYzMDQ%26LangId%3D1

    I can imagine both their defences will be along similar lines.
  • Amusing twitter line from Peter Kennaugh's dad on MR: "Rogers - about time really"
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,451
    It doesn't make any sense that someone would dope with an easily detectable drug used for weight loss for the last race of the season. It's like trying to cheat on your French GSCE by smuggling in a German dictionary.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • markwb79markwb79 Posts: 933
    These teams travel with their own chefs, I cant believe meet contamination as a true excuse. Assume he/she will now be sacked.

    Dont want to open up the Bertie conversation. But I was under the impression that the consensus was that he had clenbuterol in his system after taking a blood transfusion. This makes the Rogers case interesting for me. Why was it in his system. I understand it isn't a instant performance enhancer, but more used in the off season when loosing fat and building muscle. So taking it during a race seems odd to me.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759
    TheBigBean wrote:
    With regard to mass failures there are two options that I can think of (i) they have not been testing many people to the same degree of accuracy (ii) it's all porky pies about being able to ingest it by meat contamination.

    I think there may well be a third / fourth option. Either serious athletes are avoiding meats from types of animals that are likely to contain clenbuterol (e.g. is it likely to be in chicken? Fish is not going to have any) or they are sourcing their meat from certain suppliers that don't use animals treated with it.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    ddraver wrote:

    How about the OP sets up a poll then we can just go back to talking about Rocks again...


    DONE!!!
  • RichN95 wrote:
    It doesn't make any sense that someone would dope with an easily detectable drug used for weight loss for the last race of the season. It's like trying to cheat on your French GSCE by smuggling in a German dictionary.

    I would agree. But if he dropped a contaminated bag with Clen then it might be part of the problem.

    But Japan Cup and I think no.

    One thing about dopers I learnt over the years. They are dumb and never follow logic or reason.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    His first win of the year. Wonder if there was any pressure on him to do something special. Any contract issues for next year come into play here with new ownership looming? (I mean was he riding for his dinner at the time).
  • andypandyp Posts: 9,151
    Markwb79 wrote:
    These teams travel with their own chefs, I cant believe meet contamination as a true excuse. Assume he/she will now be sacked.

    Do these chefs bring their own livestock with them too?
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759
    Markwb79 wrote:
    These teams travel with their own chefs, I cant believe meet contamination as a true excuse. Assume he/she will now be sacked.

    Dont want to open up the Bertie conversation. But I was under the impression that the consensus was that he had clenbuterol in his system after taking a blood transfusion. This makes the Rogers case interesting for me. Why was it in his system. I understand it isn't a instant performance enhancer, but more used in the off season when loosing fat and building muscle. So taking it during a race seems odd to me.

    I think the transfusion explanation had two reasons behind it:-

    1. As you say, clen is used to shed fat so it was assumed he'd been using it out of season to keep his weight down and had given donor blood back then that was fed back into him on the Tour rest day.
    2. There were allegedly traces of plasticisers in the sample which were assumed to be from a blood bag.

    Officially the blood transfusion was considered just as unlikely as the contaminated beef excuse but I think that was partly due to the plasticiser 'evidence' not being permissible.

    Apologies if I've got any of the above wrong.
  • markwb79markwb79 Posts: 933
    RichN95 wrote:
    It doesn't make any sense that someone would dope with an easily detectable drug used for weight loss for the last race of the season. It's like trying to cheat on your French GSCE by smuggling in a German dictionary.

    Or there is a masking agent and more people are on it, and he just messed up?
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • Markwb79 wrote:
    These teams travel with their own chefs, I cant believe meet contamination as a true excuse. Assume he/she will now be sacked.

    Dont want to open up the Bertie conversation. But I was under the impression that the consensus was that he had clenbuterol in his system after taking a blood transfusion. This makes the Rogers case interesting for me. Why was it in his system. I understand it isn't a instant performance enhancer, but more used in the off season when loosing fat and building muscle. So taking it during a race seems odd to me.


    To most of them but not to every single race - especially the smaller ones (races, not chefs)
  • I'd always thought he was a doper but I'd say dodgy meat in this instance. There is absolutely no reason for him to dope at this stage - he was considering retirement and he is not going to get a payrise for a great result in that race.

    Froome was eating lots of meat when he was there but I guess that his bigger budget allowed him to eat in the better establishments.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,178
    Tyler Hamilton ‏@Ty_Hamilton 4m
    Karma

    Ooof!! :shock:

    Edit - Twitter being quite good tonight

    Jeremy Whittle ‏@jeremycwhittle 8m
    you gotta give credit where credit's due: in the pantheon of cycling's epic dysfunction, the past 48 hours have been right up there.

    Scott O'Raw ‏@velocast 7m
    @jeremycwhittle makes you proud *dabs tear from eye*

    Dave (Dim) ‏@dimspace 10m
    Early twitter opinion seems to be, Rogers nice guy, was in China, contamination likely, innocent till proven guilty. Now if it was froome :)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759
    Froome was eating lots of meat when he was there but I guess that his bigger budget allowed him to eat in the better establishments.

    :lol: Yep, poor old Rogers on his minimum wage was probably consigned to McDonalds whilst the money bags Sky team were stuffing 16oz Kobe beef steaks
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Pross wrote:
    Markwb79 wrote:
    These teams travel with their own chefs, I cant believe meet contamination as a true excuse. Assume he/she will now be sacked.

    Dont want to open up the Bertie conversation. But I was under the impression that the consensus was that he had clenbuterol in his system after taking a blood transfusion. This makes the Rogers case interesting for me. Why was it in his system. I understand it isn't a instant performance enhancer, but more used in the off season when loosing fat and building muscle. So taking it during a race seems odd to me.

    I think the transfusion explanation had two reasons behind it:-

    1. As you say, clen is used to shed fat so it was assumed he'd been using it out of season to keep his weight down and had given donor blood back then that was fed back into him on the Tour rest day.
    2. There were allegedly traces of plasticisers in the sample which were assumed to be from a blood bag.

    Officially the blood transfusion was considered just as unlikely as the contaminated beef excuse but I think that was partly due to the plasticiser 'evidence' not being permissible.

    Apologies if I've got any of the above wrong.

    ^This. 100%.

    Don't forget his pedigree. Virenque's right nad man, Motorola and much much more. And the fact that he was extremely successful in the years when it was impossible to win without high octane.

    And the support he is receiving from the Pro's on Twitter too.

    Puppy. Pile. Poo.
  • Pokerface wrote:
    His first win of the year. Wonder if there was any pressure on him to do something special. Any contract issues for next year come into play here with new ownership looming? (I mean was he riding for his dinner at the time).


    He rode very well for Bert in the Tour (and Rogers finished higher up the GC than last year FWIW). Rode well for him through most of the year, really. And he was the one who lit the match that saw Saxo put time into Froome on that stage. Contract was secure for next season, I'd have thought.
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    But it is possible to be a veggie pro. But in Roger's case he didn't need to lay off the red meat forever just while in China.

    Sure, and that would be the sensible thing for an international pro to do, but I still think the rules should be workable for everyone.

    That's a fair request. The problem becomes though if you allow for a baseline level of permitted clen for some based on geography you allow for geography to be used to mask micro-dosing.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • andypandyp Posts: 9,151
    Joelsim wrote:

    ^This. 100%.

    Don't forget his pedigree. Virenque's right nad man, Motorola and much much more. And the fact that he was extremely successful in the years when it was impossible to win without high octane.

    And the support he is receiving from the Pro's on Twitter too.

    Puppy. Pile. Poo.

    Are you talking about Rogers?
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Sorry I meant T-Mobile
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    I also wonder how much he had in his system.

    Alberto got caught with a tiny amount that was only picked up by a special lab/testing, etc.

    Rogers' urine was tested in Tokyo, presumably using a less precise protocol. So this would mean the level found would be higher.

    True or not, the defence will most certainly be food contamination.


    Velonation saying that in China the riders would eat food from the race organiser that was supposed to be 'guaranteed' to be safe.
  • Pokerface wrote:
    I also wonder how much he had in his system.

    Alberto got caught with a tiny amount that was only picked up by a special lab/testing, etc.

    Rogers' urine was tested in Tokyo, presumably using a less precise protocol. So this would mean the level found would be higher.

    True or not, the defence will most certainly be food contamination.


    Velonation saying that in China the riders would eat food from the race organiser that was supposed to be 'guaranteed' to be safe.


    WADA warned the riders also. Sadly even if it was contaminated meat he still faces a suspension. It won't get him off the hook although may lessen the suspension by a year.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759
    It will be interesting to see the organiser's paperwork that was used to give that guarantee. Presumably they can track back through the supply chain and see if there is any contamination. The levels are also going to be key to a contamination defence.
  • andypandyp Posts: 9,151
    Joelsim wrote:
    Sorry I meant T-Mobile

    The words "extremely successful" and Michael Rogers don't exactly fit well together. And Virenque's right hand man? Really?

    You are basically making things up to fit your own narrative aren't you? And showing up your lack of knowledge as you go.
  • Pross wrote:
    It will be interesting to see the organiser's paperwork that was used to give that guarantee. Presumably they can track back through the supply chain and see if there is any contamination. The levels are also going to be key to a contamination defence.

    Is there a defence available ? I thought it wss strict liability or is it strict liability in essence but we'll consider a good excuse? I was amazed that the whole contador thing went on as long as it did.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • Joelsim wrote:
    Sorry I meant T-Mobile

    He was named in the Freiburg papers of receiving a transfusion the night of the prologue in 2006.

    He was also linked to Ferrari.

    His best form was at Sky 2012 and at the 2007 Tour before he broke his collarbone.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    If food contamination, you would expect other riders to also test positive. Assuming other Saxo riders were even tested in either Japan or China.

    Or even more positives from other tested riders if from contaminated race food.
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