Does Strava need a handicap system?

Roberto di Velo

Just wondering what people thought about this. I was wondering whether there should be separate leaderboards for races or chain gangs, or maybe rider classes?

In my area it is increasingly tough to get anywhere on the strava leaderboards and I suspect this is probably the same for others on here. I started to think about this a couple of months back, having really gone for it on the last few miles of ride home. Checked strava and sure enough I'd made some pr's; checked the segment and despite averaging just shy of 20mph on a run with a couple of short, sharp climbs, I'd finished outside the top 100!

This was the segment and yes, it'd recently had a race there:

http://www.strava.com/segments/751061

That said, there are many similarly tough segments near me. I guess my question is; will this put off new and average riders? Will strava need to think of some sorts of incentives for people who aren't incredibly serious cyclists?

nochekmate

The lad in 7th on that stretch, Chris Limberger is a clubmate of mine - younger lad who is currently 2nd CAT rider - he's pretty strong at the moment. Looks like a race took place on that date.

Compete against yourself if you cannot make the leaderboards - that's all you need to worry about - monitor your own improvement.

rolf_f

Roberto di Velo wrote:

That said, there are many similarly tough segments near me. I guess my question is; will this put off new and average riders? Will strava need to think of some sorts of incentives for people who aren't incredibly serious cyclists?

The not incredibly serious cyclists could fall back on the incentive of simply going for a bike ride! It's fun chasing segments but if you are dependent on them then you've probably lost the plot a bit. Strava wasn't around a little while ago and it wouldn't matter a jot if it folded tomorrow.

As nocheckmate says - race yourself. Or race your fellow club members. Or people fatter than you. There's other things than absolute KOMs.

stelfc2005

i did'nt believe a rumor i heard a while ago until today , i spotted a group of lads driving to segments in a vw transporter unloading their bikes and using the howling tailwind to ,i assume to hammer the strava top tens , spotted them twice in two hours . Could you really be bothered !! As long as people are doing these sort of stunts strava is just a tool to gauge my own improvements

sloppyschleckonds

Is there a Leaderboard for those that take it really really seriously?

littledove44

Strava helps you compete with yourself. Forget about leaderboards unless you want to go out for short rides, with a tailwind, and your mates to shield you from the little headwind that's left, and pursue a time that you are totally incapable of on your own.

LegendLust

Roberto di Velo wrote:

Just wondering what people thought about this. I was wondering whether there should be separate leaderboards for races or chain gangs, or maybe rider classes?

In my area it is increasingly tough to get anywhere on the strava leaderboards and I suspect this is probably the same for others on here. I started to think about this a couple of months back, having really gone for it on the last few miles of ride home. Checked strava and sure enough I'd made some pr's; checked the segment and despite averaging just shy of 20mph on a run with a couple of short, sharp climbs, I'd finished outside the top 100!

This was the segment and yes, it'd recently had a race there:

http://www.strava.com/segments/751061

That said, there are many similarly tough segments near me. I guess my question is; will this put off new and average riders? Will strava need to think of some sorts of incentives for people who aren't incredibly serious cyclists?

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

Roberto di Velo

littledove44 wrote:

Strava helps you compete with yourself. Forget about leaderboards unless you want to go out for short rides, with a tailwind, and your mates to shield you from the little headwind that's left, and pursue a time that you are totally incapable of on your own.

I was thinking of getting someone with a moped to ride ahead of me, or maybe I could just borrow the moped....

I can't really disagree with what people are saying (and I'm pleasantly surprised no-ones mentioned rule 5). I am happy just to ride with friends or to try and compete against myself, but it has been a fun motivation to chase the odd KOM or top 10 placing. I think by the very nature of strava, these are naturally going to get tougher over time. I was just wondering whether there was a way of tweaking the format, to include some more marginal incentives, as opposed to employing a team of domestiques/driving around in a van chasing times.

LittlePlums

Create a framework for sportspeople to compete against each other and are you really surprised that the times keep getting quicker? There will always be someone, somewhere, quicker than you. Live with it.

Or create a segment down your driveway and remember to close the gate each time you come in.

Does the FA cup have a handicap system?

bondurant

I'm pretty sure we can't expect Strava or even the next Labour Government to tell people under what conditions they are allowed to be fastest on a particular stretch of road.

imposter2.0

News just in: some riders are faster than others

mrfpb

Strava is created and moderated by people thousands of miles away on another continent. Will they care? It's open to all sorts of cheating. The KOM title is not to be taken seriously (0.3 miles downhill? - Chris Froome would be so proud of that). As otjets have said, if you want to race then race at a properly timed and adjudicated event. If you want to improve then monitor your own performance or find people with similar abilities. You may be able to do this on Strava. You could also join a club.

Buckie2k5

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

You are really mislead if you feel the majority of strava users think they are racing. Strava is not pathetic, If used correctly it is one of the best training tool out there.

BillyMansell

Strava has just gone up in my estimations. It has been the X Factor of cycling giving false hope by bestowing someone with cycling greatness, a quick fix to celebrity status without the years of effort of competing against your peers to rise through the Cats. That the Cats are taking over is no big surprise as natural order is being restored.

As a training tool it may be of some benefit to help an individual improve much as many other similar online and offline products can be but the OP is wanting a handicap system to rein in the masses who are quicker when it should be the slower riders aspiring to be better.

davidof

Roberto di Velo wrote:

or maybe rider classes?

I thought there was, if you have the premium version you can sort by age, like a TT or RR.

rolf_f

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

Forget racing - it's pathetic. Do you know what - I've been commuting along various routes for over four years and there hasn't once been a single race organised from my house to work at 6:45 am. How crap is that?

Strava, racing - two different things.

term1te

I read a while back in one of the papers that Strava were working on a age related handicap system. If nothing else it will start a few threads on how poor their age algorithm is, and how some bloke is clearly 10 years younger than he is claiming.

All good fun.

LegendLust

Rolf F wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

Forget racing - it's pathetic. Do you know what - I've been commuting along various routes for over four years and there hasn't once been a single race organised from my house to work at 6:45 am. How crap is that?

Strava, racing - two different things.

:?:

LegendLust

Buckie2k5 wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

You are really mislead if you feel the majority of strava users think they are racing. Strava is not pathetic, If used correctly it is one of the best training tool out there.

Is it? Please explain

imposter2.0

LegendLust wrote:

Buckie2k5 wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

You are really mislead if you feel the majority of strava users think they are racing. Strava is not pathetic, If used correctly it is one of the best training tool out there.

Is it? Please explain

I race and I use strava - work that one out. The two are not mutually exclusive. As Buckie says, it is actually quite a good progress tracking tool, and I log all my rides on it. Use it with something like Veloviewer and it is actualy pretty useful...

philbar72

madasahattersley wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

Truer word have ne'er been spoke.

Exactly right. i love measuring improvement, but understand that when there are 6 of us in a paceline smashing it up on the way in to windsor, that there is no hope of me replicating that speed solo.

Thats why i'm off to Spillingdon on Saturday....

sbbefc

If you can be bothered to pay for it you can see your position in relation to people of the same age and weight if it concerns you that much.

bigmat

I quite like Strava. Its a handy tool for logging mileage and the segments / leaderboards are a bit of fun. I find its a good motivator when I'm doing what might otherwise be junk miles to work and back, using the various segments as intervals and logging my progress with PRs and moves up the leaderboards. Its also nice to have a crack at any bigger hills when I get the chance.

I don't get the comparison with "proper racing" - its completely different. Why tell someone they should be doing a road race if they target a segment on their commute to work? Its just complete nonsense.

I do think people take it way too seriously, but on both sides of the argument. People get obsessed with chasing KoM's (cheating? FFS why?!) but also with looking down their noses at people just having a bit of fun on a bike - mind your business if you're not interested.

slowbike

I cycled 10 miles to have a crack at a segment in favourable conditions ...
but - in my defence - the KOM was set in similar conditions (I know the bloke) and I had ridden 9 miles into the headwind to get there ... I also used the same trip to pickup/drop something off at my parents who live near the segment (how lucky are they eh? segment right on their doorstep ... ) so that's my excuse for not being able to beat the other guy to the top spot - I managed to match his time ... that was all

Strava - it's a bit of fun, can be used to track equipment usage and your own progress for minimal effort - if you think it's showing you who is fastest then you're mistaken.... shock&horror - some people don't use strava ...

bernithebiker

I know it's been posted before, but this Hitler Strava vid is hilarious;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6YqAMKxD4

Basically it just takes a Cat 1 peloton to come flying through your area and you've lost all your KOMs anyway.....

Buckie2k5

LegendLust wrote:

Buckie2k5 wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

You are really mislead if you feel the majority of strava users think they are racing. Strava is not pathetic, If used correctly it is one of the best training tool out there.

Is it? Please explain

Well just off the top of my head, i can set weekly distance goals, segement time goals, i can download my training routes too my garmin and race against my own PB's, i can see how my average speeds are improving, i can see how my hillclimbing is improving, i can see how much iam pushing my heart rate. If i had a power meter it gives what looks like some good data. Strava now has its own route planner, If you are a premium member you get free access to sufferfest videos. I can compare my segement times vs others on a graph, usefull for showing where iam losing time ie on climbs etc. Lots of external programs can be used along side it, veloviewer and raceshape for example.

I'am sure there is much much more i have not listed but for free or £3.80 per month premium its excellent and not pathetic as you say.

BillyMansell

Buckie2k5 wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Buckie2k5 wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

You are really mislead if you feel the majority of strava users think they are racing. Strava is not pathetic, If used correctly it is one of the best training tool out there.

Is it? Please explain

Well just off the top of my head, i can set weekly distance goals, segement time goals, i can download my training routes too my garmin and race against my own PB's, i can see how my average speeds are improving, i can see how my hillclimbing is improving, i can see how much iam pushing my heart rate. If i had a power meter it gives what looks like some good data. Strava now has its own route planner, If you are a premium member you get free access to sufferfest videos. I can compare my segement times vs others on a graph, usefull for showing where iam losing time ie on climbs etc. Lots of external programs can be used along side it, veloviewer and raceshape for example.

I'am sure there is much much more i have not listed but for free or £3.80 per month premium its excellent and not pathetic as you say.

Pretty much like every other online or offline resource out there but you haven't addressed your assertion that the majority aren't segment racing which I understood to be LegendLust's contention with Strava.

iPete

The assertion that you should do 'proper racing' because you dabble with Strava is no better than the people who take Strava too seriously. Comes across as pure snobbishness.

rolf_f

LegendLust wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Tell you what. Forget about Strava - it's pathetic. Start 'proper' racing instead. You know the sort, the ones where you pin a number on your back.

Forget racing - it's pathetic. Do you know what - I've been commuting along various routes for over four years and there hasn't once been a single race organised from my house to work at 6:45 am. How crap is that?

Strava, racing - two different things.

:?:

Why the question mark? Surely my point is obvious (as made by many others as well) - Racing and Strava are two different things. I can't see how Racing as a tool for cycle self improvement is going to help me when i'm cycling along the A650 in the morning. I have no desire to try road racing but I do wish to improve my cycle fitness, speed etc. Strava is one of several tools I can use to do this. What is so wrong with that?

Mikey23

@bb... I've not seen it before .. Thanks for sharing. Absolutely brilliant!!

Buckie2k5

BillyMansell wrote:

Pretty much like every other online or offline resource out there but you haven't addressed your assertion that the majority aren't segment racing which I understood to be LegendLust's contention with Strava.

Yes but strava has it all under 1 roof so to speak. As for legendlusts he assumes people only use strava for "segment racing" this is far from the truth. Plus he is upset his nokia cant pickup gps