Hmm, one to be wary of

StillGoing

Currently on the search for a new frame set for my winter bike and found this one on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1334804246

Seller reckons it's unused and he's selling it for a friend who bought it new for his wife but doesn't want it. There's no receipt available he tells me so I've asked him to provide the frame number to see if it has been reported stolen. Let's see what he comes back with. Could be legit, but it doesn't smell it.

keef66

Checking his feedback as a seller he's shifted a few unlocked mobile phones. Hmmm.

Pumpkin Positive

This is why eBay / gumtree should require all bikes listed on their site to include a frame number.

I think you're instincts are probably correct on this one.

ju5t1n

Unwanted gift?!?

lotus49

While the reason is a bizarre one (after all, who buys the wrong frame as a present - it's not like anyone would just wander past a bike shop and think "I bet she'd like one of those") how would anyone go about stealing a bike frame?

It's clearly brand new and hardly the sort of thing you could stick in your pocket in a bike shop.

It will be interesting to see whether the seller responds. Every time I have been suspicious of an eBay listing and asked a question like that, the seller has ignored my message.

StillGoing

lotus49 wrote:

While the reason is a bizarre one (after all, who buys the wrong frame as a present - it's not like anyone would just wander past a bike shop and think "I bet she'd like one of those") how would anyone go about stealing a bike frame?

It's clearly brand new and hardly the sort of thing you could stick in your pocket in a bike shop.

It will be interesting to see whether the seller responds. Every time I have been suspicious of an eBay listing and asked a question like that, the seller has ignored my message.

He came back within minutes of my initial questions but is yet to respond to a request for the frame number. It's easy enough to lift a frame or even a bike from most stores when the staff's attention is diverted to other customers and sometimes deliveries are just dropped off at the entrance to be taken to the workshop when someone gets a chance. You'd be surprised how many retailers have stock taken in this way. It's also easy enough to have stolen it from the importers warehouse if the "friend" works there.

StillGoing

I don't think that applies with this bloke. As a retired police officer the "selling for a friend" rings alarm bells and when there's no receipt for a new and unused frame, I really start to think things are iffy. He still hasn't come back with any frame numbers and I doubt he will. Ebay are useless at policing these things, I've alerted them to numerous stolen motorcycles on there but they won't provide the seller address details to alert the local force with. Their response is always the seller's home force will have to request the data. How the fek can I tell which is the local force if you don't tell me where in the country he is. Numpties.

ugo.santalucia

What's wintery about that frame? I would be surprised if it takes 25 mm tyres... a winter bike is not a bike that you paid less and don't mind getting dirty, but it is a bike that has some features that help you through the winter. That one is the exact opposite

andyc182

being totally nieve about these things, and having bought a bike from ebay 2 days and waiting for it to turn up.........is there a website you can put the frame number in to see if its been nicked or do you have to check via the police?

bernithebiker

philthy3 wrote:

I don't think that applies with this bloke. As a retired police officer the "selling for a friend" rings alarm bells and when there's no receipt for a new and unused frame, I really start to think things are iffy. He still hasn't come back with any frame numbers and I doubt he will. Ebay are useless at policing these things, I've alerted them to numerous stolen motorcycles on there but they won't provide the seller address details to alert the local force with. Their response is always the seller's home force will have to request the data. How the fek can I tell which is the local force if you don't tell me where in the country he is. Numpties.

Given the huge amounts of cash that Ebay coin in every second (have you seen their selling fees lately? (plus Paypal fees of course!), it's outrageous that they can effectively act as a 'fence' for stolen goods and get away with it. Surely even just 1% of their profits put towards anti-crime measures would be effective.

diy

Not always stolen, can be fake too. I've been on the look for a Venge or Shiv and really can't trust the ebay stuff, the fakes are just too good.

StillGoing

Well nothing has come back from the "seller" so it's been reported as potentially stolen or fraud item as someone has made an offer on it. Wouldn't want someone to be conned. Doubtless Ebay will do bugger all about it. It once took me an eternity to get information out of them when I was job for a stolen Yamaha R6, by the time they'd complied with data protection requests, the thief had disposed of the bike to some mug in Denmark. His local force uncovered enough to identify several other bikes though. Ebay are useless for this kind of thing.

StillGoing

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What's wintery about that frame? I would be surprised if it takes 25 mm tyres... a winter bike is not a bike that you paid less and don't mind getting dirty, but it is a bike that has some features that help you through the winter. That one is the exact opposite

A winter bike is what the individual wants and chooses to do with it. I simply don't want to crap up my main bike with salt and sludge so yes for me a winter bike is something I don't mind getting dirty and will spend the drier months attached to the turbo. My main bike is very focused so even a Kuota Kharma will seem like a tourer in comparison. And yes it will take 25mm tyres.

diy

Part of the problem is Plod adapting to internet crime and going about things in a smarter way. If they got coordinated they could get proper control of ebay and the like, but they don't they act provincially and their requests to investigate half a dozen items get bogged down with all the other police requests. A bit of coordination and they could use some of the better powers against internet firms who don't comply with requests. e.g. proceeds of crime.

StillGoing

The Provincial bit is all down to Ebay. Even with a submitted data protection request, they insist they will only communicate with the SPOC of the force where the seller lives. Alas there are too many adverts on Ebay for someone to trawl it full time looking for dodgy items. The responsibility for effective control of sales must come from the site owners. Let people report items as stolen and Ebay/Gumtree in turn forward that concern to the police for investigation. The only loss is all the revenue both sites will lose when the thieves and fencers stop using the site to sell their ill gotten wares. That alone is for me the main reason why they make it so difficult to prevent it.

It'd be nice if there was a test case against Ebay for handling stolen goods along the lines of assisting in their retention or disposal if having been alerted to the fact that stolen property is being advertised it satisfies the knowing or believing to be stolen.

Section 22 of the Theft Act 1968 provides:

(1) A person handles stolen goods if (otherwise than in the course of the stealing) knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives the goods, or dishonestly undertakes or assists in their retention, removal, disposal or realisation by or for the benefit of another person, or if he arranges to do so.

(2) A person guilty of handling stolen goods shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.