Flaw in carbon frame

Gixxer40
Gixxer40 Posts: 4
edited November 2013 in Road general
Hi I've just purchased a new giant tcr advanced sl , I've noticed a small dent flaw in the top tube is this acceptable dangerous or weak spot , very new to road bikes and carbon ones at that , any help would be appreciated .

Comments

  • mpatts
    mpatts Posts: 1,010
    If it's from a shop, and you haven't ridden it, take it back.

    Actually, if you have ridden it take it back!
    Insert bike here:
  • i wouldnt be happy with that,

    get it back
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

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  • majormantra
    majormantra Posts: 2,094
    Ehhh, there are always variations in carbon layups, I doubt it's an issue. But if you are concerned take it up with the shop. My guess is that if you do, they'll talk to the Giant warranty department who will tell you it's not an issue.

    But hey, I could be wrong. :)
  • Sent shop the pictures and follows the response I got which I'm quite willing to accept

    Please be assured that this is usual on all Advanced SL grade composite frames as the Carbon Composite used is aero grade and handbuilt therefore no filler or paint is used and can often appear unfinished or of poor quality which is not the case. The Scott Foil carbon road bike is the same and can look worse with paint on top. The Giant Adv SL frame is probably the most technical and advanced on the market so please be assured that this is only cosmetic.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    I wouldn't accept that.

    Saying that the carbon is 'aero grade' is rubbish, it will be the same grade as many other bikes and that the same carbon mat may be used for aircraft parts is irrelevant. All carbon is laid in the moulds by hand, there is no other way of doing it. Frames that have defects like this normally get painted with the best quality ones sold unpainted. Yours has slipped through the net.

    The Advanced SL is a nice frame but is not the most technical or most advanced frame on the market. Not probably, not actually. If it were, defects like creases in the mat would not be there.

    This frame is a 'second', no matter what the shop say. Were you to sell it, a buyer would seriously devalue it because of such a defect, you should too. At this sort of money, you are perfectly entitled to have your bike free of defects, cosmetic or structural and I would insist that it was.
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  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I've not noticed anything like that on my TCR or my other carbon frame. I'd be having a look at other TCRs in the shops to see.
  • Gixxer40 wrote:
    Sent shop the pictures and follows the response I got which I'm quite willing to accept

    Please be assured that this is usual on all Advanced SL grade composite frames as the Carbon Composite used is aero grade and handbuilt therefore no filler or paint is used and can often appear unfinished or of poor quality which is not the case. The Scott Foil carbon road bike is the same and can look worse with paint on top. The Giant Adv SL frame is probably the most technical and advanced on the market so please be assured that this is only cosmetic.

    They're fobbing you off with pseudo science marketing guff. All carbon frames are largely handbuilt and even with a naked UD carbon finish, you should not be getting such obvious defects like yours has. I wouldn't except a fault that bad even on a cheap open mould Chinese frame.

    If it looks that bad on the outside, then who knows what it's like on the inside. There could be huge voids and/or areas where the carbon plys haven't bonded correctly. Would you accept a brand new car if it came with a big dent in the side? I wouldn't and such a defect on a carbon bike frame poses far more of an issue as it's structural.
  • Don't accept it; the reply is pseudoscience BS which is clear sign they are trying to fob you off. Also, if it was just a lay up issue normal for unpainted CF it wouldn't be dented you would just see the weave alignment etc appearing to be imperfect and crossing etc etc .

    Worst case scenario; the dent could be related to a structural problem which may cost you your life
    Best case scenario; the dent is cosmetic only and you've been ripped off if you paid the same price as a good one cost (as said above it will hit you hard if you try to resell the frame at some point).

    Press the issue politely verbally and if no joy contact Consumers Advice and/or Local Trading Standards and write to shop manager. Don't use the bike until this is resolved keep all communications and if you are not experienced in Sale of Goods Acts disputes take advice and follow it.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Tell them that you'll be returning it with the expectation of a full refund or a new frame. Either way you aren't leaving with that frame and will use the sale of goods act to obtain damages from them if they don't play nicely.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • TakeTurns
    TakeTurns Posts: 1,075
    I had a similar imperfection on my Scott addict sl. Absolutely fine. If you're unhappy with it, give it back.
  • majormantra
    majormantra Posts: 2,094
    Lots of nice carbon frames have similar variations. It's a non issue. I really don't see the need to make a big deal about it. Ride your bike.
  • If you want the cosmetic stuff you need to aim at the frames with the 20k? weave carbon finishes, adds a bit of weight and hides a layup process akin to throwing wet paper at a window, but looks very pretty. What you have there is raw carbon goodness
  • If you want the cosmetic stuff you need to aim at the frames with the 20k? weave carbon finishes, adds a bit of weight and hides a layup process akin to throwing wet paper at a window, but looks very pretty. What you have there is raw carbon goodness

    i didnt know it was any heavier. I thought it just had less strength?
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    The photo is so poor I don't see how people are making judgements !
    If that pea size indentation is real the frame is KO
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Pea size? Looks more like an elongated crease to me. It matters not whether it is safe, usable or whatever. It wasn't intended to be manufactured that way so the owner is entitled to a frame of the standard specified or a discounted price on the imperfect one. I couldn't see a Lambourghini buyer accepting a crease in their carbon bodywork just because the dealer says it's still safe, so why should someone buying a carbon framed bike.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    adamfo wrote:
    The photo is so poor I don't see how people are making judgements !

    +1, Rash judgements based on the quality of photo and no side by side comparison.
  • After re contacting the bike shop , they where great very understanding and replaced the bike no problem at all ! The new bike is as far as I can see flawless , fantastic service :-)
  • Gixxer40 wrote:
    After re contacting the bike shop , they where great very understanding and replaced the bike no problem at all ! The new bike is as far as I can see flawless , fantastic service :-)

    Great result. Shame they tried to fob you off in the first instance though.
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    philthy3 wrote:
    Pea size? Looks more like an elongated crease to me.

    Scroll down the photo
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    adamfo wrote:
    philthy3 wrote:
    Pea size? Looks more like an elongated crease to me.

    Scroll down the photo

    Ah I see. I thought the internal cable opening was a crease. :oops: Agree the pea size blemish isn't much to be worries about, but I still say it is an imperfection and should have been discounted for it or replaced with an unblemished one.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.