Weird police cycle training
adr82
Posts: 4,002
I was cycling into Glasgow this morning and in a village called Thorntonhall I caught up with a bunch of 6-7 people riding in a straggly line, all wearing fluorescent "POLICE" vests. I don't know if they were all trainee bike cops or whatever, but what I found really weird was their signalling. I was going to overtake them when the guy at the back stuck his arm straight out from his body, exactly as if he was about to make a right turn. So I hung back and waited, but none of them turned. Then they did it again a little further along the road and I realised each time they did it they were simply signalling to move to the right very slightly to pass parked cars! Not even cars that were on the road, they were parked three-quarters on the pavement. Does anyone else do this?! Is it common?? Crazy IMO, any driver seeing that is going to think the same as I did and get very confused. Would have expected better from the police...
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So when driving to you not indicate to pass stationary cars?0
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if there is an obstruction on the left it is normal to point across your back with your left arm0
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How many non-cyclists would recognise that though.0
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kwi wrote:So when driving to you not indicate to pass stationary cars?outcastjack wrote:if there is an obstruction on the left it is normal to point across your back with your left armkwi wrote:How many non-cyclists would recognise that though.0
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You are actually meant to indicate when you leave your normal line, regardless of crossing the central divide or not. It's the changing course or direction bit of the highway code.0
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You are going to wish you had never posted this, not sure why ..0
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kwi wrote:You are actually meant to indicate when you leave your normal line, regardless of crossing the central divide or not. It's the changing course or direction bit of the highway code.make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down0
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Are you sure it said police and not polite? There's a company out there producing safety vests with polite on them made to look like police. I don't know why as I recall a warning that wearers would be prosecuted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -bibs.html
http://www.highvisibility.uk.com/polite
Having recently retired after 30 years in the police I have never seen any officer given cycle training. Of course the new executive of chinless wonders who will have done a risk assessment and strategy document on the use of bicycles by staff may have decided in a knee jerk moment that everyone must do cycle training to avoid a vicarious liability claim against the Chief Constable.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
> Are you sure it said police and not polite?
That's exactly what I was going to say. Only last night I was cycling and went past a rider on a horse and her bib/jacket thing said, I thought for a second, POLICE, but on second, even third, look, I realised it was POLITE. Funny thing to have printed on your jacket. I might have one made up saying THOUGHTFUL or ...0 -
outcastjack wrote:if there is an obstruction on the left it is normal to point across your back with your left arm"It never gets easier, you just go faster"0
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It's a sensible practice IMO. So many drivers can't see beyond their own bonnet and have no comprehension of cycling at all so much that they have no idea you have to move out because of parked cars, making this obvious is a good thing.0
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Depends on the obstruction, traffic and what vehicle I'm using. As has been said above - it's to indicate you're about to deviate from your normal line - so if I can see an obstruction in my path I generally try a gradual move out to go around and not indicate - however, if there are lots of cars passing me then I may stay in and indicate a bit later then pull out - because it allows more cars to get past.
I generally indicate when in my car because it's a fooking great 4x4 and nobody can see past me to know I'm about to go past an obstruction...0 -
I put my arm out whenever I want to discourage drivers from overtaking, mainly when about to accelerate down a fast downhill. Before I did this cars would sometimes try and pass me and it led to at least one very dangerous situation.Smarter than the average bear.0
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adr82 wrote:Does anyone else do this?! Is it common?? Crazy IMO, any driver seeing that is going to think the same as I did and get very confused. Would have expected better from the police...
When I did my driving theory test, one of the situations on the hazard perception test was coming up behind a bike who was coming up to parked cars. You were meant to realise that the cyclist was going to move out and the cyclist looking over his right shoulder was an indication that he was going to move out. No arm signals at all.
I don't know if this is still included in the test, but the hazard perception bit was a new thing so only people who took their test in the last 10 years or so will have done it.0 -
Indicate when necessary and when someone will benefit. Simples.
If plod thought you were about to overtake and knew he needed to move out, it sounds like a correct signal.0 -
Having done BikeAbility instructor training, in the situation described by the OP, and remember that is the only scenario we've been asked to comment on, then you don't have to signal but you would turn your head well in advance of the situation to both to check for following traffic and, should there be following traffic, to make eye contact so as to indicate your intention to move out.0
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Remember that the police want to be seen to be doing things by the book when a more experienced non-police cyclist may seem that a hand signal in that situation wasn't necessary.0
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If you got a hi-vis vest with 'Police' on the back, would it make you safer?
Although it's probably illegal.0 -
Illegal yes; impersonating a police officer.
However these are common especially with horse riders
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The "book" will be Roadcraft based.. Google IPSGA (information, position, speed, gear, accelerate). Arguably the whole "system" is applicable to cycling, though our ability to vary speed makes the SGA bit a bit less important. But the Information phase is applicable to everyone on the road.
Information - Take, Use, Give (TUG). He could have archived the same by taking up an early overtake position to address the parked car or thanked you in advance for holding back.
Fat frank from the taxi rank may be more experienced than your avg. driving instructor, doesn't make him an expert.
Overdoing signals, observation etc. is not doing it by the book its driving like a learner. If its necessary do it, if not don't.
You need to do a bit more than wear something that vaguely resembles a plod jacket to be guilty under sec 90 Police Act 1996: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/section/900 -
antfly wrote:I put my arm out whenever I want to discourage drivers from overtaking, mainly when about to accelerate down a fast downhill. Before I did this cars would sometimes try and pass me and it led to at least one very dangerous situation.
I put my arm out and the cretins STILL overtake!0 -
adr82 wrote:kwi wrote:You are actually meant to indicate when you leave your normal line, regardless of crossing the central divide or not. It's the changing course or direction bit of the highway code.make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
But presumably if you know your highway code, it wouldn't confuse you at all? I've always known that when pulling out to go round parked cars, or even just to take a primary position in the road, you should indicate. I don't always do it, because I always assume that the driver behind me is a numpty and will be startled, but sometimes you just need to make your intentions clear.0 -
diy wrote:The "book" will be Roadcraft based.. Google IPSGA (information, position, speed, gear, accelerate). Arguably the whole "system" is applicable to cycling, though our ability to vary speed makes the SGA bit a bit less important. But the Information phase is applicable to everyone on the road.
Information - Take, Use, Give (TUG). He could have archived the same by taking up an early overtake position to address the parked car or thanked you in advance for holding back.
Fat frank from the taxi rank may be more experienced than your avg. driving instructor, doesn't make him an expert.
Overdoing signals, observation etc. is not doing it by the book its driving like a learner. If its necessary do it, if not don't.
You need to do a bit more than wear something that vaguely resembles a plod jacket to be guilty under sec 90 Police Act 1996: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/section/90
Thing is, those vests are items of clothing that by their colouring, design and logo imply that the wearer is a member of a police force. Adding wording such as "Slow" or "Slow down" can only add weight to an allegation. Personally I wouldn't bother other than to let the wearer know what a sad bastard I thought they were.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
philthy3 wrote:Thing is, those vests are items of clothing that by their colouring, design and logo imply that the wearer is a member of a police force. Adding wording such as "Slow" or "Slow down" can only add weight to an allegation. Personally I wouldn't bother other than to let the wearer know what a sad bastard I thought they were.
Personally I rather object to being told to "Slow Down" - especially since I've driven/ridden carefully to start with - but then the message isn't aimed at ppl like me - it's aimed at the twats who "m u s t o v e r t a k e" now ...
I put the blame squarely at the cheap availability of power for no effort - in the past, if you wanted a high power car or motorbike then you had to work on the engine - or have enough money to buy something fast - and it wasn't cheap ... these days you can get something that goes like sh1t off a shuvel for a few hundred quid and need to know nothing about how it works.0 -
dnwhite88 wrote:outcastjack wrote:if there is an obstruction on the left it is normal to point across your back with your left arm
^this0 -
The main problem with the "SLOW DOWN" messages its NOBODY thinks it applies to them0
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ednino wrote:dnwhite88 wrote:outcastjack wrote:if there is an obstruction on the left it is normal to point across your back with your left arm
^this
This is not a signal a motorist would recognise though, is it? Neither would a cyclist who has never ridden with a club; me for instance. It's the cycling equivalent of a masonic handshake; clear to those in the know, but baffling to mere Muggles.0 -
I (probably incorrectly, but it seems to help drivers) use arm signals that vary slightly depending on if I'm turning off the road, or pulling out past obstacles on the left. To turn off, my right arm would extend straight out from my shoulders. To pull out into the lane/road, my right hand/lower arm would point out the way at a lower level, about in line with my hip. I sometimes wave my hand/arm a bit aswell to make the point. Indicating a hazard on the left by using my arm behind my back is something I only do in groups of riders and drivers will NOT understand it.0
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Hmm this got more responses than I expected.nweststeyn wrote:I (probably incorrectly, but it seems to help drivers) use arm signals that vary slightly depending on if I'm turning off the road, or pulling out past obstacles on the left. To turn off, my right arm would extend straight out from my shoulders. To pull out into the lane/road, my right hand/lower arm would point out the way at a lower level, about in line with my hip. I sometimes wave my hand/arm a bit aswell to make the point. Indicating a hazard on the left by using my arm behind my back is something I only do in groups of riders and drivers will NOT understand it.diy wrote:Indicate when necessary and when someone will benefit. Simples.
If plod thought you were about to overtake and knew he needed to move out, it sounds like a correct signal.0 -
philthy3 wrote:Are you sure it said police and not polite? There's a company out there producing safety vests with polite on them made to look like police. I don't know why as I recall a warning that wearers would be prosecuted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -bibs.html
http://www.highvisibility.uk.com/polite
Having recently retired after 30 years in the police I have never seen any officer given cycle training. Of course the new executive of chinless wonders who will have done a risk assessment and strategy document on the use of bicycles by staff may have decided in a knee jerk moment that everyone must do cycle training to avoid a vicarious liability claim against the Chief Constable.
Doesn't really make that much difference though, whether they were police or not I still don't agree with people being taught to ride like that.0