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Pro Cycling Team Genealogy

nic_77nic_77 Posts: 928
edited November 2014 in Pro race
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet... dimspace (velorooms) has been working on a graphical genealogy of all pro teams:

http://velorooms.com/files/2013Full.pdf

Looks like a labour of love!
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  • Only Dave (dimspace) would do this....

    :)
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    That's pretty cool. In the 2014 thread there's a mention of Movistar moving away from Pinarello. Since they were Banesto all those years ago have they always used Pinarello? (I used to watch cycling when I was younger in the big mig years and have only come back to it in the last year or so)
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    Paul 8v wrote:
    That's pretty cool. In the 2014 thread there's a mention of Movistar moving away from Pinarello. Since they were Banesto all those years ago have they always used Pinarello? (I used to watch cycling when I was younger in the big mig years and have only come back to it in the last year or so)
    Yes. It must be one of the longest running team-bike connections. Even before Banesto, Reynolds rode Pinarellos.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,914
    Of the last 14 riders to win the Tour de France, 7 of them won on a Pinarello - Delgado, Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Pereiro, Wiggins & Froome.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,780 Lives Here
    RichN95 wrote:
    Of the last 14 riders to win the Tour de France, 7 of them won on a Pinarello - Delgado, Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Pereiro, Wiggins & Froome.

    Great stat.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Would have been a pretty good run for Trek....
  • Paul 8v wrote:
    Would have been a pretty good run for Trek....


    Oh shuuuush... :)
  • dimspacedimspace Posts: 53
    edited October 2014
    Pdf link for this has moved.

    its now http://velorooms.com/files/teamgen.pdf

    theres been a lot updated, it now covers every single team to ride a grand tour since 1990 to the present date so 25 years of teams, all traced backwards as far as they go, and linked to each other etc, as well as all the previous incarnations of teams and teams that they come from so in some instances it goes back to the fifties and sixties.

    Im taking a short break from doing this (ive been working on it on and off for a year). At the moment just doing little updates tidying it, drawing images for some of the more notable kits and adding them, then once im refreshed i will start working backwards again, i would like to get back to 1970 by the end of this off season. Regular updates will appear Here
  • Only Dave (dimspace) would do this....

    :)

    :P

    To be honest, it has made a welcome change from doing stuff about doping :D (i just didnt actually realise what a task i had taken on when i started.)
  • Now Armstrong has been stripped, who was 1st to win the Tour on Sh*mano?

    Sastre?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • pinnopinno Posts: 38,248
    dimspace - no mention of Clas Cajastur?
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year." President of Abyssinia's annual address to the nation.
  • dimspace - no mention of Clas Cajastur?

    They are in there, but they are buried in Italy with a spanish flag.

    Because the sponsor, and both managers moved to Mapei-Clas i decided to put them feeding into Mapei because the various teams feeding into the mapei superteam was more interesting than having Clas (which was fairly shortlived) floating around in spain.. i should maybe put them in spain shaded with a note to "see mapei"

    wuq70w.png

    theres a few instances like that, for instance originally i had phonak in the us thread as their history to bmc was relevant but eventually relented. I will probably move switzerland under USA to make that link easier which is what ive done where possible.

    (the pdf should be searchable - it is in foxit - so you can search for the teams you are looking for)
  • pinnopinno Posts: 38,248
    Cheers dimspace. I sill have the Vini Caldirola/Longoni shorts.

    Pepsi-Fannini ?
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year." President of Abyssinia's annual address to the nation.
  • Cheers dimspace. I sill have the Vini Caldirola/Longoni shorts.

    Pepsi-Fannini ?

    Havnt got that far back yet. This latest version covers all grand tour teams since 1990.

    Basically what im doing is taking each year working backwards, so started with 2014 and go backwards year by year. Look at the grand tour entrants for that year,

    so for instance, 1990 (which is the last year ive done), look at the list of GT entrants, identify which ones i havnt charted, i then trace them for their entire history (direct history) both forward and backwards. Then go back a year etc..

    Fanini Maggi stopped in 92, oh.. hang on...

    yes, i have completely missed Fanini Maggi.. :D I noticed them early on because they were amore & vita in 1990 and amore and vita continued sponsoring teams, but when ive looked at the 1990 giro ive seen amore and vita and had a brainfart moment and thought i had already done them. :D

    that said, ive started looking at 1989 and had already spotted pepsi so i would have discovered my oversight. :D
  • Actually theres some dispute over this.

    Wikipedia and some other sources have the 1989 Pepsi-Alba Sucini linked to the 1990 amore/vita fanini team, but this may or not be correct

    And there doesnt seem to be any correlation between riders or staff from Pepsi to the 1990 amore team (a couple of riders went there, but team boss went to Gis Gelati) so i think wikipedia and other sources are wrong.

    In which case Pepsi ended in 1989, so i will get to them next update

    this is why its such a nightmare. every new team brings up a whole bunch of conflicting information to be delved through
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,914
    Dim, I'm assuming you are aware of Memoire-du-Cyclisme. If not it's just about the best resource for what you're doing.
    http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/pelotons/pelotons.php
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pinnopinno Posts: 38,248
    I have no idea as to what possessed you to do this but it is fascinating and chapeau.

    I had a Gis Gelati/Jolly cycling jersey way back when I was a yoof and getting into this cycling thing - it was cheap. Have you any idea as to the 'Jolly' part of their sponsorship? Who were JollyI? tried Wiki but not much joy however, the amount of info on Italian cyclists/teams is phenomenal. Must take a lot of sorting.
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year." President of Abyssinia's annual address to the nation.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 38,248
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dim, I'm assuming you are aware of Memoire-du-Cyclisme. If not it's just about the best resource for what you're doing.
    http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/pelotons/pelotons.php

    That ^ goes back to 1868 !! 1868 !! Had to say that to myself twice. Wtf contraptions did they ride in 1868?

    Worth a decent butchers but it's late and i'm off to bed.
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year." President of Abyssinia's annual address to the nation.
  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    I have no idea as to what possessed you to do this but it is fascinating and chapeau.

    I had a Gis Gelati/Jolly cycling jersey way back when I was a yoof and getting into this cycling thing - it was cheap. Have you any idea as to the 'Jolly' part of their sponsorship? Who were JollyI? tried Wiki but not much joy however, the amount of info on Italian cyclists/teams is phenomenal. Must take a lot of sorting.
    http://www.jollywear.com/?
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Dim, I'm assuming you are aware of Memoire-du-Cyclisme. If not it's just about the best resource for what you're doing.
    http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/pelotons/pelotons.php

    Yeh, Memoire is one of my primary and most reliable sources.

    All my sources are linked on teh updates page, but when the final chart is done i will also add them to that.

    include but not limited to

    wikipedia.es
    wikipedia.it
    wikipedia.fr
    cqranking.com
    les-sports.info
    The Sports.org
    Dopelogy.org
    cyclisme-dopage.com
    memoire-du-cyclisme.eu
    histoire.maillots.free.fr
    CyclingArchives.com

    On the whole ive found wikipedia allarmingly unreliable the further back you go. I did start editing and correcting wikipedia as I went, but it got to the point where it was simple waaaaaay too much work.

    most of the sourcing i do from memoire, but everything is then cross checked against histoire-maillots, les-sports info to establish its 100% correct. Spanish and Italian wiki come in useful for tracking the whereabouts of team managers.
  • I have no idea as to what possessed you to do this but it is fascinating and chapeau.

    Honestly, after spending far too much time over the last five years on doping related data (armstrong business links, armstrong test history, usada redacted names, team doctor lists, complete puerto lists, and gawd knows what else), i decided it was time to do something a little less doping focussed for the cyling community..

    When i started last winter though i thought it would be something to maybe pass some time for a week or two, i totally underestimated a) just how much information would be required b) just how little or conflicting information there was, and by the time i realised the sheer magnitute of the task i figured, ive started, may as well finish. :S

    The sad side note, is after making a conscious effort to get away from the doping side of things, this whole project finds itself no further away from that due to the constant flow of doctors, soigneurs, riders and staff from one dodgy barrel to another. :D
    I had a Gis Gelati/Jolly cycling jersey way back when I was a yoof and getting into this cycling thing - it was cheap. Have you any idea as to the 'Jolly' part of their sponsorship? Who were JollyI? tried Wiki but not much joy however, the amount of info on Italian cyclists/teams is phenomenal. Must take a lot of sorting.

    Jolly were and still are a clothing company, at the time however, from memory, i seem to remember them being a cycling shoe manufacturer in the vein of Sidi etc. Think EKOI are their brand.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 38,248
    Any links to your research on LA?

    Ta.
    S - The Brazilian beach volleyball team
    W - Wiggle Honda

    "This year will be harder than last year. But that is good news; this year will be easier than next year." President of Abyssinia's annual address to the nation.
  • oh gawd..

    business links (re-done for the inside cover of wheelmen)
    http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/lance ... -dimspace/

    test history
    http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/the-l ... f-the-500/
    http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/the-numbers-game/

    theres more in various places
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Just registered for next year's fantasy and have spent a nice couple of hours picking my team. I can't login yet as it has to be approved.
  • dimspace wrote:
    Pdf link for this has moved.

    its now http://velorooms.com/files/teamgen.pdf[/url]

    I can't see this new one, the pdf just comes up blank.

    Is it my Adobe settings?
    My Men 2020 - Mark Cavendish, Ben Swift, Fernando Gaviria, Alejandro Valverde, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Zdenek Stybar, Vincenzo Nibali, Geraint Thomas.
  • mm1mm1 Posts: 1,101
    dimspace wrote:

    Jolly were and still are a clothing company, at the time however, from memory, i seem to remember them being a cycling shoe manufacturer in the vein of Sidi etc. Think EKOI are their brand.

    Different company? The 70s Jolly was Jolly Ceramica, tiles and stuff.
  • mm1 wrote:
    dimspace wrote:

    Jolly were and still are a clothing company, at the time however, from memory, i seem to remember them being a cycling shoe manufacturer in the vein of Sidi etc. Think EKOI are their brand.

    Different company? The 70s Jolly was Jolly Ceramica, tiles and stuff.

    See, my brain is mush :D
    dimspace wrote:
    Pdf link for this has moved.
    its now http://velorooms.com/files/teamgen.pdf[/url]
    I can't see this new one, the pdf just comes up blank.
    Is it my Adobe settings?

    Right click and save as, there may be issues viewing it in browser because its crazy resolution.

    if people ever have problems with pdfs and adobe reader i highly recommend foxit reader. Adobe for some reason takes up a gargantuan amount of disc space and is very slow. foxit is tiny and does a great job
    joelsim wrote:
    Just registered for next year's fantasy and have spent a nice couple of hours picking my team. I can't login yet as it has to be approved.

    your ip was flagged in our spam checking database :D
  • There's been more than 2 UK pro teams!
  • mm1 wrote:
    dimspace wrote:

    Jolly were and still are a clothing company, at the time however, from memory, i seem to remember them being a cycling shoe manufacturer in the vein of Sidi etc. Think EKOI are their brand.

    Different company? The 70s Jolly was Jolly Ceramica, tiles and stuff.

    I think it's Jollj Ceramica - my favourite jersey, Prendas have some.
    Look 566
    Dolan Hercules
    Genesis Flyer
    Sintesi 707
    Genesis Aether
    Charge Plug
  • What do the various colours mean? I mean, is there a precise logic behind the choice of colour to identify a period of time or is it rather subjective?
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