Tour of Britain: Rate the race?

13

Comments

  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Pross wrote:
    Daz555 wrote:
    The GC contest was no contest but that was inevitable given the field who turned up. Wiggo was nailed on from day one.

    I did enjoy the racing though and thought it was a very good Tour.

    Seemed to be plenty on here expecting Wiggins to drop out after the TT. I genuinely didn't expect Sky to take it seriously based on past years and thought a rider from a Pro Conti squad would win.
    I suppose I should clarify my point that I thought Wiggo was nailed on to win - IF he wanted to.

    I had half a feeling he might go home if it rained too much but nope, he stuck at it.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217
    ManOfKent wrote:
    I enjoyed it. The GC was always likely to be a one-man show because the climbs weren't tough enough for the likes of Martin and Quintana to offset Wiggins's strength in the time trial.

    People keep talking as if more climbing would have seen Wiggins off and yet on the hill top finish it was Martin who blew up after trying to attack and only gaining a handful of seconds and other than over Honister neither really showed the form / ability to gain time on the climbs. I suspect even on Honister they would have been countered had it been closer to the finish. Taking out the time trial Wiggins didn't lose any real time to either of them, I think he actually gained quite a bit of time on Martin. That said at least the two of them had a go and added to the enjoyment of spectators.

    If you know the route planner get him to do a 'MTF' on the Tumble. It would be perfect, long steepish climb and plenty of space at the top for race vehicles, only a mile from the nearest town (I almost said from civilisation but that's stretching it a bit with Blaenavon!) and most importantly the climb could be completely closed for as long as required all the way from Govilon to the top as it only provides access to about 3 properties. It could be a real mini mountain finish and provide a real platform for a climber to take back time.
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    Der Kaiser wrote:
    The individual stages have been interesting. The Jersey's battle were on the whole not particularly fascinating with the exception of the sprints. The battle for a few valuable points on the streets of London was exciting to watch.

    Would be great if this event developed into a 4th Grand Tour. If you included the whole of the British isles (Including Ireland, Isle of Man, Scottish islands) you could make it a two week race.

    The womens race will hopefully get a good spread of teams. Would be great to see Vos, Armistead, Wiggle girls et al chasing the blokes up the road.



    The new womens ToB race next year will be a 5-stager in May, not Sep. From the initial news its not going to travel around anything like as much of the country.

    no, I thought the womens tour (remember we arent allowed to call it the womens tour of britain :roll: ) was pretty much nailed on to involve Stoke and more than likely either a Redditch or a Nottingham + some places around East Anglia basically places the Tour Series/Sweetspot have experience of using before and get lots of support from councils.

    Im assuming it will be the one week the TourSeries skips for the womens series at least, as I suspect the majority of teams & riders involved will be drawn from those races, rather than the likes of Vos or Armitsted etc joining in, but I dont know.

    in some ways I fear it could be alot like this years ToB, lots of anticipation, build up, but then actually it fairly obviously all worked out as everyone predicted and feels quite disappointing, I actually did prefer last years event more I think
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Pross wrote:
    ManOfKent wrote:
    I enjoyed it. The GC was always likely to be a one-man show because the climbs weren't tough enough for the likes of Martin and Quintana to offset Wiggins's strength in the time trial.

    People keep talking as if more climbing would have seen Wiggins off and yet on the hill top finish it was Martin who blew up after trying to attack and only gaining a handful of seconds and other than over Honister neither really showed the form / ability to gain time on the climbs. I suspect even on Honister they would have been countered had it been closer to the finish. Taking out the time trial Wiggins didn't lose any real time to either of them, I think he actually gained quite a bit of time on Martin. That said at least the two of them had a go and added to the enjoyment of spectators.

    If you know the route planner get him to do a 'MTF' on the Tumble. It would be perfect, long steepish climb and plenty of space at the top for race vehicles, only a mile from the nearest town (I almost said from civilisation but that's stretching it a bit with Blaenavon!) and most importantly the climb could be completely closed for as long as required all the way from Govilon to the top as it only provides access to about 3 properties. It could be a real mini mountain finish and provide a real platform for a climber to take back time.

    A good post Pross, the climbers were not strong enough to make full use of the stages that suited there talents. Wiggins made the most of a very short TT to gain what proved in the end to be enough time. :D
  • Pross wrote:
    ManOfKent wrote:
    I enjoyed it. The GC was always likely to be a one-man show because the climbs weren't tough enough for the likes of Martin and Quintana to offset Wiggins's strength in the time trial.

    People keep talking as if more climbing would have seen Wiggins off and yet on the hill top finish it was Martin who blew up after trying to attack and only gaining a handful of seconds and other than over Honister neither really showed the form / ability to gain time on the climbs. I suspect even on Honister they would have been countered had it been closer to the finish. Taking out the time trial Wiggins didn't lose any real time to either of them, I think he actually gained quite a bit of time on Martin. That said at least the two of them had a go and added to the enjoyment of spectators.

    If you know the route planner get him to do a 'MTF' on the Tumble. It would be perfect, long steepish climb and plenty of space at the top for race vehicles, only a mile from the nearest town (I almost said from civilisation but that's stretching it a bit with Blaenavon!) and most importantly the climb could be completely closed for as long as required all the way from Govilon to the top as it only provides access to about 3 properties. It could be a real mini mountain finish and provide a real platform for a climber to take back time.


    'Ear, 'ear.
    Could make it into a proper Queen stage.
    They could easily include a Llangynidr Mountain loop. First time up to the Llangatock with that killer last km, turn off, down and back around, over the summit. 1 mile of flat, 4 miles of descent, 1 mile of flat, then
    the Tumble. 20kms of 6.5% average gradient in the last 40kms.
    Viola!
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • nweststeyn
    nweststeyn Posts: 1,574
    OldViola.jpg

    Why?
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Tee hee... Just spit coffee all over my iPad again,

    Anyway, queen stage should be down here in Devon my lovely
  • Really enjoyed it. Despite the rain there was some decent scenery and even with Wiggo pretty secure in the yellow jersey there was good racing.
  • Not challenging enough. Of course that's tricky as we don't have Alps in the UK, however the fact that the field regrouped in every stage means the climbs weren't tough enough.
  • RideOnTime
    RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    Not challenging enough. Of course that's tricky as we don't have Alps in the UK, however the fact that the field regrouped in every stage means the climbs weren't tough enough.

    More in Wales, more in Scotland.

    Less pander to masses.
  • Mikey23 wrote:
    Tee hee... Just spit coffee all over my iPad again,

    Anyway, queen stage should be down here in Devon my lovely


    YES, YES! I absolutely loved being at the top of Haytor on Friday, brilliant atmosphere, brilliant afternoon. And lunch at the Rock Inn beforehand - should be a fixed feature for the future :)
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Positives for the organisers is that they set the race up for a home Wiggo win, and got it. Allegedly great for general public, but made for some of the dullest racing for a long, long time. In fact my non-cycling family found the Vuelta stages far more interesting than the TOB.

    Also why waste the Caerphilly stage by putting the finish at the bottom of a big wide open drag? It just means it all comes back together, complete waste. They also need to sort out the spectators as you can't have interesting racing if you can't overtake.

    Oh well hopefully now they've got the winner they wanted this year, they can design a better course with no TT for next year.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Why no TT, Is a race only won well if it is won by a climber? There were 10 miles of TT, and hundreds of miles of other racing, If the boys dont come out to play its hardly the organisers or team Sky's fault.
  • Richj
    Richj Posts: 240
    the race was dull, but not sure the route was that bad. Team Sky turned up with a TdF strength squad and no one could put them under any pressure. The gulf between World Tour and the domestic pro's is huge so half the peleton just seemed to be hanging each stage and not being able to make a race of it. I know the squads were small but expected more from NetApp, UnitedHealthcare and Bardiani, Cannondale just seemed to be there for a training ride.
  • Gazzaputt
    Gazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    Richj wrote:
    the race was dull, but not sure the route was that bad. Team Sky turned up with a TdF strength squad and no one could put them under any pressure. The gulf between World Tour and the domestic pro's is huge so half the peloton just seemed to be hanging each stage and not being able to make a race of it. I know the squads were small but expected more from NetApp, UnitedHealthcare and Bardiani, Cannondale just seemed to be there for a training ride.

    2 stages won by British Cycling and An Post - Chainrection?

    Think that showed 2nd division teams were up for the job.
  • mmacavity wrote:
    Thanks for those - really interesting. That first stage (Morecambe to Glasgow) would have been brutal. Did I even see a few close-ups of someone using a singlespeed with a chain tensioner. They were hard back then. The little bit of Kendal & A6 in that haven't changed. Except more signs.
  • Gazzaputt wrote:
    Richj wrote:
    the race was dull, but not sure the route was that bad. Team Sky turned up with a TdF strength squad and no one could put them under any pressure. The gulf between World Tour and the domestic pro's is huge so half the peloton just seemed to be hanging each stage and not being able to make a race of it. I know the squads were small but expected more from NetApp, UnitedHealthcare and Bardiani, Cannondale just seemed to be there for a training ride.

    2 stages won by British Cycling and An Post - Chainrection?

    Think that showed 2nd division teams were up for the job.


    ^This. Plus 2 x 2nd places by AnPost. As for Cannondale, like OPQS they were there to contest the sprints. They werent interested in attacking Sky anymore than OPQS were. UHC lost Deignan on St 3, which seemed to throw their plans in the air a bit.
  • Richj
    Richj Posts: 240
    Gazzaputt wrote:
    Richj wrote:
    the race was dull, but not sure the route was that bad. Team Sky turned up with a TdF strength squad and no one could put them under any pressure. The gulf between World Tour and the domestic pro's is huge so half the peloton just seemed to be hanging each stage and not being able to make a race of it. I know the squads were small but expected more from NetApp, UnitedHealthcare and Bardiani, Cannondale just seemed to be there for a training ride.

    2 stages won by British Cycling and An Post - Chainrection?

    Think that showed 2nd division teams were up for the job.

    More meant taking the GC race to Sky, who seemed to have that battle easily won, yes fantastic performance by Yates and Bennett, didn't mean to take anything away from those individual performances
  • Really enjoyed it. I'd like to see them have 2 stages in Scotland though, or at least one further north one year and one in the Borders the next?
    At the erse end o' a coo!
  • Richj
    Richj Posts: 240
    Gazzaputt wrote:
    Richj wrote:
    the race was dull, but not sure the route was that bad. Team Sky turned up with a TdF strength squad and no one could put them under any pressure. The gulf between World Tour and the domestic pro's is huge so half the peloton just seemed to be hanging each stage and not being able to make a race of it. I know the squads were small but expected more from NetApp, UnitedHealthcare and Bardiani, Cannondale just seemed to be there for a training ride.

    2 stages won by British Cycling and An Post - Chainrection?

    Think that showed 2nd division teams were up for the job.


    ^This. Plus 2 x 2nd places by AnPost. As for Cannondale, like OPQS they were there to contest the sprints. They werent interested in attacking Sky anymore than OPQS were. UHC lost Deignan on St 3, which seemed to throw their plans in the air a bit.

    ^sort of my point, Sky were the only world tour team to really take on the GC battle as a team, for the race to be more exciting it didn't need more MTF (although that would have hepled Movistar) or lumpy stages but more WT squads.

    Hoping next year the ToB continues to grow as it has over the last few years and get more big squads.

    ps. I am not getting at any of our domestic riders who rode out of there skins, just trying to make the point of why I found it a bit dull
  • Mikey23 wrote:
    Tee hee... Just spit coffee all over my iPad again,

    Anyway, queen stage should be down here in Devon my lovely


    YES, YES! I absolutely loved being at the top of Haytor on Friday, brilliant atmosphere, brilliant afternoon. And lunch at the Rock Inn beforehand - should be a fixed feature for the future :)


    OK, you two can keep your Queen of the mole hills, cos I know something you don't know, RR. :wink:
    (and before you ask, this time I'm definitely not telling. Sorry)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Mikey23 wrote:
    Tee hee... Just spit coffee all over my iPad again,

    Anyway, queen stage should be down here in Devon my lovely


    YES, YES! I absolutely loved being at the top of Haytor on Friday, brilliant atmosphere, brilliant afternoon. And lunch at the Rock Inn beforehand - should be a fixed feature for the future :)


    OK, you two can keep your Queen of the mole hills, cos I know something you don't know, RR. :wink:
    (and before you ask, this time I'm definitely not telling. Sorry)


    You didnt tell me last time either! *sniffs*
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Saw it on highlights. Thought the stage through the lakes was excellent. The TT killed off the GC contest, as there were no challenging hills/stages to close the time gap. Not sure that a week long race requires a TT. Just my thought.
    Perhaps. Something nice about the ToB having a 10 miler though. It celebrates an important part of British cycling.

    ....and not really Wiggin's fault that over just 10 miles he can ruin the entire field.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Or perhaps the ToB could take a leaf from the TdF (although not this years) and leave the TT until the penultimate stage?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,646
    Daz555 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Saw it on highlights. Thought the stage through the lakes was excellent. The TT killed off the GC contest, as there were no challenging hills/stages to close the time gap. Not sure that a week long race requires a TT. Just my thought.
    Perhaps. Something nice about the ToB having a 10 miler though. It celebrates an important part of British cycling.

    ....and not really Wiggin's fault that over just 10 miles he can ruin the entire field.


    I agree with this

    I think its all part of the charm of ToB. Do all races have to polarise towards some-sort of optimised profile?

    10 mile tt in a safari park.... why not?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217
    People seem to automatically assume that hills = great racing but we have seen plenty of duds this year as any other year on hilly circuits. Conversely you can have fantastic racing on flat roads. It all comes down to how the riders decide to ride and no-one can design a route for the whims of the riders. Lasy year's ToB was very good and yet the course was no tougher (arguably it was easier) and whilst the TT ultimately made the difference a gain of just over 30 seconds isn't earth shattering. Wiggins could have been put under pressure second time up Caerphilly or going up Haytor as he had little support by then but in the end he was just too good for those that did try. Maybe stages 1 and 2 offered the better chances if he hadn't been prepared to take risks on the wet roads and others had.
  • Pross wrote:
    People seem to automatically assume that hills = great racing but we have seen plenty of duds this year as any other year on hilly circuits. Conversely you can have fantastic racing on flat roads. It all comes down to how the riders decide to ride and no-one can design a route for the whims of the riders. Lasy year's ToB was very good and yet the course was no tougher (arguably it was easier) and whilst the TT ultimately made the difference a gain of just over 30 seconds isn't earth shattering. Wiggins could have been put under pressure second time up Caerphilly or going up Haytor as he had little support by then but in the end he was just too good for those that did try. Maybe stages 1 and 2 offered the better chances if he hadn't been prepared to take risks on the wet roads and others had.


    A fair point. We are always too quick to blame the parcours. There are so many other variables at times...echelons anybody?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Blaming the winner of a race for being the best is always an odd outcome.

    I was glad to see a TdF winner turn up and ride to win. Likewise two other high profile WT pros in Martin and Quintana.
    I have a lot of time for Kristian House but I think the way he couldn't attack with the same ease as last year is indicative of a big step up in standard compared to last year.
    Classic races (or contests in any sport) aren't necessarily indicative of quality. They are a quirk of circumstances e.g. a thrilling attack one day results in a time loss the next. This is unpredictable and exciting. Dull races can be an indication of the high level of performance cancelling out the more flamboyant moments.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,646
    morstar wrote:
    Blaming the winner of a race for being the best is always an odd outcome.

    I was glad to see a TdF winner turn up and ride to win. Likewise two other high profile WT pros in Martin and Quintana.
    I have a lot of time for Kristian House but I think the way he couldn't attack with the same ease as last year is indicative of a big step up in standard compared to last year.
    Classic races (or contests in any sport) aren't necessarily indicative of quality. They are a quirk of circumstances e.g. a thrilling attack one day results in a time loss the next. This is unpredictable and exciting. Dull races can be an indication of the high level of performance cancelling out the more flamboyant moments.

    I tend to agree a higher standard of performance is no guarantee of excitement [often the opposite].

    As for this year Sky were mad strong but not without moments where they had to put in the work

    Elminger kept gaining time on wiggo
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • I think the fact theres even a thread on the tour of britian is great
    dull race or not at least weve got a tour of Britain after a long absence
    we need to support this race just like the Ciccle classic our own tour of flanders
    so all you knockers out there get behind it (no pun intended)