Stolen Bikes - isn't it about time.........

Team4Luke
Team4Luke Posts: 597
edited September 2013 in Road general
we had a Log Book for all bikes new and old, exactly same process as we have for vehicles, you can't sell or buy without, I can't see why not even DVLC could administer it, all set up already really. Personally don't mind paying a fee or even having a cycling licence, whatever but we do need to stop our bikes being stolen left right and centre and appearing on websites.
Unfortunately it might create some jobs and I know the UK doesn't like people in work. :roll:
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Comments

  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Agree with the sentiment but then you know what will come next. BIKE TAX!!!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    And then you'd need number plates or similar on bikes - extra costs etc....
    I dont know many people who have had their bikes nicked so I dont think its as bad as you say it is ?
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,535
    The fee is going to end up being say £20 a year - might be worth the peace of mind if you've got a £2000 carbon fibre superbike but what about all the £50 beater bikes you see knocking about - I have 3 at home that I wouldn't bother registering as the cost of the log book would end up being as much as the bike.

    Stolen bikes would still get sold in pubs by theives anyway and the police would never have time to respond to every report of a bike being sold on gumtree without a log book so the system would fall apart within a week.
  • Team4Luke
    Team4Luke Posts: 597
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 3,954
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase

    Do you think it's random when thieves break into a shed containing expensive bikes?
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    Its ever so slightly easier to strip a bike down and bin the frame than it is a car. What is needed is to go after people who don't care about buying stolen goods.
  • BrandonA
    BrandonA Posts: 553
    You can do hits to a certain level already. My bike has an RFID chip and its details are registered with bikeregister. If I ever sell the bike I have to complete a change of ownership form. If it is stolen the police can check the RFID chip and contact me as my details are registered.
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,535
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase

    I think there are around 3.5 million bikes sold a year in the UK, lets call that 35 million bikes knocking around in the UK - a lot of them are sitting unused in sheds or are owned by 12 year olds - do you think they'll all get registered?

    If tomorrow you brought in compulsory registration of bikes, half the bikes out there wouldn't get registered (probably including at least one of mine). If 50% (or even 10%) of bikes aren't registered then what is the value of the system?

    The police aren't going to waste their time checking bikes against the register anyway and people buying nicked bikes from Greenwhich market aren't going to be bothered that they don't have the correct paperwork.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    BrandonA wrote:
    You can do hits to a certain level already. My bike has an RFID chip and its details are registered with bikeregister. If I ever sell the bike I have to complete a change of ownership form.
    Sensible ...
    BrandonA wrote:
    If it is stolen the police can check the RFID chip and contact me as my details are registered.
    Ah - but they have to find it first ...
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    Good idea but in reality it will never happen due to the cost element.

    To set up and administrate a system like this would cost a fortune and whats the value in having all this technology to protect somebody that has a bike bought for £10 from a bootfair ?

    I dont know this for sure but i would guess that across the UK there are more bikes worth under £200 than there are worth over £200.

    Yes it probably would work if everybody cared for their bikes like most people on this forum but in reality most people dont
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • Team4Luke
    Team4Luke Posts: 597
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase

    Do you think it's random when thieves break into a shed containing expensive bikes?


    yes absolutely. These low life of which many are around our streets these days, just happen to see you cycling home, or you have your garage open with bikes on view or see you on your bike and follow you in their car home. Easy pickings every time. And let's face it we have all been riding home/driving home with bikes on roof rack for year upon year (online strava/GC/FB all aiding to this a bit too) with a thought about who is watching us, and simply we have been identified as an easy opportunity available.
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • Team4Luke
    Team4Luke Posts: 597
    BrandonA wrote:
    You can do hits to a certain level already. My bike has an RFID chip and its details are registered with bikeregister. If I ever sell the bike I have to complete a change of ownership form. If it is stolen the police can check the RFID chip and contact me as my details are registered.


    that doesn't stop it being stolen or re-purchased
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • Team4Luke
    Team4Luke Posts: 597
    monkimark wrote:
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase

    I think there are around 3.5 million bikes sold a year in the UK, lets call that 35 million bikes knocking around in the UK - a lot of them are sitting unused in sheds or are owned by 12 year olds - do you think they'll all get registered?

    If tomorrow you brought in compulsory registration of bikes, half the bikes out there wouldn't get registered (probably including at least one of mine). If 50% (or even 10%) of bikes aren't registered then what is the value of the system?

    The police aren't going to waste their time checking bikes against the register anyway and people buying nicked bikes from Greenwhich market aren't going to be bothered that they don't have the correct paperwork.

    Compulsory Registration Upon Sale
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • Team4Luke
    Team4Luke Posts: 597
    Tjgoodhew wrote:
    Good idea but in reality it will never happen due to the cost element.

    To set up and administrate a system like this would cost a fortune and whats the value in having all this technology to protect somebody that has a bike bought for £10 from a bootfair ?

    I dont know this for sure but i would guess that across the UK there are more bikes worth under £200 than there are worth over £200.

    Yes it probably would work if everybody cared for their bikes like most people on this forum but in reality most people dont


    minimal value for registration then
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 3,954
    Team4Luke wrote:
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase

    Do you think it's random when thieves break into a shed containing expensive bikes?


    yes absolutely. These low life of which many are around our streets these days, just happen to see you cycling home, or you have your garage open with bikes on view or see you on your bike and follow you in their car home. Easy pickings every time. And let's face it we have all been riding home/driving home with bikes on roof rack for year upon year (online strava/GC/FB all aiding to this a bit too) with a thought about who is watching us, and simply we have been identified as an easy opportunity available.

    Hmmn, my definition of a random break-in is where they aren't sure what's inside, if they know then it's targeted...which is what you've described.
  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    Bad idea. The thin end of the wedge. Next it will be mandatory for cyclists to wear helmets.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Having reflected on this, I believe some kind of electronic chip system would be good. Something that can be hidden inside the frame by the manufacturer and then activated for a fee. I'd guess weight wise it would only be a couple of grams.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Having reflected on this, I believe some kind of electronic chip system would be good. Something that can be hidden inside the frame by the manufacturer and then activated for a fee. I'd guess weight wise it would only be a couple of grams.
    like is available at bikeregister ?- already mentioned earlier in this thread ...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    How would that work ? Would police stop every bike and scan just on the offchance ?
  • wheezee
    wheezee Posts: 461
    This is a good idea for buying and selling used bikes. It takes some of the stress out of worrying about buying a stolen bike, anyway:

    http://londoncycleexchange.com
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase
    I asked DVLA about this a few years ago and they said that it is not possible to "bolt on" a section in
    their database for bikes. A completely new one would have to be planned (ie what data should it hold),
    project managed or tendered for. It would cost a hell of a lot of money for a system similar to the one
    they have for cars.

    Then consider little Johnny and Mary who get a bike for xmas. Are they supposed to register
    their bikes with DVLA?
  • cougie wrote:
    How would that work ? Would police stop every bike and scan just on the offchance ?

    no because we are trying to prevent the theft and sale on in the first instance - because they can not steal or sell on without a log book.
    And, well Police can randomly check cars on their database no reason they don't scan a bike with a hand scanner just the same as they stopped a rider recently because his attire did not match the high value looking bike he was riding.
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • De Sisti wrote:
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase
    I asked DVLA about this a few years ago and they said that it is not possible to "bolt on" a section in
    their database for bikes. A completely new one would have to be planned (ie what data should it hold),
    project managed or tendered for. It would cost a hell of a lot of money for a system similar to the one
    they have for cars.

    Then consider little Johnny and Mary who get a bike for xmas. Are they supposed to register
    their bikes with DVLA?

    well they make money from the system otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, no reason it can not be funded from the licence holder for the bike.
    and No, would be a minimal value aimed at say £500 minimum new value, below that could just be voluntary for peace of mind.
    Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    What's wrong with noting the frame number of your bike and letting the Police know it if the bike is stolen? Any bike without a frame number is likely to be stolen.
  • BrandonA wrote:
    You can do hits to a certain level already. My bike has an RFID chip and its details are registered with bikeregister. If I ever sell the bike I have to complete a change of ownership form. If it is stolen the police can check the RFID chip and contact me as my details are registered.

    They can check but do they?
    ISTR a TV program year ago or so ago where the investigator scanned bikes which were up for Bumblebee auction as recovered stolen but no owner traced. A few had RFID chips but no one had bothered to scan them. Red faces all round.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Team4Luke wrote:
    De Sisti wrote:
    Team4Luke wrote:
    current car system hasn't fallen apart, will never stop the organised crime but it's the random nicking from our property/shed seems to be on the increase
    I asked DVLA about this a few years ago and they said that it is not possible to "bolt on" a section in
    their database for bikes. A completely new one would have to be planned (ie what data should it hold),
    project managed or tendered for. It would cost a hell of a lot of money for a system similar to the one
    they have for cars.

    Then consider little Johnny and Mary who get a bike for xmas. Are they supposed to register
    their bikes with DVLA?

    well they make money from the system otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, no reason it can not be funded from the licence holder for the bike.
    and No, would be a minimal value aimed at say £500 minimum new value, below that could just be voluntary for peace of mind.

    Is that £500 for the whole bike ? What if you buy it in parts - there would be no logbook so you could sell it on without ?

    Would the logbook be used for groupsets/ frames/wheels ? If not people would just strip them down and sell on as parts surely ?
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    GiantMike wrote:
    What's wrong with noting the frame number of your bike and letting the Police know it if the bike is stolen? Any bike without a frame number is likely to be stolen.

    I ordered a titanium from China and built it up into a nice bike. However, the frame didn't come with a frame number.
    :(
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    Team4Luke wrote:
    well they make money from the system otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, no reason it can not be funded from the licence holder for the bike.
    and No, would be a minimal value aimed at say £500 minimum new value, below that could just be voluntary for peace of mind.
    Sorry mate, not sure what you're trying to say there. Can you clarify?
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    Its pretty expensive to pay 500 lazy IT contractors to design a database on an archaic mainframe platform that meets the functional requirements of randomly loosing data, corrupting records, and passing personal information to criminals. A normal database however with the owner details and bike details on a secure platform would cost very little. I doubt it would be more than about 5-6GB in size for 10M bikes, if structured properly.

    The problem is a bike is not easy to define - since its a collection of parts without unique serial numbers
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    diy wrote:
    Its pretty expensive to pay 500 lazy IT contractors to design a database on an archaic mainframe platform that meets the functional requirements of randomly loosing data, corrupting records, and passing personal information to criminals. A normal database however with the owner details and bike details on a secure platform would cost very little. I doubt it would be more than about 5-6GB in size for 10M bikes, if structured properly.

    The problem is a bike is not easy to define - since its a collection of parts without unique serial numbers

    I share your pain DIY, but I've worked in Government procurement and the solution isn't as easy as
    someone saying: "Oh, let's have a database of cycles and their owner's details". I'm afraid you can't
    just have an excel spreadsheet with those details. Just accept the fact that it's complicated, bureaucratic,
    and isn't about to happen anytime soon.