Tingling Toes

housemunkey

For a little while now I've been getting numb toes and haven't been able to pinpoint what it is. Just recently with the warm weather the issue seemed to have gone away and then today it was back down to mid teens and the numb toes are back!!! Another factor I've noticed is how hard I'm pushing, the more beans I'm giving it, the worse the issue gets. However as soon as I stop, it takes only a minute or so for all the feeling to come back.

Does anyone else suffer from numb toes even when the weather doesn't seem to be that cold? Are there any socks to help with the issues, windproof ones perhaps? Or is this maybe more to do with the shoes themselves? Or cleat setup?

My shoes are 2012 specialized road pro's. I bought the blue insoles for more support after standing on their pad to show how much arch your foot has, but this doesn't seem to have made a difference. The only thing that has made a difference lately has been the nice weather.

Would really appreciate your help on the issue and what I can get to try and remedy it.

turnerjohn

check the cleat location (ball of the foot) and rotation.
I found the specialized inserts actually made my feet worse...I'm better off with normal (unsupported) sidi insoles. I got "hot spots" in certain shoes I had...not in others...its almost a case of trying a few to find which fit properly

swede54

Shoes too tight? Your feet will swell when they get hot so loosen the shoes.

mfin

Specialized Insoles have that metatarsal button in them, some people don't get on with it at all, although most do as you don't often get people mentioning changing the insoles in Spesh shoes for other ones.

But, if you are looking for insoles which seem to feel the closest to Spesh ones but without the metatarsal button then Superfeet Yellow's are as as close as you'll get.

But, to eliminate the expensive experiment, why not get some insoles out of some trainers if you have some, put them in and ride with them a couple of times, just to see if the lack of metatarsal button seems to stop the numbness. If the experiment works, superfeet yellows is a possible fix.

This is all a bit of thinking out loud, dunno if it helps.

housemunkey

Thanks for the replies guys.

Insoles were on my list of things to try, but could I just be getting cold toes with wind chill? The spesh shoes do let a big old draft through. It just seems odd that the issue almost completely vanished while it was really warm.

chrisaonabike

FWIW, this seems very similar to my experience. During the hot weather, I've been fine except for my left big toe which tends to go numb during extended efforts. Now that it's cooler, it goes numb quicker. Last winter, more of my left foot went numb, despite overshoes, and some of my right foot too. The pain was agonising at times, though it didn't seem to do any lasting damage.

I really can't believe it's wind chill yet.

housemunkey

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

FWIW, this seems very similar to my experience. During the hot weather, I've been fine except for my left big toe which tends to go numb during extended efforts. Now that it's cooler, it goes numb quicker. Last winter, more of my left foot went numb, despite overshoes, and some of my right foot too. The pain was agonising at times, though it didn't seem to do any lasting damage.

I really can't believe it's wind chill yet.

I assume you haven't found a cure either?

I've got some running trainers and just popped those insoles into my cycling shoes. Hopefully I'll get a ride tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

Also I've just realised, another little bit of evidence for wind chill is that I don't ever recall having the issue whilst on the turbo.....

doug5_10

Toe covers until overshoe weather starts?

housemunkey

doug5_10 wrote:

Toe covers until overshoe weather starts?

Could be worth a shout, I feel a bit of a wally needing toe covers when it's mid teens though. But perhaps that's just what my toes need???

chrisaonabike

HouseMunkey wrote:

I assume you haven't found a cure either?

Nope

HouseMunkey wrote:

Also I've just realised, another little bit of evidence for wind chill is that I don't ever recall having the issue whilst on the turbo.....

And a little bit of evidence against it (for me at least), is the localisation of the numbness.

Why just my left foot? Why just my big toe (at the moment)? Generally I have pretty good circulation, and I'm still padding around barefoot at home with no discomfort.

My hypothesis (totally evidence-free so far) is that it's not just a cold thing, it's an asymmetric pressure thing as well. So that somehow, I'm restricting the circulation to parts of my foot, with either my shoe setup or something else. Cold makes it worse, since obviously once the blood flow is restricted, the extremities won't be being warmed by the blood as much.

But if it wasn't restricted, maybe it would be fine.

housemunkey

That is a good point, the similarities in our situation continue to grow. The difference being my issue is more in my right big toe. The longer I leave the feeling without taking a minutes break (as I mentioned previously this sorts it), the more the numbness spreads through my other toes and I eventually start to feel it in my left foot as well.

Anyone else like me and Chris have this issue and found a decent solution?

chrisaonabike

As a slight side note, my OH has taken up cycling recently and although she's got some shoes and SPD pedals, she hasn't made the transition to clipless yet - she's currently riding on flats and wearing trainers. Now that we're doing slightly longer rides (20-40 miles) both her feet are going numb. Given that she trained for a marathon all through last winter and didn't suffer from cold or numb feet at all, again I think it's unlikely to be just temperature related. My feeling is that it's a similar issue - something about the way she's holding her feet is restricting the circulation.

She'll be switching to clipless very soon, so I'll report back.

on-yer-bike

Try moving your cleats back as far as they will go.

housemunkey

Quick report from tonights ride, quite chilly and the issue was just even worse. The running shoe insoles made no difference at all and they are a lot less supportive of my foot arch so should my feet should have a totally different pressure distribution.

Anyway as people have said this could be all manner of things mounting up on top of eachother and like you say Chris, the cold might just make it worse.

Never the less I'm going to try a toe cap to try and stop the wind. Can anyone recommend a good one? Also has anyone got some good windproof socks? I thought I saw some assos ones but can't really remember. Seen as this is in the buying advice section I would really appreciate peoples recommendations.

Also as a side note, can anyone explain what the Specialized metatarsal button actually is on their insoles???

housemunkey

on-yer-bike wrote:

Try moving your cleats back as far as they will go.

Is this to move the pressure point from the pedalling action back away from your toes???

doug5_10

HouseMunkey wrote:

Quick report from tonights ride, quite chilly and the issue was just even worse. The running shoe insoles made no difference at all and they are a lot less supportive of my foot arch so should my feet should have a totally different pressure distribution.

Anyway as people have said this could be all manner of things mounting up on top of eachother and like you say Chris, the cold might just make it worse.

Never the less I'm going to try a toe cap to try and stop the wind. Can anyone recommend a good one? Also has anyone got some good windproof socks? I thought I saw some assos ones but can't really remember. Seen as this is in the buying advice section I would really appreciate peoples recommendations.

Also as a side note, can anyone explain what the Specialized metatarsal button actually is on their insoles???

Castelli Toe Thingy for me does the job http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/overshoes-castelli-toe-thingy/castzosh101

Wiggle have a DHB one for a few quid as well

Steve236

HouseMunkey wrote:

That is a good point, the similarities in our situation continue to grow. The difference being my issue is more in my right big toe. The longer I leave the feeling without taking a minutes break (as I mentioned previously this sorts it), the more the numbness spreads through my other toes and I eventually start to feel it in my left foot as well.

Anyone else like me and Chris have this issue and found a decent solution?

A bit late to this thread so sorry but I'm wondering if either of you have made any breakthroughs with this issue as it sounds very similar to what I experience (one or two toes involved, gets worse when pushing harder, worse in the cold last winter, relieved after a minutes break)??

I've tried cleats across the complete range of their movement with no luck. I've tried thick socks, thin socks, pushing toes forward in shoes, pushing heel to the back. My most recent attempt to address it has been cleat wedges to raise the inner part of the shoe - maybe some improvement but certainly not a complete cure.

I'm thinking of different shoes (currently using Shimano R106s) but very reluctant to spend a lot to find that hasn't worked either.

blinddrew

I find I just have to be very careful about how tightly I do up my shoes. They've got three velcro straps and if I do the middle or end one just slightly too tight I start getting a numb and painful feet. Generally I keep the one nearest the ankle nice and tight and have the others really lose.
It's more noticeable in the winter wearing thicker socks.

housemunkey

Steve236 wrote:

HouseMunkey wrote:

That is a good point, the similarities in our situation continue to grow. The difference being my issue is more in my right big toe. The longer I leave the feeling without taking a minutes break (as I mentioned previously this sorts it), the more the numbness spreads through my other toes and I eventually start to feel it in my left foot as well.

Anyone else like me and Chris have this issue and found a decent solution?

A bit late to this thread so sorry but I'm wondering if either of you have made any breakthroughs with this issue as it sounds very similar to what I experience (one or two toes involved, gets worse when pushing harder, worse in the cold last winter, relieved after a minutes break)??

I've tried cleats across the complete range of their movement with no luck. I've tried thick socks, thin socks, pushing toes forward in shoes, pushing heel to the back. My most recent attempt to address it has been cleat wedges to raise the inner part of the shoe - maybe some improvement but certainly not a complete cure.

I'm thinking of different shoes (currently using Shimano R106s) but very reluctant to spend a lot to find that hasn't worked either.

Haven't come up with a solution annoyingly. Just recently I have also played with the cleats fully forward and fully backwards, can't say it made any difference. I have to concede that it can't just be the wind or cold as I thought before as I went out at the weekend with toe covers on; feet were plenty warm but eventually still happened as always.

One thing I have noticed and tried on my ride today is that I always rest on my right foot when not pedalling. So I tried to be more balanced about where I placed my weight when not pedalling and had my left foot down and under some pressure as well. This definitely helped, but it doesn't help when I have long periods of pedalling such as long climbs.

I've considered different shoes as well but as you say, thats an expensive way to find out it makes no difference.

I'm almost becoming resigned to the fact my feet weren't made for cycling. But this winter I have some much better overshoes etc so hopefully my feet being warmer will make it more bearable.

Any ideas people have are still very welcome.

mfin

Don't muck about moving cleats to the extreme of forward or backwards. Learn how to get them positioned properly. If it is above you then ask someone who knows how it should be done who can work it out with you. If they give you some crap vague response to you wanting your cleats setup properly rather than them actually knowing how to go about it then accuse them of verbal diarrhoea.

Don't go slamming cleats fully forward or backward on a whim, that's retarded. It's unbelievable how many people approach bike fit using methods that are so unscientific. It's hard to believe these people can even program a microwave oven to 'cook' the average bland pasta 'meal' with this kind of approach to basic logic let alone perform a bike fit.

housemunkey

My cleats were originally set up after a bike fit, you know knees above the pedal axle and all that. I'm not dumb you know. My shoes have positioning numbers on the bottom so I've then experimented with the cleats in various positions trying to provoke a different feeling in my toes (increased and decreased pressure) but to no avail. It wasn't on a whim, there was plenty of thought behind it.

It wouldn't be much good me coming on here moaning my toes go numb and then declaring it can't be the cleats so I wont try changing anything. The whole idea was experimentation, you have to try something new to learn anything.

In any case, not everyone falls into scientific bike fit models. There is never a 'correct' way, only a way that works for each individual person, we aren't robots. You might want to think about that before assuming people are going around like idiots not thinking of what they are doing.

Steve236

Identifying a variable (cleat position) that is likely in the causal pathway to a downstream effect (toe tingling) and testing it at different values within its limits to observe the relationship to said downstream effect is actually the basis of the scientific method. Placing all your faith in a self-appointed expert or witch doctor as they would be called in some parts, isn't.

Edit: or what housemunkey just said

on-yer-bike

The distance of the cleat in the middle and cleat right back isnt that much. And it would give a more pronounced effect than messing about with 1 or 2mm. It can then be nudged forward to see what happens. I get numb toes and having the cleats back helped although not entirely. I just accept it now and loosen off my shoes.

Anyway, try looking on Steve Hogg's website for some help.

housemunkey

Cheers gents, some people with sense.

Guanajuato

Just a bit from my experiences. Moving the cleat further back helped delay the onset of numbness (20+ miles before it became an issue). Raising my saddle a little put it off a bit more, so I could do 30-off miles. Tried some 'shock absorbing' insoles, but they made it worse. I've now put in some ultra-cheapy thin insoles and they seem to have fixed it. Absolutely no numbness in my 63 mile AdventureCross at the weekend.
That all points to the shoe being a little tight I guess. But happy now. Only taken the best part of 6 months to get it sorted.

Tjgoodhew

My toe discomfort was actually caused by doing my shoes up too tight - i have a ratchet fastner and was pretty much cranking it up as tight as it would go

I tried everything before somebody suggested that to me including moving my cleats into so many different positions which then caused knee pain. I have now marked on my ratchet exactly the point i need to tighten to

Im sure this has already been considered but may help others