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New Scott CR1 Pro manufacturing defect

ts295ts295 Posts: 30
edited July 2013 in Road buying advice
Hi chaps,
Just bought a scott CR1 pro frame from westbrook cycles and unfortunately it's got a paint defect on the downtube:
1B6C0210_zpse7434b49.jpg

Westbrook say:
"The marks you see are typical of the finish on the IMP HMF frames and they all look this way in certain light conditions. They are not painted cosmetically to save weight to cover this so some frames can look this way. Of course if you are not happy with this then of course, please return for a refund."

Thoughts? I'm not convinced, I don't think 'certain light conditions' have anything to do with the issue which I see as a manufacturing defect. I thought about the frame and if I were selling it with that on it second hand I'd feel I'd have to tell the buyer and have to adjust the price accordingly, so I don't see why I should accept it on a brand new frame. Scott aren't interested in giving an opinion or looking at the photos, both their customer services and warranty depts have just advised me that they'll only speak to the shop.
so looks like it's going back for a refund...
Cheers,
Tim

Posts

  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    Most carbon frames have this kind of marbling unless they have been painted over or a weave has been added as a cosmetic top layer.

    If it really bothers you then send it back but it's not faulty and you are likely to find it on other bikes too.
  • ts295ts295 Posts: 30
    Fair enough. I've an old Giant TCR and a 2009 Felt DA, both of which are naked carbon and neither of which have anything like this - I did wonder about it, the frame's clearly finished, prob with paint, it's not just lacquered , you can see right at the top of the seat tube where the spray's a bit too sparing.
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Few things. First of all this sort of thing is quite common with matte finished frames (I have matte as well as painted Scotts). Scott is incredibly weight conscious with their entire painting and finishing process. As a result some of the finishes can look a bit odd (take a look at the painted Foil thread from a few days ago). What you see is entirely cosmetic and will in no way affect the ride or quality of the frame.

    Saying that you would have to adjust the price if selling second-hand is rich considering that you bought a 1300 pound frame for 500 quid. Looking for a price adjustment? There it is. You can buy a Ribble or some other OEM'd brand and get a nice painted finish, but the price you pay is a generally rubbish bike with low-grade carbon.

    Westbrook has offered you a full refund if you're not happy, so by going direct through Scott you're essentially asking for a free-bee which won't happen. This is even more evident when you consider that Westbrook was able to pick up a load of CR1 frames and blow them out at amazing prices because it is the end of life for the model line (replaced by the Solace).

    When shops sell demo frames with cosmetic damage you'll typically only get 20-30% off (occasionally you may see up to 50%), so 65% off for one that is brand new is a bargain regardless of which way you slice it.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ts295ts295 Posts: 30
    I think you misunderstand, I'm not looking for any kind of freebee, I'm just saying that I'd not accept this on a second hand frame and imagine if I were selling the frame I would have to adjust the price because of this, so I don't think it's reasonable on a new frame. Obviously I'm looking for opinions as it does bother me and I wouldn't buy a second hand frame like this.
  • styxdstyxd Posts: 3,234
    ts295 wrote:
    I think you misunderstand, I'm not looking for any kind of freebee, I'm just saying that I'd not accept this on a second hand frame and imagine if I were selling the frame I would have to adjust the price because of this, so I don't think it's reasonable on a new frame. Obviously I'm looking for opinions as it does bother me and I wouldn't buy a second hand frame like this.

    I think you've misunderstood the posts above yours.
  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    This is at risk of turning into a flaming thread

    The opinion you will get on here is that the frame is not in any way faulty and this is pretty common with carbon fibre

    Distance selling regs say that you can send the frame back at your own expense for a refund if you don't like it.

    No drama, just send it back if you don't like it.
  • DownTiderDownTider Posts: 6
    This is a Defect in the layup it has been sanded down to remove buildup material that shouldn't be there!!
    It could be a wrinkle in material very hard to remove in layup process must easier to do after material is cured hard
    Or it could be a number of other things minor and only cosmetic!!
    But the facts are it has be ground down so the matrial that's been ground off is missing somewhere else!
    And it's not very professional of them to let a defect like this through Quality controll
    You pay top $$ for something you expect it to be perfect it will always be on your mind thinking how much nicer it be if it was perfect

    This is my job making very lightweight parts for F1 race cars from carbon. If it was me I Would demand a replacement
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I can only say that my Pro frame doesn't look like that. However there are what look like creases etc where the reflectivity is slightly different. They don't concern me.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    This isn't a defect - it is how unidirectional carbon looks when unpainted. I have an SL version of this frame. The maintubes are mostly unpainted carbon with the tube junctions painted matt black. The joins are hard to see except where there are seams or patterns in the finish of the carbon as here.

    This sort of thread turns up on here every so often - usually about Focus bikes or Boardmans. If you don't like this effect go for painted or woven carbon.
    Grill wrote:
    There it is. You can buy a Ribble or some other OEM'd brand and get a nice painted finish, but the price you pay is a generally rubbish bike with low-grade carbon.

    Oh, don't spoil an otherwise good response with misguided faffle! :wink:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,518
    Why do you think that they gave them away, there's got to be a reason for selling them off at that price. If you had an issue with a £3000 colnago then you've got reason to complain but a £500 Scott... I was grateful that it was in 1 piece and not a self build.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Bozman wrote:
    Why do you think that they gave them away, there's got to be a reason for selling them off at that price. If you had an issue with a £3000 colnago then you've got reason to complain but a £500 Scott... I was grateful that it was in 1 piece and not a self build.

    Yes, there is - the CR1 is being replaced by a new model. Do you honestly think that Scott are going to trash their reputation by flooding the market with seconds that aren't described as such with all the court cases that that would generate?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,623
    This has the potential to become a belter of a thread - keep it up folks :lol:
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    To be fair to the OP I think it looks more like a slight fault in the paint finish than naked carbon effects.

    Wouldn't bother me, but it clearly does you otherwise you would be riding the thing instead of posting on here.

    So your choice is return it for a refund or keep it. Have Westbrooks got more of the same size?

    I don't think the finish on my CR1-SL is cosmetically perfect, but it rides like a dream, and knowing it only cost £500 is the cherry on the cake.
  • styxdstyxd Posts: 3,234
    In terms of aesthetics, I think a defect in the paint is the last thing new Scott owners should be looking to sort. Huge stacks of stem spacers and uncut steerer tubes would be first on my list.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    styxd wrote:
    In terms of aesthetics, I think a defect in the paint is the last thing new Scott owners should be looking to sort. Huge stacks of stem spacers and uncut steerer tubes would be first on my list.

    Christ, if you need a stack of spacers on a CR1 you've seriously bought the wrong size or you're building a shopping bike!
  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,518
    styxd wrote:
    In terms of aesthetics, I think a defect in the paint is the last thing new Scott owners should be looking to sort. Huge stacks of stem spacers and uncut steerer tubes would be first on my list.

    You shouldn't really need any spacers with the relaxed geometry, a 5mm one will keep Scott happy and make the bike look like a road bike rather than a Raleigh shopper.
  • GazzaputtGazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    I have a CR1 SL and the finish is the same.

    It is not a defect.
  • Makes sense now why they are selling them cheap, thanks for the heads-up OP
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • d10brpd10brp Posts: 70
    No marks on my CR1 Pro here, but I'll probably end up leaving worse than that in the first 500 miles.
    Scott CR1 Pro
    Specialized Secteur Elite
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Yup, the council started their infernal road resurfacing work the day before I finished building mine! Half my local routes are off-limits till they come back and hoover it for the second time. Grr!
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Makes sense now why they are selling them cheap, thanks for the heads-up OP

    Except that's not why they're selling them cheap. Check my last post for actual reason.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • kmackdcikmackdci Posts: 79
    I ordered one today and will get it Tomo, will post up how up it looks but at 450 quid I don't think I'm going to be complaining.
    Giant defy 4. Sram force group and hope pro3 mavic open pro. 8.9kgs
    Specialized P3 2000
    Scott scale 60 custom
  • styxd wrote:
    In terms of aesthetics, I think a defect in the paint is the last thing new Scott owners should be looking to sort. Huge stacks of stem spacers and uncut steerer tubes would be first on my list.

    :lol:
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • denniskwokdenniskwok Posts: 339
    Here is a pic of my Cayo Evo 6.0. The black areas are unpainted UD carbon fibre.

    IMAG1204_zpsfe495b96.jpg
  • tonye_ntonye_n Posts: 832
    Just can't see what issue the OP can have with the reply from Westbrook Cycles.
    Even if you're not inclined to accept it as a non-defect, the 'no quibble' offer to return for a refund seems beyond complaint.

    If they do not believe that it is a defect. Then they aren't gonna replace.
    If you are in anyway unhappy with the product, then you are entitled to a refund if requested within a reasonable period of time. Westbrook have offered you a refund.

    What exactly were you hopping for?
  • blinddrewblinddrew Posts: 317
    It's hard to tell from the photo if that's an effect of an area being smoothed away or if that's actually air bubbles under the laquer? The latter might be slightly concerning. But if they've offered a refund or swap then go for that - cost of postage vs peace of mind and happy riding?
    Music, beer, sport, repeat...
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    tonye_n wrote:
    If you are in anyway unhappy with the product, then you are entitled to a refund if requested within a reasonable period of time.

    Legally you aren't entitled to anything if the item isn't faulty and it's gone beyond the 7 days allowed under the distance selling regs.
  • kmackdcikmackdci Posts: 79
    Got mine today and there is not a single mark like that. Cracking looking frame and bloody light lol.
    Giant defy 4. Sram force group and hope pro3 mavic open pro. 8.9kgs
    Specialized P3 2000
    Scott scale 60 custom
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Purely cosmetic, but staggers me that people feel they have sort of right to recompense because it doesn't look right? Of course, being of naked finish, leaving it out in the rain will result in all sorts of problems ;-)
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • kmackdci wrote:
    Got mine today and there is not a single mark like that. Cracking looking frame and bloody light lol.

    Where is the crack on this one?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
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