Sora vs Tiagra vs 105
biggy7
Posts: 17
hi
for a relativity newbie to road cycling, how much difference is there between these groupsets?
does the increase of cost make up for the performance?
for a relativity newbie to road cycling, how much difference is there between these groupsets?
does the increase of cost make up for the performance?
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Of course the answer is "it depends". If you're racing then yes, if you aren't racing, then probably not. But then, we are all racing in some way, aren't we
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yeh sorry, i realised it was quite an open ended question
maybe on day il get chance to ride with all 3 to truly compare them lol0 -
Each is better than the other of course, in shifting, stiffness and weight.
If you ask which one should you choose, well the best is Dura Ace, then you work backwards depending on what you can actually afford.0 -
Only one of those three has concealed cabling, and that would easily be my choice.
Some people on here will say 2300 is great, but for me Shimano gears start at 105
With 105 you get 10 speed (so your ratios are closer even with a possibly large sprocket) and no cables oddly sprouting out of the hoods.
If the bike has 105 brakes, so much the better too. Stick some Swisstop green pads in whichever brakes it has.0 -
The main difference between the 3 is cost and marketing.
If you press the shifter on any of them they (if adjusted properly) will move the derailleur and put the chain onto a difference cog. Will they make you a better biker, No. Will they improve your athletic ability, No. Will they make your bike go faster, No. Will they make your pocket lighter, Yes.
Don't get me wrong spending money on pricier gruppo does show your commitment to cycling but it won't make you perform any better.0 -
Im firmly in the 2300 is great bracket and run it on 2 bikes.first bike was just that my first bike and I knew no difference,and 2nd bike is my winter/main bike and I got it with 2300 because I have never missed a gear or dropped the chain or had any issues with 2300.It has been 100% reliable.
My best bike has much better set up on it money wise and is 10 speed but I can honestly say it doesn,t knock the socks of 2300 at all.
Basically they should all work faultlessly and personally its a case of get what you like and can afford,but don't get sucked into the "I need XYZ" to be a good cyclist.Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori0 -
elderone wrote:Basically they should all work faultlessly and personally its a case of get what you like and can afford,but don't get sucked into the "I need XYZ" to be a good cyclist.
Spot on. If you maintain and have the gears indexed correctly then it's all good, whatever groupset you decide on!0 -
FWIW I couldn't really tell much difference between Tiagra and 105 in terms of shifting when I test rode a Giant Defy 3 (Tiagra) and a Defy 1 (105).
Obviously the cables under the tape looks nicer, but it'll be a lot more faffing to maintain if it needs the cabling removed.
The only annoyance I have is that the cables get in the way of the front light beams a bit. But they're so bright that I expect it makes sod all diffrerence.
Quite jealous of my OH's Ultegra, but that's another story...Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
Underbar cable routing really detracts from the quality of shifting. That's why I'd say Tiagra is the best out of the three as it's 10 speed and should have the best shifting. If neat cables are the overriding factor then go for 105.0
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thescouselander wrote:Underbar cable routing really detracts from the quality of shifting. That's why I'd say Tiagra is the best out of the three as it's 10 speed and should have the best shifting. If neat cables are the overriding factor then go for 105.
+1... if the new 10 speed Tiagra is the old 105.0 -
great responses guys, many thanks
ive read Sora 3500 2013 is infact same as Tiagra 2011, is this true? (no thumb button)
ive just bought this bike: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moser-bikes-speed-sora-2013/
then i started to read about groupsets and now worried i made a mistake buying sora groupset
im only a beginner but am a firm believer of buying good value/quality product from the start instead of later on but my budget is max £500 at the moment, have i made a good choice?0 -
Yes don't worry, the current Sora is a good choice.0
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I completed a JOGLE earlier this year on a bike equipped with SORA 3500 and it didn't cause any problems. No missed gears, no problems braking etc.
SORA will be fine.
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I've had bikes with 2300, Sora, Tiagra and 105, admittedly from different years and I have to say there is a clear increase in performance at most levels. Sora used to have (still has?) the little thumb level rather than the lever behind the brake lever as others which some people don't like and Sora definitely didn't have the "feel" of Tiagra or 105, it has a less definite feel to it. I found that front shifting with Tiagra was a bit more clunky than in 105 and 105 requires less movement in the lever to shift, Sora you have to push the lever quite far. Certainly if well maintained, they all function well but personally I wouldn't go below Tiagra...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0
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Headhuunter wrote:I've had bikes with 2300, Sora, Tiagra and 105, admittedly from different years and I have to say there is a clear increase in performance at most levels. Sora used to have (still has?) the little thumb level rather than the lever behind the brake lever as others which some people don't like and Sora definitely didn't have the "feel" of Tiagra or 105, it has a less definite feel to it. I found that front shifting with Tiagra was a bit more clunky than in 105 and 105 requires less movement in the lever to shift, Sora you have to push the lever quite far. Certainly if well maintained, they all function well but personally I wouldn't go below Tiagra...
Sora 2013 doesn't have the thumb buttons anymore: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/s ... ook-33204/0 -
I bought my first road bike, a Giant Defy 3, with 2013 sora this year. Have no complaints, gear shifting is smooth with no massive jumps between rings. It's perfect for an entry level bike.0
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I'm using Sora (or is it 2300? the ones with the thumb lever) levers on my winter/wet bike albeit with Dura Ace derailleurs and Ultegra chainset/brakes, reason being its an old bike and only has a 7 speed cassette. Performance wise its flawless, shifts a treat, is accurate and has never missed a beat.
The place where it lets me down is comfort. The shape of the hoods is not ideal and certainly compared to my Campagnolo Super Record hoods, is far less comfortable. I would not want to be doing rides much more than 50 miles on these hoods.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
For those comparing with previous versions of Sora, this years version is much, much better than previous and includes the same shifting methods as the ranges above.0
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biggy7 wrote:great responses guys, many thanks
ive read Sora 3500 2013 is infact same as Tiagra 2011, is this true? (no thumb button)
ive just bought this bike: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moser-bikes-speed-sora-2013/
then i started to read about groupsets and now worried i made a mistake buying sora groupset
im only a beginner but am a firm believer of buying good value/quality product from the start instead of later on but my budget is max £500 at the moment, have i made a good choice?
Stop worrying over nothing - just get out and ride. You've bought it, can't change it and it'll be fine.
Life doesn't last long you know. 0 -
I'll weigh in on a general note - not exactly the right groups, but comparing Ultegra 6700 against an older sora with the thumb shifter. Once rolling along, it matters not one bit, and I forgot which gruppo i'm riding on. The cranks turn, the mechs, shifters and brakes sit there until called upon. When that time comes, the only perceptible differences, to me, are these..
The brakes, compared to Ultegra are not even close - could be any number of factors in the equation eg set up, cables, rims, pads, but there it is, my Ultegra are a lot better. I just brake earlier.
There is an awful lot more 'throw' in the shifters before anything happens. I just push it further.
In performance terms, none of the above really bother me too much. I think whichever you end up with would be ok, but if you're the kind who will always be wondering, just buy the best you can afford or justify to yourself..0 -
In terms of the cranks. Are they not stiffer? So you get more power transferred to the drivechain?0
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Might be. But I am a mere mortal... If i'm putting out enough to flex the crank, i'll be concentrating on not passing out and it'll probably pass me by..0
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just to finalise this thread, im cancelling my order of the Moser speed and have purchased a Giant Defy 1
cannot wait 0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:In terms of the cranks. Are they not stiffer? So you get more power transferred to the drivechain?
1. There might be an absolutely miniscule difference, but not one detectable by other means than hugely precise measuring apparatus.
2. Drivechain? I've heard of a drivetrain. I've heard of a drive chain too, but not a drivechain. 0 -
Simon Masterson wrote:2. Drivechain? I've heard of a drivetrain. I've heard of a drive chain too, but not a drivechain.
FFS :roll:"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
ih007 wrote:I'll weigh in on a general note - not exactly the right groups, but comparing Ultegra 6700 against an older sora with the thumb shifter. Once rolling along, it matters not one bit, and I forgot which gruppo i'm riding on. The cranks turn, the mechs, shifters and brakes sit there until called upon. When that time comes, the only perceptible differences, to me, are these..
The brakes, compared to Ultegra are not even close - could be any number of factors in the equation eg set up, cables, rims, pads, but there it is, my Ultegra are a lot better. I just brake earlier.
There is an awful lot more 'throw' in the shifters before anything happens. I just push it further.
In performance terms, none of the above really bother me too much. I think whichever you end up with would be ok, but if you're the kind who will always be wondering, just buy the best you can afford or justify to yourself..
I think what you have said is probably spot on and could see myself in a similar situation (if I had sub 105), feeling the same way about things.
The thing is that it still means the Ultegra is better and I would want it over the 2300.
People seem to take offence if you say that something is better than what they have, and they defend their item passionately.
Cables in front of lights = crap (I know as its like that on my MTB right now)
Having to push a lever a long way = crap
Having to brake earlier = crap
Why is the point you (people who feel this way) are at OK and anything better so insulting?
Would you guys be happy to have to push levers even further and brake even earlier?
Guessing the Voodoo dolls will come out if anyone dares to mention Di2 :shock:
Its funny how people are anti 105 but happy with lower groupsets that have trickle down features from the higher ones.
Are Campag and Sram all crap because they have concealed cabling?
Do you think tiagra will have exposed cables and thumbshift after the next revamp?0 -
I have a Spesh Allez triple 2011 here http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec025026 that came with everything 2300 to do with chainset. The Front Mech failed beyond repair after under 200 miles - replaced with a 105 from CRC mainly because it was on offer at about £12. Hasn't let me down after a few thousand miles.
Next I replaced the brakes with 105s as the Tektros it came with were pants. Like night and day - fantastic brakes. I paid about £60 for them and they can be had for less now and in black look really nice.
BB failed a couple of months ago and was able to pick up a new Sora chainset with BB for £30 from Merlin cycles. A new BB alone was gonna cost me at least £15 so was a bit of a bargain IMO. Replaced the rear mech with a Sora - again - a CRC bargain at £9.99.
Totally transformed the bike. I am going to be building up a very nice "best" bike soon and am going to go all 105 as I think it is the best "bang for buck" you can get in my experience.
Apparently Ultegra is only a couple of hundred grams weight saving although a couple of hundred quid more!
As others have said - it isn't so much what you have but how you use it and look after it.
My 2300 brifters work without fault and are probably the best part of the set up I got. I like the set up I have now I am extremely reluctant to sell the bike.0 -
Carbonator wrote:ih007 wrote:I'll weigh in on a general note - not exactly the right groups, but comparing Ultegra 6700 against an older sora with the thumb shifter. Once rolling along, it matters not one bit, and I forgot which gruppo i'm riding on. The cranks turn, the mechs, shifters and brakes sit there until called upon. When that time comes, the only perceptible differences, to me, are these..
The brakes, compared to Ultegra are not even close - could be any number of factors in the equation eg set up, cables, rims, pads, but there it is, my Ultegra are a lot better. I just brake earlier.
There is an awful lot more 'throw' in the shifters before anything happens. I just push it further.
In performance terms, none of the above really bother me too much. I think whichever you end up with would be ok, but if you're the kind who will always be wondering, just buy the best you can afford or justify to yourself..
I think what you have said is probably spot on and could see myself in a similar situation (if I had sub 105), feeling the same way about things.
The thing is that it still means the Ultegra is better and I would want it over the 2300.
People seem to take offence if you say that something is better than what they have, and they defend their item passionately.
Cables in front of lights = crap (I know as its like that on my MTB right now)
Having to push a lever a long way = crap
Having to brake earlier = crap
Why is the point you (people who feel this way) are at OK and anything better so insulting?
Would you guys be happy to have to push levers even further and brake even earlier?
Guessing the Voodoo dolls will come out if anyone dares to mention Di2 :shock:
Its funny how people are anti 105 but happy with lower groupsets that have trickle down features from the higher ones.
Are Campag and Sram all crap because they have concealed cabling?
Do you think tiagra will have exposed cables and thumbshift after the next revamp?
The problem is the advantages of 105 are not the ones you have identified.
Cables in front of lights might be crap but its a fact concealed cabling makes shifting stiffer and, in my opinion more "mushy" - give me external routing any day.
As for the length of travel for each shift its just down to the tuning of the mechanical ratios - a smaller throw on the gear change will inevitably require more force applied to the lever. Some might prefer a lighter feel and so might consider the 105 ratios to be crap.
And braking - I've never found much difference between calipers and levers - the ability to brake is mostly down to the pads in my my experiance.
In reality the advantages of 105 vs the others fall into two categories:
1) Cosmetics - through a better finish on the components and concealed cables
2) A microscopic difference in weight
I might add its possible the 105 cranks could be stiffer but to be honest I don't put out enough power to be able to tell so for me at least its a moot point.0 -
Hey biggy7, I changed my mind, just get the damn 2300 or whatever the one below that is called.
Its obviously great and all you need thanks to mugs like me who keep the companies in business and fund the R&D to allow it to exist in the first place.
Think I will have to go Campag on my next road bike. They really know how to make groupsets and start at about the 105 equivalent.
I am not sure how I will cope with the stiff gear changes due to all concealed cables though 0
