Aero wheel set sensible for my riding?

lacanuck24

So I'm looking to make an upgrade on my wheels and am trying to come to a decision but it's been a tough one due to my lack of experience.

Background, I ride a '12 Giant TCR advanced 2. No ambitions to race, just to enjoy the ride, get faster as I go, be healthy. The majority of my rides are doing many boring laps of a 4km loop, nice, safe, flat, bitching headwind on one side since it's right on the coast, tailwind the other way. Planning to explore more but the drivers of Korea don't really inspire me to explore the roads. Due to time, rides are limited to between 1-3hrs most days.

Anyway, I'm not crazy fast, call me slow, average about 25-30km/h on a good day, hoping to better that with time. I'd like to get new hoops and have been leaning towards the Mavic Ksyrium SLS wheel set. But since carbon is cool as hell, I've also been looking at the Giant P-SLR1 Aero and Zipp 303 & 404's. Practicality and price push me towards the Mavic's, plus what I can find to be an awesome reputation. The long desire and cool factor pushes me towards some sort of carbon aero set. Plenty of benefits/advantages but are they worth the price for my more fitness oriented riding? Again, zero ambition to race anywhere other then the bathroom.

I appreciate people tolerating my long winded post and look forward to your input!

sloppyschleckonds

Mavics are awesome

smidsy

Oh stop it!

Op - The answer to your question is not really. But since when did sensible come into it

Grill

If you want aero then stay away from Mavic. The sensible decision is to go with handbuilts, but if you want to go carbon then Reynolds Attacks or Assaults are a good shout.

imposter2.0

Just buy the wheels you want - and then get people to agree with you.

Mindermast

Aero-wheels are supposed to

- make it easier to ride at speeds beyond 25 mph, because of less wind resistance
- be more sensible to side wind than normal wheels
- be more heavy than normal wheels (but you find normal wheels which are a lot heavier than ligher aero wheels too, and there is carbon...)
- be stronger than normal wheels (composite rims such as Mavic cosmic carbone are probably as strong as the alloy rim only)

The first point is no problem if you are riding slower, you migth have some advantage with strong headwind.

The second point could be a problem, but I can't tell you, my highest rims are 30 mm, and I haven't got serious trouble with those.

The third point is complicated. With light wheels, you can accelerate easier, the weight of the wheels counts more here, due to the rotation. But slowing down - also by headwind - is easier too.

Putting it all together, your riding style doesn't require aero-wheels. Of course, this doesn't mean, that you can't have fun with them, and fun counts a lot! As for myself, I found, that ligther wheels helped me much more than semi-aero wheels. I switched from Mavic CXP23 with Ultegra hubs and 2mm spokes - 2.030 g, to Mavic Ksyrium Equipe, 1.732 g, slightly more aero because of the flatter spokes and less spokes. Both wheel sets are good, but they feel very different. It seems, that I can get to higher maximum speed with the ksyriums, but maintain a higher average speed with the other ones. Unfortunately, I knew the theory first, and never measured, therefore I could be wrong. The higher momentum of heavier wheels maintains speed, lighter wheels - less inertia - can be accelerated more easily.

sloppyschleckonds

I'd go with the perception theory.

thegreatdivide

Depth perception.

mroli

You'll better it with time and by riding. If you want to buy a set of wheels for the riding you do, buy the ones that make you happiest (within your budget). Be that handbuilts/mavics or eastons. If you love them, that's the battle won.

jane90

Grill wrote:

The sensible decision is to go with handbuilts

This seems to be a bit of a meme on this forum and I still don't undestand why. Could you explain the reasons exactly, please, Grill? Thank you.

cougie

I don't see how deep rim wheels can be less susceptible to side winds than normal wheels ? More material - more effect.
Just buy normal wheels if you live somewhere windy. Simple.

Grill

jane90 wrote:

Grill wrote:

The sensible decision is to go with handbuilts

This seems to be a bit of a meme on this forum and I still don't undestand why. Could you explain the reasons exactly, please, Grill? Thank you.

The biggest advantage to handbuilts is durability and cost. With a factory wheel it can very difficult and quite costly to sort spares and in many cases when/if the rim or hub wears out you can't replace them. Both Mavic and Shimano are a good example of this as they both make good wheels, but once you wear through a DA rim (which will happen quite fast) you're then stuck with hubs that you can't reuse as they're proprietary and Shimano won't sell you a new rim (if they did it would cost more than a new wheel anyways). Spare such as spokes and freehubs typically need to be ordered as well and are more expensive as well as taking a long time to arrive (I waited 2 weeks for a new Elite freehub).

There are some factory wheels that can be rebuilt using whatever hubs/spokes you like such as ENVE and Reynolds, but they're typically in the carbon clincher/tubular category. With handbuilts you'll end up getting more for your money and if/when a spoke goes at least you know you're not at the mercy of the distributor to replace it.

ugo.santalucia

jane90 wrote:

Grill wrote:

The sensible decision is to go with handbuilts

This seems to be a bit of a meme on this forum and I still don't undestand why. Could you explain the reasons exactly, please, Grill? Thank you.

If you scroll the workshop section, the parts of a bike most likely to give you troubles are in no particular order

1) Bottom brackets
2) gears and drivetrains
3) wheels

1) Fixing a bottom bracket typically costs 20 pounds in parts + labour (bearings or cups, depends on the system)... unless you go fancy with ceramic bits...

2) fixing gears ranges from 10 pounds for indexing to 60 pounds for cassette + chain...

3) fixing a set of factory wheels (the likes of Mavic, Shimano, Campagnolo and Fulcrum) can range between 10 pounds and 350 pounds or it can be impossible/impractical in many cases... the majority of cases if the damage involve the rim.
I guess that is the rationale to go for hand built wheels, that can be typically repaired for 10-150 pounds, from a re-true to a full rebuild on 2 new rims... the chances of the latter set being impossible to repair are pretty much zero... and you need to do something really nasty to make them impractical to rebuild

imposter2.0

The other side of the argument is that I have a couple of sets of 'factory' wheels (Easton EA70, Shimano DA C24) and have done thousands of trouble-free miles on both sets. The Eastons, in particular, are now 4yrs old, have been road raced, used for winter training and a full cross season with no problems at all - still as straight as the day they were bought. Now being used/abused on son's bike in youth races.

ugo.santalucia

Imposter wrote:

The other side of the argument is that I have a couple of sets of 'factory' wheels (1x Easton EA70, 1x Shimano DA C24) and have done thousands of miles on both sets. The Eastons, in particular, are now 4yrs old, have been road raced, used for winter training and a full cross season with no problems at all.

Of course... that is a possibility too... I have no idea how many Mavic wheels as a percentage get scrapped because they can't be repaired between year 2 when they're out of warranty and year 5 or 8 when they've had it... it could be 5% it could be 20%, it could be 50%... no idea.
I am also aware of shops that replace them free of charge outside the warranty period... if you are a long term good customer that can happen to you. Many upgrade their wheels as they change their wardrobe for the new season, hence the all hand built argument doesn't really stand up

iPete

I can go through the brake surface of a rim quite quickly, about 6 months, and having paid out for nice hubs it is good to know replacing the rim will be an easy task.

If I wear out the braking surface on my RS80s they'll no doubt have to go in the bin.

To the OP, just get the ones that look the best.

ianbar

if you want them and have the money buy them, same as anything with cycling you can spend a ruddy fortune but most of it will make very little performance difference. i know i spend way more than i should for my ability but i enjoy cycling and liek to have nice things, i have no aero wheels yet but certainly will have some by next spring i think.

DrWally

iPete wrote:

I can go through the brake surface of a rim quite quickly, about 6 months, and having paid out for nice hubs it is good to know replacing the rim will be an easy task.

If I wear out the braking surface on my RS80s they'll no doubt have to go in the bin.

To the OP, just get the ones that look the best.

how many K you manage to do in 6 months then?

iPete

About 5,033.3 miles so far, give or take a few not on strava

Do note I have to do a lot of stop/start & have one mechanical brake so that one rim does take a beating.

nferrar

If you don't race there's only two valid reasons for buying carbon deep section wheels, the looks and the noise. If either of those is enough for you to justify the cost then go for it, if not then don't bother.

Mindermast

You could go for the simple solution:

Get a set of ultra-cool aero-wheels and another set of long-lasting standard wheels, preferably not too heavy, since you mentioned a lot of stop-and-go.

It is not exactly sensible, but who cares?

pkripper

Just buy whatever you want, as long as it fits your frame and gearing it'll work, and it'll save the squabbling and misinformation that will just serve to confuse.

StillGoing

Go for lighter rather than deeper rims in my opinion. I have Mavic Cosmic Carbones and whilst they look nice, they weigh a ton and sudden cross winds can catch you out. I've just bought some carbon wheels that weigh considerably less than the Mavics (about 450g if the estimates are correct) and have no deep section rim to be blown about in the cross winds. They also cost less than the Mavics.

jane90

Thank you for your responses, Grill and Ugo. So if I understand it correctly you always advise buying handbuilts over factory wheels primarily on the basis of cost, as they're cheaper to repair? Am I right in understanding that you're making two assumptions here? First, that there is no quality difference between any (or all) factory wheels at a given price point and any (or all) handbuilt sets at the same price point (such that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference)? And second, that there is a good chance that a factory wheel will break, perhaps irreparably - or at least enough of a chance such that it should be the overriding factor when deciding to buy?

Grill

There is a difference in quality between factory wheels and you'll find lovers and haters of all brands. I find that the difference in quality becomes more apparent the higher up the price ladder you climb.

A handbuilt wheel has the same likelihood of failure as a factory wheel. A handbuilt will be quicker, easier, and cheaper to mend. When a handbuilt has exhausted the life of the rim or hub you can just get another which isn't something you can do with most factory wheels.

jane90

Yes, I was confused because that's what I would have assumed also, that there are discernable differences especially at the more expensive end of the scale. But then, surely, if that's the case, then the advice always to go for handbuilts would depend on how much the purchaser values the cheaper repair costs in the event of a failure against the difference in quality between the individual wheelsets?

I understand what you're saying about the ease of repair between the two types and I'd be interested to know what the general rate of failure of factory wheels was over, say, four years. If it was 5% for example, then I suppose to many people it would be a risk worth taking if they preferred a specific factory wheel. If it was closer to 50%, perhaps not.

Grill

The thing you have to realise is that everything breaks. You will find a higher instance of factory wheels failing as they have a larger market share. There's no rhyme or reason to most failures as they tend to be environmental as opposed to shoddy workmanship.

I, as well as many others, recommend handbuilts through experience with factory builds for the reasons that me and Ugo have already put forth. You can't base a purchase solely on the cost of repair (if that was the case I never would have bought RZRs), but the ability to personalise the build to suit your weight, program, and budget also plays a large part.

jane90

Now I'm properly confused!

I thought in your previous posts you were saying you always recommended handbuilts based on the cost of repair, but now you're saying it's because it's easier to personalise the build to your weight and budget? Sorry if I'm being a bit dense here.

Grill

Cost/ease of repair is not mutually exclusive to personalisation as reasons to go handbuilt. I led with cost because most people respond to money as a rationale.

jane90

Yes, I understand that. I also understand and accept all of your premises, I'm just trying to understand the process by which you arrive at your conclusion and I'm not sure I do, yet.

You stated your conclusion with a universal quantifier, i.e. the argument that it is better to buy handbuilts is always valid. But then you say that one of the two premises that leads to this conclusion doesn't follow ("You can't base a purchase solely on the cost of repair") so therefore the argument relies on both handbuilts being cheaper to repair AND the fact that you can personalise the build. But does this apply to everyone? For example, I'm a light rider, so what advantages would a personalised build offer me that would outweigh the potential advantages of a factory wheel that I might prefer?

Grill

With handbuilts you can opt for a lower spoke count which will in turn produce a lighter wheelset for cheaper than you could source a factory set of the same quality.