Wheel decisions

triathlonthomas

Evening all.

Recently upgraded my alu Giant TCR 1 by splashing out on a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX (the Ultegra di2 model).

I do a lot of fairly long weekend rides with mates (60-120 miles), plus sportives. Also going to use the bike for an Ironman triathlon in summer and will continue to use it for shorter triathlons in the future.

Question: is it worth upgrading the wheel set? Came with Ksyrium Elite S wheels, which are light ish and fairly stiff... but if I want to really get the most out of the bike, should I think about flogging them and putting the cash towards a super smart set (thinking something slightly more aero, perhaps unto 50mm, prefer clinchers) that might make a noticeable difference particularly with the triathlons / long rides alone or in small groups?

Grateful for any recommendations. Saw a set of Zipp 303 Firecrests on some chap's bike at Box Hill the other weekend - they look great; don't think I can extend the £2k though...

Hed's? Any other Zipps worth a look? Or am I throwing cash at a solution that won't really make a difference?

I've got a set of Ksyrium Equipes which I'll use as winter wheels if I get rid of the Elites.

Cheers

Grill

You'll have to spend a lot to get any sort of noticeable performance difference and it won't be with carbon clinchers (unless you're doing TTs).

smidsy

Don't worry about the wheels. You will get opportunty to change them in a few years when you can not get the current ones repaired economically.

ugo.santalucia

Everybody wants an upgrade that makes a difference. What the difference is exactly is not very clear. If you fit deeper rims and aero spokes you will save a few watts of wheels resistance as they rotate, someone quantified this in 3 or 4 minutes over an iron man, not a lot in a 12 hours event. In a normal triathlon aerodynamics won't make any difference if you are allowed to draft and of course during your sunday rides, a set of Zipp will only be something to talk about, as you will get to the cafe' at the same time with everybody else and they won't make you quicker up Box hill.
So, beside the tiny handful of minutes over a 112 miles course, you are left with an ego pleasing purchase, which is up to you to decide if it's worthy or not. It might well be if you are into bikes like I am.
Don't expect massive quality even at the 2 K price point, as beside a bit of technology in the rims, there isn't much there to justify the price tag

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... o-zipp-now

gaddster

You keep punting that example around like some sort of definitive evidence that all zipp wheels are atrocious. I'd even suggest your comments are potentially libellous as you've given very little detail regarding the type of use they had ie miles done, age, rider type, weather used in etc. Quite frankly I've had enough of reading your tripe Paolo, as a moderator you shouldn't be spouting your biased nonsense around like this.

Feel free to reply with more of your own special brand of the gutter press but I won't be reading it. It used to be you could educate yourself here but unfortunately it now seems to be populated with people like you. That's it, I'm done.

Grill

Libelous? Ha! Grow up dude, his observations are accurate. If anything you should be happy reading that you can actually rebuild the wheel with new spokes instead of chucking it. I don't think Ugo has ever said all Zipp wheels are atrocious, but their clinchers certainly are and the rest of their line is overpriced and heavy and even the great 808 out front isn't as fast as a (much) cheaper tri-spoke. Zipps are made for dentists and poser triathletes.

Camcycle1974

gaddster wrote:

You keep punting that example around like some sort of definitive evidence that all zipp wheels are atrocious. I'd even suggest your comments are potentially libellous as you've given very little detail regarding the type of use they had ie miles done, age, rider type, weather used in etc. Quite frankly I've had enough of reading your tripe Paolo, as a moderator you shouldn't be spouting your biased nonsense around like this.

Feel free to reply with more of your own special brand of the gutter press but I won't be reading it. It used to be you could educate yourself here but unfortunately it now seems to be populated with people like you. That's it, I'm done.

You can educate yourself on here as I have done, not least through reading Paolo's blog and posts. Not read too many of yours though????

Monty Dog

gaddster wrote:

You keep punting that example around like some sort of definitive evidence that all zipp wheels are atrocious. I'd even suggest your comments are potentially libellous as you've given very little detail regarding the type of use they had ie miles done, age, rider type, weather used in etc. Quite frankly I've had enough of reading your tripe Paolo, as a moderator you shouldn't be spouting your biased nonsense around like this.

Everyone I know with Zipps has had problems - they're over-priced, fragile junk - there I said it, go ahead and sue me!

ugo.santalucia

Gaddster, how can a post in a blog that is read by a few hundred people be a threat for a company that invest millions in advertising itself to the world? If anything a bit of criticism on a forum might help them to do better, instead of sitting on the laurels and gratifying themselves for winning half the races in the UCI calendar (due to sponsoring half the riders, of course). Most of their paying customers don't win races, they just want a nice set of wheels that help them achieve their PB on a time trial and that they don't have to pay twice when they break...
Is it asking too much?

Monty Dog

I'll just add, one of my ride buddies sold his Zipp 303s tubulars and bought some Enves - both Zipp rims broke, due to cracks starting from the spoke holes, not from impact damage. Another mate broke both rims hitting an expansion joint in the road during a TT. If you want some further real-world opinions head over to Weight Weenies where you'll find plenty of similar experiences.

markhewitt1978

For most people, including myself, Ksyrium Elite S wheels would be a massive upgrade. Problem is you start getting into diminishing returns where you have to spend a lot more money to get the same sort of improvements.

triathlonthomas

Thanks for the replies. Think I will hold off for now, see how the Elites fare and re-consider an upgrade if and when, down the line. Particularly if I get more into tris / TTs.

You're probably all right about diminishing returns.

DrWally

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you. Exactly the same bike, exactly the same goals.

I figured, the ksyrium elite's are pretty good alround wheels. I really love to climb and I usually go out training on hilly terrain (heavy rolling hills, unfortunately rarely long climbs, because not available in the near neigborhood). Hence, the ksyrium elites will serve me well there. Off course, it's not a 1200 gram carbon set. but at slightly below 1500gr (right?), on a fairly light bike, with me having reached a nice competitive weight, I don't see the use in spending way more on slightly lighter wheels.
so this covers a nice all round wheel, given their stiffness, even slightly geared towards 'climbing', or at least you won't have a noticable disadvantage on hilly terrain (unless you are a top pro for which every % matters)

off course, they are not deep rimmed! I simply don't have the money to buy REAL light deep rims. And I think it would take me to have A LOT spare savings to spend that type of money. If you are into triathlon and TT, deep rims defintely are benefitial. As long as you will not be doing iron mans with nasty climbs (lanzarote, Nice, ...? ), a couple of additional grams do not matter that much. Why not go for an additional set of wheels, a basic cosmic carbone version, which you get score for 750 euro (mavic carbone sl). They will give you the aerodynamic advantage you need during a TT.
On the other hand, if you are expecting to finish it in 12 hours +, i don't see the use in investing 750 euro for a marginal time gain.

I myself went for the dura ace C50's (tad more expensive than SL's), quite satisfied with them. I upgraded from fulcrum7, which obviously made a huge difference. Don't know whether compared to the mavic ksyrium elite the difference would have been SO obvious, however I do believe a deeper rim is always noticable, if it doesn't come with too much additional weight / lack of stiffness, which in the case of the c50's is fine. Also, they are clinchers with an alloy breaking surface (as are the SL's?), which for me, was an important factor as I did not want to go tubeless or constantly having to worry about trashing my rims while breaking. This is something personal.


combining your standard ksyrium elites with a "low budget" (that is very relative) deep rim carbon/alloy wheelset pretty much covers a lot of potential purposes. Especially the ones you listed. If in additional you hold on to some very basic (fulcrum7, in my case) wheelset for the rainy training days... i'd say, good to go, for a reasonable budget.

my personal thought on this. I'm sure lots of people differ opinion and think deep rimmed carbon / alloy clinchers are a waste of money.

smidsy

DrWally wrote:

I'm sure lots of people differ opinion and think deep rimmed carbon / alloy clinchers are a waste of money.

Ooh...ohh...me..me..I know this one!

Grill

Mavic Carbones have the aerodynamics of a brick. They're good training wheels if you ant more weight on the climbs.

DrWally

In that case I advise you to buy a pair of bricks. If I recall correctly they are significantly cheaper than the mavic's. Don't know whether they come in 11speed version already though.

Grill

DrWally wrote:

In that case I advise you to buy a pair of bricks. If I recall correctly they are significantly cheaper than the mavic's. Don't know whether they come in 11speed version already though.

QFT.

smidsy

Go old school hand built.

These are my latest arrivals.





Hope Pro 3 hubs, Alpina spokes and Pianni Sprint rims built by a true legend.

binkybike

I like them.

spasypaddy

Its always worth keeping an eye on the classifieds section on this forum for wheels. Always bargains to be had.

for example i have a pair of brand new 808s listed there and kiwidan has a pair of lightly used 606s listed.

Monty Dog

spasypaddy wrote:

Its always worth keeping an eye on the classifieds section on this forum for wheels. Always bargains to be had.

for example i have a pair of brand new 808s listed there and kiwidan has a pair of lightly used 606s listed.

Probably the archetypal mamil dentist / lawyer type whose got all tooled-up with all the gear and found trundling around the lanes at 25kph...realising that his expensive, fragile wheels don't count for much for normal riding except lightening their wallet.

ivanoile

So,Zipp's aren't good idea for buying? I had a chance to buy 202's for about 900€,1.5 year old,about 1000km.But I gave up,shortage of money
But this month I got something and I want to spend it on light wheels.I have Fulcrum R5 and they are realy nice wheels,they suffered many things on the road,but their weight is about 1800g.
So I've decided to find something light,sub 1400g.And it must be used or under 1100€.
There are so many wheels on the market,so many options and I've got lost.So could someone help me with this choice?

I've got about 65kg and I was thinking about max. profile of 45mm(winds are very often here).

Edit: I have offers for Marchisio wheels(something like T38),Bontrager Aeolus 5 and something from GIST Italia(full carbon 38mm front 50mm back)

Stu517

If you like Zipp 303's but dont want to splash that much cash out, then have a look at Fast Forward Wheels. Very well reviewed by both mag's and actual users.

I have a set of F6R Tubs and they are fantastic!

Going to be selling them shortly too.....need the cash to try and pay off my 202's!

cycleclinic

Of course lightening your wallet makes you lighter over all as you can afford to eat less. May that the biggest performance gain.

TOM14S

I have mavic SLS, supposedly as aero as a brick, but I enjoy doing hills. They suit me great, I like them, I also think the latest design is not as harsh ride as previous incarnations, I had a pair of deep section wheels that I sold as I preferred the lighter more responsive feel of the bike, plus on flat mile long flat knacker sections at speeds over where deep section are meant to offer the biggest gains I was seeing none so sold them. Being an engineer I have my theorys.

dazbo

For the kind of wheels and prices you guys are chatting about its worth taking a look at www.wheelsmith.co.uk IMO anything over a couple of hundred quid its worth going hand-built. I have velocity23s on my cross bike, and was going to go for gigantex 38mms from him too until i saw an offer too good to refuse on the classifieds.

Only downside i see is thats hes a victim of his own success and the order book is often closed.

If he's open at the moment give him a call, hes really helpful.


and no ... i'm not on commission