Mavic R-SYS SLR vs ZIPP 101

insanibasha
insanibasha Posts: 25
edited June 2013 in Road buying advice
I know that the Mavic R-SYS SLR is lighter and probably stiffer, but it has the aerodynamics of a brick. The ZIPP 101 however is heavier by a significant amount, but it's really aerodynamic; Competitive cyclist claims that it's 42 seconds faster than regular allow rims. So my question is, what are the advantages of both wheel and which one should I get to go on my Cervelo R3; I don't really do much climbing, so which wheel set would fit my riding style??? Please help
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Comments

  • declan1
    declan1 Posts: 2,470
    If you don't do climbing then get the Zipps.

    Road - Dolan Preffisio
    MTB - On-One Inbred

    I have no idea what's going on here.
  • Toby_W
    Toby_W Posts: 217
    I have an R3sl and used to have kysrium sls on it. Super stiff, very light but next in line for un aero after the R-sys. I got fed up going backwards on the downhills. I now have Dura ace CL24s. Amazing, lighter far more aero but not as stiff. The fly down hills and up them.
    If I was a bigger heavier and more powerful rider I'd probably have stuck with the sls. Choose the wheels that match your riding.

    Cheers

    Toby
    Dancing on the pedals
  • R-Sys poor at descending? I've heard it all now.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Toby_W
    Toby_W Posts: 217
    ?
    http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15505311.html
    About 12 watts difference according to these wheels tests from R-sys to my Dura ace c24cls. Crested a hill in a race a few years ago with two guys on identical bikes to mine, similar build, one with the same wheels as my new ones, the other had my old wheels on and he just went backwards.
    I'm talking long gentle descents, not technical and not steep.

    Cheers

    Toby
    Dancing on the pedals
  • dawebbo
    dawebbo Posts: 456
    Obviously the wheels then...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    Toby_W wrote:

    So basically waht the test says is that the Lightweight Obermeyer are as aerodynamic as an Emmenthal cheese form? :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Toby_W
    Toby_W Posts: 217
    I think so, only thing I've changed were my wheels. As a research engineer I take all stats with a pinch of salt (and single observations by punters) but the test linked, seeing the two guys coasting down the hill with me ( and one dropping back ) and the fact I can freewheel down hills without having to pedal to keep up with my friends doing the same seems compelling to me, and I'm just very lazy.

    Cheers

    Toby
    Dancing on the pedals
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    edited June 2013
    The heavier set up (bike/person/wheel combo) will freewheel down hill quicker. Nowt to do with the wheels specifically.

    Get the cheaper wheels and put the saved cash into burgers if you want to descend quicker.

    Edit: Burgers can be substituted for any weight gaining food of your choice. It's a win/win folks :)
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Toby_W
    Toby_W Posts: 217
    Depends on how steep the hill is but I like your thinking, swop burger for cake and I'm in.

    Cheers

    Toby
    Dancing on the pedals
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Two of my ride buddies have R-Sys wheels and they are laughingly poor on downhill freewheeling contests - one of our regular rides goes over the Southdowns with a long descent where you can easily exceed 60kph just by freewheeling....
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    I ride R-Sys, and have no problem staying at the front of our descending groups. I call bullsh*t on the whole aero bike/frame thing unless you are certain that *you* are in an optimum aero position. The CD contribution of the wheels and frame is highly unlikely to be material compared to the CD of my (wide) frame.

    For those who claim they've seen a difference, were all three riders the same size and shape, on identical frames of the same size and finishing kit, and in identically aero positions?

    It's even more absurd to be thinking about this for an R3, which, looking at the frame I just bought (but haven't yet ridden), makes no apparent concession to aerodynamics at all. Get an S3 if you're that bothered. Weight-wise, the R-Sys are pretty damn light for clinchers. I do notice the weight difference between mine and my Ksyrium Elite S dailies. Quite expensive if you bend 'em, though...
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    But what are they like up the hills? That's what really matters, at least to me.

    Oddly enough, I just made an enforced change from supposedly more aero Easton EA90SLs to Ksyrium SLSs due to spoke breakage and the need to get hold of reliable wheels in short order for the Maratona on Sunday.

    On the 3 rides I have done with them so far, I've been setting PRs on virtually every climb and more surprisingly PRs on descents as well so there's more to it than just being more/less aero. I think the SLSs corner much better and inspire more confidence to take them faster.
  • 964cup
    964cup Posts: 1,362
    edited June 2013
    The R-Sys (I can't speak for the SLRs; I have the carbon spokes front and rear) are fantastic up hills, that's why I bought 'em. With decent tyres and tubes you're at about 1800 to 1850g for the pair all up (e.g. Veloflex @ 195g per tyre, with butyl tubes at 75g and latex at rather less). IMO you notice every gram of rotational inertia when climbing. They're also properly stiff at the back, and still have aluminium rims for brake performance on the way down. You can go much lighter still with carbon tubs, of course.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    That is of course the counter argument. If you go quicker up the hill you do not need to be as fast down it, as you have already opened a big enough gap to compensate. :wink:

    Basically buy the ones you like the look of and be done with it.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • smidsy wrote:
    The heavier set up (bike/person/wheel combo) will freewheel down hill quicker. Nowt to do with the wheels specifically.

    If you want to roll down hills faster and for longer the heavy rims, tyres and tubes is the way to go.
    A lighter set up will always slow quicker due to the blah blah blah science stuff blah blah blah.

    Hope this helps explain it :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    smidsy wrote:
    The heavier set up (bike/person/wheel combo) will freewheel down hill quicker. Nowt to do with the wheels specifically.

    If you want to roll down hills faster and for longer the heavy rims, tyres and tubes is the way to go.
    A lighter set up will always slow quicker due to the blah blah blah science stuff blah blah blah.

    Hope this helps explain it :D

    It doesn't matter where the weight is - this has been covered many times...
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    A friend of mine has carbon spoked R-Sys wheels on his Canyon. I was, on a recent ride, twice following him at some distance on a descent. I had low profile Campag Neutrons on my bike. Our bikes are fairly close in weight but he is 1.5 stone heavier than me at 11 stone. Our riding positions were the same and neither of us were pedalling. All the time I gained on him. As the gradient increased, my rate of gain increased. By rights, his extra weight should have easily given him the advantage. I can only assume that the fat spokes of his wheels were what made the difference.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Imposter wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    The heavier set up (bike/person/wheel combo) will freewheel down hill quicker. Nowt to do with the wheels specifically.

    If you want to roll down hills faster and for longer the heavy rims, tyres and tubes is the way to go.
    A lighter set up will always slow quicker due to the blah blah blah science stuff blah blah blah.

    Hope this helps explain it :D

    It doesn't matter where the weight is - this has been covered many times...

    Yes it does but I can't be bothered to explain it as I am watching Heartbeat whilst Mrs. Potatoes is massaging my Quads :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Yes it does but I can't be bothered to explain it as I am watching Heartbeat whilst Mrs. Potatoes is massaging my Quads :D

    Sounds like you are disagreeing with Newton's laws of motion - good luck with that.
  • Imposter wrote:
    Sounds like you are disagreeing with Newton's laws of motion - good luck with that.

    I don't think I am but thanks anyway :mrgreen:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • TOM14S
    TOM14S Posts: 100
    Toby_W wrote:
    I have an R3sl and used to have kysrium sls on it. Super stiff, very light but next in line for un aero after the R-sys. I got fed up going backwards on the downhills. I now have Dura ace CL24s. Amazing, lighter far more aero but not as stiff. The fly down hills and up them.

    Cheers

    Toby

    How do you come to think the c24's are more aero? They're practically the same design profile. Nipples are slightly bigger on the sls I suppose?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    TOM14S wrote:
    [
    How do you come to think the c24's are more aero? They're practically the same design profile. Nipples are slightly bigger on the sls I suppose?

    Don't you smell a rat? I do... :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023
  • FatTed
    FatTed Posts: 1,205
    Sad to say Imposter is right
    If your talking acceleration that might be different.
    I used to have R-SYS but had no confidence in the carbon spokes so swapped fro racing zeros and HED C2
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    FatTed wrote:
    Sad to say Imposter is right
    If your talking acceleration that might be different.

    Who needs the application of science to prove a theory when you have 'what Charlie Potatoes thinks' and 'blah blah science stuff' instead? :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Rolf F wrote:
    FatTed wrote:
    Sad to say Imposter is right
    If your talking acceleration that might be different.

    Who needs the application of science to prove a theory when you have 'what Charlie Potatoes thinks' and 'blah blah science stuff' instead? :lol:

    Indeed Rolf :) And since when did anyone on here let science get in the way of the "facts" :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • Toby_W
    Toby_W Posts: 217
    I try to avoid getting in discussions like this doh :-(

    I am 100% convinced of the difference, I'd even stake my professional reputation on being able to demonstrate it with a simple roll down test backed with theory and maths from that paper to account for the few seconds/10metre difference at the bottom (I may even do this in case I'm being an idiot and it's always worth testing any conclusion thoroughly, not that it really matters, see below). I've put my reasons and argument in the earlier post.

    Regarding the wheels (DA & SL) they are both fantastic sets of wheels, each pair with slightly different strengths, the R-sys are lighter and I'd guess stiffer again than the SLs. Weight, aero, stiffness, looks, fixability, durability, cost, you can't have it all.

    Happy riding and if you have R-sys wheels smile again they look sublime.

    Toby
    Dancing on the pedals
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Toby_W wrote:
    if you have R-sys wheels smile again they look sublime.Toby

    I feel there lies the real conclusion.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028

    Indeed Rolf :) And since when did anyone on here let science get in the way of the "facts" :D

    probably since yesterday, when you claimed 'science' to support something which turned out to be wrong....
  • FatTed wrote:
    I used to have R-SYS but had no confidence in the carbon spokes so swapped fro racing zeros and HED C2

    Do you have a carbon frame, forks and bars etc etc etc?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    FatTed wrote:
    I used to have R-SYS but had no confidence in the carbon spokes so swapped fro racing zeros and HED C2

    Do you have a carbon frame, forks and bars etc etc etc?

    It's not the same thing... the amount and type of stress is not the same for a seatpost, a stem or a spoke. While frames and other components have now reached a state where there is very little difference in the rate of failure for carbon compared to steel or titanium (when carbon is properly built), the same cannot be said about spokes... there are not many carbon spokes on the market and their performance is far from convincing. R-SYS spoke breakages are routine... in fact among those I know who own a set (four), all of them had spokes snapping, so Fat Ted is correct to have little confidence in them. I don't think the technology is mature
    left the forum March 2023