Shimano groupsets

mrbrightside

I'm looking at purchasing a new groupset from the shimano family and airing towards dura ace 9000. However is DA twice as good as ultrega inline with the price?

I love the Ui2 due for the gadget factor and self trimming however my bike is electronic groupset equipped/compatible.

Then there SRAM Red - a significant weight saving over the DA, cheaper even when considering changing the bottom bracket.

sloppyschleckonds

Have you got a girlfriend/ wife who could make the decision for you?

Rod11

MrBrightside wrote:

is DA twice as good as ultrega inline with the price?

I've ridden Ultegra but not DA, but I can't see it being anywhere near as twice as good. As you go up the range, the performance benefits between each level decrease (roughly) so the price increase won't reflect this.

I would try out SRAM Red if you haven't already, at the very least just see how the levers feel. Realistically the difference between top end groupsets is going to be minimal, it's all about how each feels to you. Some people just prefer the fit of the levers of one or another.

Percy Vera

The only difference between 7900 (Dura Ace) & 6700 (Ultegra) is weight. Shimano didn't do a very good job with the 7900 groupset - the changing wasn't as good as 7800.

However, the 9000 Dura Ace is a whole new level - they have improved the changing and now its worthy of the Dura Ace badge

markwb79

To be fair, the pro's use the 9000 group set.

markhewitt1978

It would have to weigh no more than 0g for it to be worth the price increase over Ultegra on weight alone!

I guess it depends if you want your bike to be the best possible regardless of cost.

Mccaria

9000 mechanical is very good.

Wasn't a fan of 6700, liked 7900 but 9000 is definitely a notch up. Have bikes with 7900 and 9000 and both ride well, but the gear shifting on the 9000 is so easy and smooth, on the FD you feel you have to be over shifting it moves over so easily, but so far the shifting has been spot on. Interestingly for 9000 they gone back to a trimming function on the big ring, I assume because of the addition of the 11 cog.

If money is a concern It may be worth waiting for the new 11 speed Ultegra to come out as it will probably have many of the improvements passed down from the 9000.

Avit5

Mccaria wrote:

9000 mechanical is very good.

Wasn't a fan of 6700, liked 7900 but 9000 is definitely a notch up. Have bikes with 7900 and 9000 and both ride well, but the gear shifting on the 9000 is so easy and smooth, on the FD you feel you have to be over shifting it moves over so easily, but so far the shifting has been spot on. Interestingly for 9000 they gone back to a trimming function on the big ring, I assume because of the addition of the 11 cog.

If money is a concern It may be worth waiting for the new 11 speed Ultegra to come out as it will probably have many of the improvements passed down from the 9000.

No need to wait for Ultegra 6800 as you can already buy bikes with it fitted.

http://www.rosebikes.com/content/news/s ... tegra-6800

Mccaria

Thanks Avit5, hadn't seen any around yet. If 6800 follows the performance trend of 9000, but is just a little heavier, then I think it will be a heck of a groupset and a marked upgrade on 6700.

itboffin

I've got 7800 and tbh its not better than my 5600, last week i rode Ultegra Di2 and personally i think its pointless tech and no better than the 5600 & 7800.

I also have SRAM rival, Apex & various Campag Ergo, UT & PT imo there's much more difference between campag groupsets than Shimano & SRAM.

abondncfc

Ridden both Ultegra (not Di2) and DA 9000 recently - really like the DA - even managed to pull the front chain ring accross on a 15% hill I was not expecting which was impressive - also really quiet and smooth - its quite bit better and lighter as well but not twice as good but that is not how higher quality works relative to price - marginal gains!

Grill

Percy Vera wrote:

The only difference between 7900 (Dura Ace) & 6700 (Ultegra) is weight. Shimano didn't do a very good job with the 7900 groupset - the changing wasn't as good as 7800.

However, the 9000 Dura Ace is a whole new level - they have improved the changing and now its worthy of the Dura Ace badge

Errr... difference is night and day between 6700 and 7900. I have identical frames that are specced with both and 6700 doesn't hold a candle to 7900, especially in regards to braking and smoothness of shifts. 7800 was fine the amount of positivity on rear shifting wasn't necessary and it's not like 7900 is vague.

You're right in that 9000 is on a whole other level. Makes Di2 only necessary for TT bikes.

jasonbrim

Grill wrote:

Errr... difference is night and day between 6700 and 7900. I have identical frames that are specced with both and 6700 doesn't hold a candle to 7900, especially in regards to braking and smoothness of shifts.

I also have identical frames: one with Ultegra 6770 Di2 and the other with DA 7970 Di2. (The only other difference is the wheels, but I won't consider those in this comparison.)

7900 is much nicer overall. The shifting is more precise, the braking is more responsive. However, I really like the Di2 shifters on the Ultegra bike, as they have limitless shifting - the option to keep a button held down to shift across all the gears.

I haven't tried the new DA 9000, but it has the limitless shifting as well on the 9070. If you will use the bike a lot, DA is worth it, but then replacing parts is a lot more expensive (and buying the matching pedals). However, not all parts need replacing that often and the parts that do are the parts that can be replaced by Ultegra without reducing performance by much (cassette, chain).

I recently bought a compact c/s in preparation for a mountainous holiday, but I opted for 6700 due to the price saving. I will also replace my cassette with an Ultegra one when it goes as well. But the money I save will no doubt be put into something else!

It's mostly about what you want. DA looks great and has a bigger feel-good factor, but if your budget only stretches to Ultegra, then there is nothing wrong with that - it is still fantastic. But Di2 is a must

Sprool

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Have you got a girlfriend/ wife who could make the decision for you?

chris_bass

i know this is much lower end than you are looking at but might be useful to someone, i just ordered the new sora for a bike build i'm doing and i'm really impressed with it, other than under bar routing it seems to stack up quite nicely against 5700 105! makes me wonder who would get tiagra these days.

markhewitt1978

Chris Bass wrote:

i know this is much lower end than you are looking at but might be useful to someone, i just ordered the new sora for a bike build i'm doing and i'm really impressed with it, other than under bar routing it seems to stack up quite nicely against 5700 105! makes me wonder who would get tiagra these days.

Tiagra mostly seems to be for manufacturers to hit a desired price point. Especially since it's 10-speed compatible.
e.g. Trek 3.1 is mostly 105 but a Tiagra front mech, the only reason I can think of is they needed to reduce the build cost by £5 per bike..

unixnerd

The only difference between 7900 (Dura Ace) & 6700 (Ultegra) is weight. Shimano didn't do a very good job with the 7900 groupset - the changing wasn't as good as 7800.

Agreed, I have 7800 and it's far smoother than my other bike's 6700. I suspect a lot of this is due to the cable routing. I liked the machined and polished look of 7800 too.

DA9000 looks nice, but it's 11 speed cassette isn't compatible with a lot of existing wheels. So check it'll fit before you buy.

dennisn

MrBrightside wrote:

I'm looking at purchasing a new groupset from the shimano family and airing towards dura ace 9000. However is DA twice as good as ultrega inline with the price?

I think you have already answered your question. Buy the one YOU want.

As for twice as good? I think you know the answer to that one too.

markhewitt1978

It's all subjective isn't it? Is Dura Ace better than Ultegra? Yes.

How much better? Well if it allows you to finish a sportive 30 seconds faster then probably not worth it. If it allows you to finish a race 30 seconds faster then totally worth it.

Tenacious Doug

A slight hijack on the same topic.......
What about in the other direction how is the 6700 Ultegra v 5700 105? It's a while since I have purchased road groupset, the price of them seems pretty close (c.£150 if you shop around). How is the performance of the two and what are the key differences? Have always run older 105 in the past but with the small price difference the Ultegra is tempting!!

markhewitt1978

Tenacious Doug wrote:

A slight hijack on the same topic.......
What about in the other direction how is the 6700 Ultegra v 5700 105? It's a while since I have purchased road groupset, the price of them seems pretty close (c.£150 if you shop around). How is the performance of the two and what are the key differences? Have always run older 105 in the past but with the small price difference the Ultegra is tempting!!

The difference IME is worth the £150. On shifting the rear, probably very little difference, but I found shifting from the little to the big ring on Ultegra to be a breeze, way easier than 105.

(Based on riding a Trek 2.1 with 105 and Trek 3.5 with Ultegra)

mrbrightside

unixnerd wrote:

The only difference between 7900 (Dura Ace) & 6700 (Ultegra) is weight. Shimano didn't do a very good job with the 7900 groupset - the changing wasn't as good as 7800.

Agreed, I have 7800 and it's far smoother than my other bike's 6700. I suspect a lot of this is due to the cable routing. I liked the machined and polished look of 7800 too.

DA9000 looks nice, but it's 11 speed cassette isn't compatible with a lot of existing wheels. So check it'll fit before you buy.

Are fulcrum racing 3's 11 speed compatible? Presumably the cassette is wider??

Does going 11 speed more new wheels will be required. Will stick to ultegra if so...