Reluctant to keep up?

edhornby

There were two reasons for feeling unsafe that I could identify. One was just proximity at speed - I don't like tailgating people in a car since it's basically dangerous, and I couldn't shake the same feeling on the bike.
The other was the fact that I couldn't see ahead, and I didn't like that either.

it's completely this - until you coach someone to get them to appreciate the benefits of actually being on the wheel and that it's safe (and how) to do so, the new rider will just leave a 'nice safe gap'

Schoie81

Pituophis wrote:

smidsy wrote:

I've ridden around cheshire and this was the low route due to bad weather. Not exactly flat. I can only imagine the effort required for the Cat and Fiddle.

http://app.strava.com/activities/46811990

Never mind average speed, how did you manage to do 115.4 mi/h max speed? :shock:

Check out the date he did it.... practical joke??

jgsi

As I have the luxury of organising these low level weekly rides without the trappings of a formality that you might find clubwise , I can hopefully get people to overcome the hurdles of
keeping back or worrying about the person behind or in fact being able to work that bit harder, if they could just trust themselves.

SoSimple

bill57 wrote:

JGSI wrote:

These guys... both sexes, have done a lot of Spinning classes

Plenty people cheat at spinning classes. Can't hide on the road.

Couldn't agree more. After 4 years of spinning decided to 'get outside' and quickly realised that I'd been fooling myself. Interestingly I've only been spinning 3-4 times since getting my road bike and have just cancelled my membership.

StillGoing

Surely the purpose of an introductory group ride is to go at the pace of the slowest rider? At the end of it is when you're able to tell people they're too slow for certain groups or recommend them to a leisure ride group. We can't criticize people for having a go.

I was having a similar conversation today with a colleague. I ride with someone who is plainly fitter than I am and who buggers off in to the distance on rides as soon as the road goes up. He gets the benefit of sitting in my wheel but when he's on the front drops me fairly quickly so I'm forever playing catch up with him giving me no chance to recover. Now I don't have a problem with this unless he were to complain I was holding him up and in which case I'd be recommending he goes out without me. I know from my HRM that I'm spending most of a ride in Z4 so it isn't a case of being idle or uncomfortable at speed. At 51 and a relative newcomer to cycling with various muscular skeletal injuries, I know I'm making an effort and as long as I'm honest with myself I'm quite happy.

For me there are too many people who get hung up on being this or that average mph and for me spoils the enjoyment of the sport.

slowbike

philthy3 wrote:

I ride with someone who is plainly fitter than I am and who buggers off in to the distance on rides as soon as the road goes up. He gets the benefit of sitting in my wheel but when he's on the front drops me fairly quickly so I'm forever playing catch up with him giving me no chance to recover.

I ride quite a bit with a slower rider (my wife!) - we ride together to enjoy the ride - when the road goes up the ride slows down - the only time I'll go on ahead is when it's that steep that I need to put all my power and concentration into it ... then I'll wait at the top and stop until she is recovered.

I've only been on two club rides - the first one they called out that this hill was every man for himself and regroup at the top and the second one I maintained pace on the front on a slight incline only for the group to almost come to a standstill ... oops - guess my training worked then !

jgsi

philthy3 wrote:

Surely the purpose of an introductory group ride is to go at the pace of the slowest rider? At the end of it is when you're able to tell people they're too slow for certain groups or recommend them to a leisure ride group. We can't criticize people for having a go. .

These are NOT club rides!
I have to be careful as the bloke (yup , him, not his missus) might find it a bit daunting at the front for the few miles we warm up... he might think he is holding up the others.
I am probably going to change the format this week and stick to mile and half circuit that is by grace of God almost devoid of traffic and we can practise a few drills.
The guys know what they have signed up for by the way, to enjoy the bike as a means of improving fitness as well as having a bit of a laugh for an hour.

barrybridges

I have some thoughts on this, as I'm a lone rider who occasionally rides with a group, but who does most of my training without anyone.

I think it's a lack of faith in other people and the group.

What I mean by this is that it's actually quite difficult to follow someone's wheel closely if either you don't know them or don't trust them; and often the former leads to the latter.

On the Norwich 100 on Saturday I found myself riding 2-abreast in a group of maybe 20 (so 10 rows of 2). Every now and again I'd notice that the rider to my side was either much closer to the wheel in front of him that I was, or that sometimes I was much closer than they were.

Very rarely was I actually close enough to take full advantage of the drafting.

My rationale, looking back, was that I didn't know these people and I didn't know their riding style. And I do think it takes a certain leap of faith, as it were, to follow a wheel closely if you don't know someone or their ability well enough.

As a result, if you don't follow their wheel it's easy to lose contact, which sounds to me what's happened here.

roger_merriman

edhornby wrote:

There were two reasons for feeling unsafe that I could identify. One was just proximity at speed - I don't like tailgating people in a car since it's basically dangerous, and I couldn't shake the same feeling on the bike.
The other was the fact that I couldn't see ahead, and I didn't like that either.

it's completely this - until you coach someone to get them to appreciate the benefits of actually being on the wheel and that it's safe (and how) to do so, the new rider will just leave a 'nice safe gap'

The problem is that even at really modest speeds the thinking and stopping distances are longer than the gap. It's something roadies do but it does increase the risk. If its not a club run and folks aren't intending to be enspiring racers leaving a safe gap may well be a better choice.

hatch87

Just had a look at my first rides I ever logged. I was doing about 11-12 mph on 15 -20 mile routes. I now do 16-17mph on the same bike over 25 miles. It wasn't that I wasn't trying, I was just really unfit lol

jgsi

roger merriman wrote:

The problem is that even at really modest speeds the thinking and stopping distances are longer than the gap. It's something roadies do but it does increase the risk.e.

Risk..? at 12 mph..? don't think so.. you just have to engage brain.

Anyways last nights race at a local motor racing circuit which attracts a high % of novices highlights the desperate need for close quarter training.
Some of the riding skills were ATROCIOUS.
Key faults ... heads , therefore eyes down.. therefore unable to react properly thus leading to panic braking action.
I shan't rant on about the lack of NOT keeping line and I really dont appreciate having to go grasstrack because someone doesnt have the fitness or the nouse to be safe.
All this at speeds 25 to over 30 mph ..
I'm experienced, I admit .. but even I need to get to sodding work in the morning without a wrecked bike or knackrd shoulder :roll:

I maintain that every cyclist will at some point in their riding life be part of a group.

roger_merriman

JGSI wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

The problem is that even at really modest speeds the thinking and stopping distances are longer than the gap. It's something roadies do but it does increase the risk.e.

Risk..? at 12 mph..? don't think so.. you just have to engage brain.

hit the deck at 12mph and it will hurt, and that's if nothing else happens, such as other riders, and so on.

at 12mph you'll travel some 12foot before you pull the brakes and that's for a alert rider...

Mikey23

do you know of any evidence of safe thinking/stopping distances for cyclists? came up in another thread and i couldnt find any data...

roger_merriman

Mikey23 wrote:

do you know of any evidence of safe thinking/stopping distances for cyclists? came up in another thread and i couldnt find any data...

Thinking distance is going to be the same.

Bikes are not a uniform group in terms of braking, different types and frames plus the size weight of rider and so on.

Mind you a performance car can stop in the dry shorter than the Highway Code guide. As various car tests have shown.

These things are guides