money no object handbuilt wheelset

matt.rochfort

Any suggestions for a "bombproof" great looking handbuilt wheelset for fast rides/sportives - 90kg rider - any option considered. selling lots of bike bits etc to finance so money no object (almost)!!

pkripper

I would probably go for something like dt240 hubs, sapim cx-ray spokes, and hed Belgium rims.

Grill

Alchemy Hubs, ENVE Rims, Sapim CX-Rays.

FatTed

CK Hubs or Royce
HED Ardennes Rims
Sapim CX RAY

ugo.santalucia

Spending a lot of money won't necessarily buy you the best wheels... all this obsession for CX ray spokes is unfounded... if not paired with extremely stiff rims (like 50 mm carbon ones) they build disappointing rear wheels, especially for a heavy powerful rider.
If you want to stay on clincher, yes the HED Belgium are excellent rims and a bit more robust than the Ardennes someone mentioned... but are they better than Archetype? not sure... they cost twice as much that is for sure.
Royce hubs are a good investment and a nice way to spend a lot of money. I'd say you can have your dream wheels built for 600 pounds if you go the Royce route and a lot less if you go for a more humble option.
THen of course you can spend three times as much and get the Enve rims someone mentioned, but the clinchers will give you more drawbacks than joy for the riding you have in mind and the tubulars are probably not what you have in mind.
Remember a carbon clincher is structurally a Frankenstein... it needs a lot of strutural layers to compensate for the design flaws... good clinchers are easy to make for extruded metals and extremely difficult to get right with composites... it is the very nature of the material vs the section and function of the rim... carbon is not suitable for the job and any attempt to make it suitable is just a botch up with no particular merit... either too weak or too heavy to be anything more than a cosmetic upgrade

Camcycle1974

Law of diminishing returns. Spend £300 for a lightweight rim, decent hub and lightish spokes like Lasers or double that for the same rims, fancy hubs and expensive spokes. Weight saving maybe 200g and not where it matters most at teh rim. Good lightweight tyres/tubes will make more difference than the 200g saved by the hubs/spokes.

If it's purely cosmetic then its justifiable i suppose.

mfin

Got to agree with ugo on carbon clinchers, but most people are buying them for cosmetic reasons anyway and not much else. If people really want clinchers then its best to get normal rim not a 50mm, and if 50mm is insisted on then go for a fairing type 50mm like a Mavic... or one cheap enough if its all carbon that you are happy to replace if you smack them down a pothole.

Most 50mm clinchers are bought as an exercise in 'looking like a pro's bike' but actually taking away all the advantages of tubs and the fact that 50mm carbon tub wheels are manufactured in a way that makes sense.

thegreatdivide

Mostly what mfin and ugo said.

If you get into Zipp FC and Enve Smart System carbon clincher territory then you can save weight and reap a bit of aero benefit, but sticking some Chris King hubs on a Gigantex rim and de rigueur CX Ray spokes will just get you a show clincher. If that’s what you want then by all means go for it, it’s the OP’s $$$.

I’m a complete tub convert btw ;-)

drlodge

matt.rochfort wrote:

Any suggestions for a "bombproof" great looking handbuilt wheelset for fast rides/sportives - 90kg rider - any option considered.

Except for the weight (I'm 75kg), this is pretty much what I was looking for. CX-ray spokes are a waste of money for this application, and I don't think for sportives you want to be going for carbon tubulars either. So that leads you to good quality alloy clinchers, nice hubs and suitable spokes. I don't think you want laser spokes on the rear wheel either, they're not up to the job. And at your weight, I'd be looking at 32 spokes.

My wheels:
- Record Hubs 32H, Excellight rims, laser/race spokes. GP4000S 23c with supersonic tubes

My suggestion for you:
- Royce Hubs 32H, Archetype rims (or other per your preference), Race spokes. possibly lasers on the front. Same tyres/tubes as me.

Who's gonna build them, why not ask him?

thegreatdivide

drlodge wrote:

matt.rochfort wrote:

Any suggestions for a "bombproof" great looking handbuilt wheelset for fast rides/sportives - 90kg rider - any option considered.

Except for the weight (I'm 75kg), this is pretty much what I was looking for. CX-ray spokes are a waste of money for this application, and I don't think for sportives you want to be going for carbon tubulars either. So that leads you to good quality alloy clinchers, nice hubs and suitable spokes. I don't think you want laser spokes on the rear wheel either, they're not up to the job. And at your weight, I'd be looking at 32 spokes.

My wheels:
- Record Hubs 32H, Excellight rims, laser/race spokes. GP4000S 23c with supersonic tubes

My suggestion for you:
- Royce Hubs 32H, Archetype rims (or other per your preference), Race spokes. possibly lasers on the front. Same tyres/tubes as me.

Who's gonna build them, why not ask him?

Why? All you need is a can of Pit Stop (or Stan's if you have removable cores) and if you want to be extra safe a spare lightweight tub like a 160g Tufo. Tubs work!

mfin

thegreatdivide wrote:

Mostly what mfin and ugo said.

If you get into Zipp FC and Enve Smart System carbon clincher territory then you can save weight and reap a bit of aero benefit, but sticking some Chris King hubs on a Gigantex rim and de rigueur CX Ray spokes will just get you a show clincher. If that’s what you want then by all means go for it, it’s the OP’s $$$.

I’m a complete tub convert btw ;-)

I think even the Zipp FC / Enve Clinchers are like buying a ferrari with some pointless stuff lobbed on from halfords to make it worse. 50mm clinchers have only really come about because they are sell-able, not because they make sense. They're for people who want the 'look' at all costs but can't get past the brain-freeze of changing a tub.

As much as they're not for me, the Mavic fairing way of doing it onto a normal wheel makes more sense, but some people even steer clear of these cos they don't think they're getting a 'full carbon's worth of 50mm'.

There's also a lot of people jumping on 50mm clinchers as a first wheel upgrade, who aren't even aware of how much difference a good set of regular wheels will be, and for some of them who aren't riding fast enough to benefit from the 'aeroness', regular clinchers a lot lighter than 50mm clinchers would actually improve their speeds more. At least you can benefit from stiffness and the increased weight difference they'd give you when going 6mph up a hill. Of course, you won't look like Bradley Wiggins or whoever, but Bradley Wiggins wouldn't be riding 50mm clinchers either.

By the way I think 50mm clincher wheels on bikes DO 'look' great, but I also think girl's summer dresses look great and I wouldn't buy any of them for myself either.

thegreatdivide

AG2R use Reynolds carbon clinchers.

pippi_langsamer-2

I'd go for Mavic Cosmic Carbones. "Bomb Proof" (whatever the feck that's supposed to mean anyway), and best of all worlds- look great, dependable aluminium rim, fast.

They're not handbuilt, but so what?

They're not the lightest, but so what? Unless you're riding in the Alps, you'll notice little difference. Any negative will be turned into positive on the descents anyway

I dont own said wheels as I no longer race or do Sportives, but if I was to venture back into the world of "competition", i'd probably go Carbones....

thegreatdivide

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

I'd go for Mavic Cosmic Carbones. "Bomb Proof" (whatever the feck that's supposed to mean anyway), and best of all worlds- look great, dependable aluminium rim, fast.

They're not handbuilt, but so what?

They're not the lightest, but so what? Unless you're riding in the Alps, you'll notice little difference. Any negative will be turned into positive on the descents anyway

I dont own said wheels as I no longer race or do Sportives, but if I was to venture back into the world of "competition", i'd probably go Carbones....

Until you get a double blow out from the braking heat.

pippi_langsamer-2

thegreatdivide wrote:

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

I'd go for Mavic Cosmic Carbones. "Bomb Proof" (whatever the feck that's supposed to mean anyway), and best of all worlds- look great, dependable aluminium rim, fast.

They're not handbuilt, but so what?

They're not the lightest, but so what? Unless you're riding in the Alps, you'll notice little difference. Any negative will be turned into positive on the descents anyway

I dont own said wheels as I no longer race or do Sportives, but if I was to venture back into the world of "competition", i'd probably go Carbones....

Until you get a double blow out from the braking heat.

On an aluminium rim? Far less likely to happen than with a full carbon clincher. I'd plop myself on a true alpine descent on full carbon clinchers!

And lets face it, how often does that happen anyway

Monty Dog

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

I'd go for Mavic Cosmic Carbones. "Bomb Proof" (whatever the feck that's supposed to mean anyway), and best of all worlds- look great, dependable aluminium rim, fast.

They're not handbuilt, but so what?

They're not the lightest, but so what? Unless you're riding in the Alps, you'll notice little difference. Any negative will be turned into positive on the descents anyway

I dont own said wheels as I no longer race or do Sportives, but if I was to venture back into the world of "competition", i'd probably go Carbones....

Until you get a double blow out from the braking heat.

On an aluminium rim? Far less likely to happen than with a full carbon clincher. I'd plop myself on a true alpine descent on full carbon clinchers!

And lets face it, how often does that happen anyway

Remarkable common phenomena with hybrid rims because of poor heat dissipation to the degree that Zipp suggest you don't use latex tubes. It's particularly prevalent on events like Marmotte where folks were riding their brakes the Galibier.

pippi_langsamer-2

Monty Dog wrote:

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

I'd go for Mavic Cosmic Carbones. "Bomb Proof" (whatever the feck that's supposed to mean anyway), and best of all worlds- look great, dependable aluminium rim, fast.

They're not handbuilt, but so what?

They're not the lightest, but so what? Unless you're riding in the Alps, you'll notice little difference. Any negative will be turned into positive on the descents anyway

I dont own said wheels as I no longer race or do Sportives, but if I was to venture back into the world of "competition", i'd probably go Carbones....

Until you get a double blow out from the braking heat.

On an aluminium rim? Far less likely to happen than with a full carbon clincher. I'd plop myself on a true alpine descent on full carbon clinchers!

And lets face it, how often does that happen anyway

Remarkable common phenomena with hybrid rims because of poor heat dissipation to the degree that Zipp suggest you don't use latex tubes. It's particularly prevalent on events like Marmotte where folks were riding their brakes the Galibier.

Disc brakes it is then

pkripper

If you drag your brakes on an alpine descent then you probably shouldn't be there in the first place!

Monty Dog

When L'etape de Tour was based on the Marmotte route a few years ago starting at Bourg, a number of participants staying in Alpe d'Heuz failed to make the start line because they had double blow-outs on the descent for this reason. The rationale to use heavier, more expensive and less durable wheels is beyond me.

Zoomer37

I reckon we should all chip in and get mfin a set of 50mm clinchers for his birthday.

ugo.santalucia

Zoomer37 wrote:

I reckon we should all chip in and get mfin a set of 50mm clinchers for his birthday.

I'll make an exception to the "no carbon clincher rule" and build them...

smidsy

mfin wrote:

[As much as they're not for me, the Mavic fairing way of doing it onto a normal wheel makes more sense, but some people even steer clear of these cos they don't think they're getting a 'full carbon's worth of 50mm'.

That is because you are not.

If you have seen the video clip on here (can't find it now) of the fairing coming away from the aluminium rim you would understand that.

Overpriced junk.

ugo.santalucia

smidsy wrote:

mfin wrote:

[As much as they're not for me, the Mavic fairing way of doing it onto a normal wheel makes more sense, but some people even steer clear of these cos they don't think they're getting a 'full carbon's worth of 50mm'.

That is because you are not.

If you have seen the video clip on here (can't find it now) of the fairing coming away from the aluminium rim you would understand that.

Overpriced junk.

The Cosmic are like Marmite, Piccalilly and pickled eggs, they don't make much sense, they don't have much to go for, but a lot of people actually like them... and that is even after they have actually ridden them...

smidsy

At least Marmite, Piccallili and pickels eggs all perform their desired function without fault :-)

ugo.santalucia

smidsy wrote:

At least Marmite, Piccallili and pickels eggs all perform their desired function without fault :-)

How about Calvados then, Red Bull or Kopparberg cider? Utterly disgusting things, but with plenty of fans

smidsy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

smidsy wrote:

At least Marmite, Piccallili and pickels eggs all perform their desired function without fault :-)

How about Calvados then, Red Bull or Kopparberg cider? Utterly disgusting things, but with plenty of fans

Again I have yet to see any broken ones

mroli

Don't people like cosmic carbones because they make that nice whooshing sound? Riding last weekend, someone was overtaking with them on and the bloke in front of me called "car up" because of the noise...

mfin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zoomer37 wrote:

I reckon we should all chip in and get mfin a set of 50mm clinchers for his birthday.

I'll make an exception to the "no carbon clincher rule" and build them...

Ah, ta!!! Can I have a bum-bag for my saddle too please, a pump to strap on the frame and a replica team kit, if its a bit much it could be a combined xmas and bday present, I dont mind

cycleclinic

Persoanlly my ideal wheelset would involve Campag record hubs (fit a shimano freehub body if needed) on rims like the archetype or if tublar are desired something from the ambrosio stable, with spokes to sit the rider. Deep rims only make sense for those who can sustain 25mph+ most people can't for 40 miles or more so what's the point apart from the look.

NWLondoner

thecycleclinic wrote:

Persoanlly my ideal wheelset would involve Campag record hubs (fit a shimano freehub body if needed) on rims like the archetype or if tublar are desired something from the ambrosio stable, with spokes to sit the rider. Deep rims only make sense for those who can sustain 25mph+ most people can't for 40 miles or more so what's the point apart from the look.

What he said

I've just received a set of RR415 laced with 32/32 lasers on a pair of Record Hubs, with an 11 speed HG freehub.

I almost went with a heavier rim but less spokes and cheaper hubs. I'm glad i didn't

These wheels come in at around 1600 but the weight is in the right place i.e the hubs.

Not bad for an all year use wheelset.

Took them for their first spin today and these flew. Even with my heavy winter tyres Conti 4 seasons they were faster than my Easton EA90's that they were replacing. They also didn't feel as harsh.

Also not having to contend with crosswinds hitting the aero rims and bladed spokes will also be a godsend.

Motto, buy the wheelset that suits your needs and NOT the amount you want to throw at them.


p.s nothing wrong with carbon clinchers if used in the correct geography. For Saturday/Sunday rides in the summer they are superb. They really do smooth out the rough roads.

neeb

I've got some hand-built Reynolds 32 carbon clinchers with a powertap G3 in the rear. I did a lot of thinking before getting these for all of the reasons mentioned, and I can see how a lot of people would think they represent the worst of both worlds. 32mm is not in seriously aero territory, while at the same time you have the potential disadvantages of reduced braking in the wet and possible failure with extreme braking on descending. However, for me they are perfect all-round, multi-purpose wheels, which is what I needed given that I want to use the powertap all of the time. I didn't want deeper section wheels because I didn't want the extra weight and susceptibility to crosswinds on all-purpose wheels. What it came down to was this - I could have got alu clincher rims that were equally deep, equally stiff or equally light, but not all three together, and as I was spending a fair bit of money on the powertap and would be riding at least the rear wheel all of the time, I didn't want to compromise. I'm extremely happy with these wheels, they are stiff, light, reliable, at least marginally aero, ride great and look great. I had the rear built with 28 spokes to help with stiffness as I had heard bad things about the powertap hub not making for stiff wheels, but it's been absolutely fine (for my 62kg at least). For rides in extremely wet conditions or with long, steep descents I just swap out the front wheel for an alu rimmed Eurus to be on the safe side.

I guess what I'm saying is that the perfect set of wheels for you depends on a lot of interacting factors and compromises and that there are few valid generalisations.